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Praying on Animals

ZoxsasiZoxsasi
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Hi,

Today, in Paris, this has appeared on the news:

http://eglisesainterita.free.fr/

If you can't read French, its about a parish where  they have Holy LITURGIES to pray and bless animals.

So, the bishop there prays on 100's of cats and dogs and birds (even horses) that come to the Parish or into the Church.

Is this something OK to do or not??

Can priests/bishops "bless" animals"

What happens when an animal receives a blessing?

Can we pray that animals are healed? (if they are ill)?

OK.. fair enough, the priest isn't praying on a dead animal; that's true - but what about the rest?

Thanks

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Comments

  • TITLTITL
    Forget the bishops praying on animals... they're wearing neon PINK!!  :o

  • christ_rosechrist_rose
    I dont really know about what you are saying in France. But i do know that a priest told me that we have a prayer for dead animals.
  • imikhailimikhail
    This is not ok in the Orthodox Church. We pray for the good health of the animals that provide a food source for the human.
  • peter_saadpeter_saad
    “You are to be my holy people. So do not eat the meat of an animal torn by wild beasts; throw it to the dogs." Exodus 22:31

    I'm not saying that God hates dogs, but I don't think they deserve to have their own service. It's ridiculous.. Just another reason we're not Roman Catholic haha
  • christ_rosechrist_rose
    what im saying is that there is a Coptic Orthodox Prayer for dead animals. A hegumen just told me that about a month ago
  • peter_saadpeter_saad
    I don't think it's wrong to have a prayer for them, but having a full service is just a little overkill, in my opinion.
  • imikhailimikhail
    [quote author=christ_rose link=topic=12546.msg147197#msg147197 date=1320790611]
    what im saying is that there is a Coptic Orthodox Prayer for dead animals. A hegumen just told me that about a month ago


    Which prayer is that?
  • George_Mina_Awad
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12546.msg147203#msg147203 date=1320796449]
    [quote author=christ_rose link=topic=12546.msg147197#msg147197 date=1320790611]
    what im saying is that there is a Coptic Orthodox Prayer for dead animals. A hegumen just told me that about a month ago


    Which prayer is that?


    That does sound a little bit strange, especially if animals lack an eternal soul.
  • abrahamfabrahamf
    "A merciful heart — is a heart afire for all creation: for people, bird, animals, (even) for demons and all of God’s creations. At the recollection of them or at looking at them, the eyes of the person shed tears. From a great compassion, his heart is moved and he is unable to hear or witness any type of harm or even minor sorrow that the creatures endure. That is why he is continually praying for the irrational animal, for the enemies of the truth and those that have brought him harm, so that they would be saved and granted mercy. And he prays for the dumb animal with such great sorrow, which his heart evokes, that it is without bounds and akin in all respect to God’s." + St. Isaac the Syrian+

    "(The saint's) consideration extends even to animals and to things, because in every
    creature he sees a gift of God's love, and does not wish to wound that love by
    treating His gifts with negligence or indifference." + Fr Dimitru Staniloae +

    So, I think it's alright to pray for all of God's created creatures, out of one's burning love for God. However, I think to dedicate an entire service just to bless pets and animals might be to excessive.
  • George_Mina_Awad
    Now that I think of it, I remember hearing about a homily by St. John Chrysostom where he said that the Christ Himself was even merciful toward the animals, which is why He asked for two donkeys instead of one before His entry into Jerusalem- so as not to overwork the one.
  • christ_rosechrist_rose
    I will ask that priest and i will let u know. it came up in a conversation a while back. ill find out.
  • christiangirlchristiangirl
    It seems very weird to pray over animals because that is a waste of time to pray for animals because God cares more for people than to waste prayers on animals instead of people.  That would be considered as insulting God.  What religion was doing this anyway?
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    Attributed to St. Basil the Great are two beautiful prayers for Animals:
    The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof.
    O God, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers the animals to whom Thou gavest the earth as their home in common with us.
    We remember with shame that in the past we have exercised the high dominion of man with ruthless cruelty so that the voice of the earth, which should have gone up to Thee in song has been a groan of travail.
    May we realize that they live not for us alone, but for themselves and for Thee and that they love the sweetness of life even as we, and serve Thee better in their place than we in ours. (5) (5A)

    For those, O Lord, the humble beasts, that bear with us the burden and heat of day, and offer their guileless lives for the well-being of mankind; and for the wild creatures, whom Thou hast made wise, strong, and beautiful, we supplicate for them Thy great tenderness of heart, for Thou hast promised to save both man and beast, and great is Thy loving kindness, O Master, Saviour of the world. (5)

    Source

  • abrahamfabrahamf
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12546.msg147296#msg147296 date=1320906084]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    Attributed to St. Basil the Great are two beautiful prayers for Animals:
    The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof.
    O God, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers the animals to whom Thou gavest the earth as their home in common with us.
    We remember with shame that in the past we have exercised the high dominion of man with ruthless cruelty so that the voice of the earth, which should have gone up to Thee in song has been a groan of travail.
    May we realize that they live not for us alone, but for themselves and for Thee and that they love the sweetness of life even as we, and serve Thee better in their place than we in ours. (5) (5A)

    For those, O Lord, the humble beasts, that bear with us the burden and heat of day, and offer their guileless lives for the well-being of mankind; and for the wild creatures, whom Thou hast made wise, strong, and beautiful, we supplicate for them Thy great tenderness of heart, for Thou hast promised to save both man and beast, and great is Thy loving kindness, O Master, Saviour of the world. (5)

    Source




    Hmmmmmm.....are you sure that this prayer is 100% attributed to St. Basil?
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    No, I'm not 100% sure. I will look into it more though.
  • imikhailimikhail
    This supposedly prayer on animals is getting out of hand.

    There is no liturgical prayers for animals whatsoever except the we pray in the seven short litanies .. when we ask the Lord to save the cattle as a source of food.
  • abrahamfabrahamf
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12546.msg147317#msg147317 date=1320939653]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    No, I'm not 100% sure. I will look into it more though.


    Please do and let us know, because I've never heard of animals being saved :o
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier

    I'm pretty sure its part of patristic tradition, the whole world fell with us not just humans so the fall has significance for the whole creation.  Our first job was to tend the garden and we didn't do it because of sin.  Salvation doesn't just mean redemption from death, it can also mean healing or restoration.  Its the reason why some saints used to live in peace with animals, the brought the salvation of God in their lives to the world around them and it was restored to its former harmony and peace.
  • abrahamfabrahamf
    [quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12546.msg147333#msg147333 date=1320956921]
    [quote author=Christs' servant link=topic=12546.msg147332#msg147332 date=1320956633]
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12546.msg147317#msg147317 date=1320939653]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    No, I'm not 100% sure. I will look into it more though.


    Please do and let us know, because I've never heard of animals being saved :o


    I'm pretty sure its part of patristic tradition, the whole world fell with us not just humans so the fall has significance for the whole creation.  Our first job was to tend the garden and we didn't do it because of sin.  Salvation doesn't just mean redemption it can also mean healing or restoration.  Its the reason why some saints used to live in peace with animals, the brought the salvation


    Hmmm, interesting. Do you mean that the Saints brought salvation to the animals (i.e restoration of their original peaceful nature, through their Union with God)?

    Explains why some Saint where able to tame wild beast.
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier
    lol yes, just as I was trying to amend the post. Man is like a kind of mediator between the rest of creation and God where God's presece is felt in creation through us.
  • imikhailimikhail
    [quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12546.msg147333#msg147333 date=1320956921]

    I'm pretty sure its part of patristic tradition, the whole world fell with us not just humans so the fall has significance for the whole creation.  Our first job was to tend the garden and we didn't do it because of sin.  Salvation doesn't just mean redemption from death, it can also mean healing or restoration.  Its the reason why some saints used to live in peace with animals, the brought the salvation of God in their lives to the world around them and it was restored to its former harmony and peace.


    If it were part of the patristic tradition, we would have found some liturgical notion of this .. either a hymn, litany, .....

    There is nothing in the Church to indicate any prayer that is dedicated to animals. The idea in itself is absurd and is against the idea of humankind restoration through redemption.

    The consequences of the fall was never eliminated, hence mortal death and corruption, enmity between man and beast, ... What redemption did was to restore man to eternal life enjoying God's presence.

    Again, we pray for the herbs of the field, the air, the cattle for our sustenance.
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12546.msg147339#msg147339 date=1320969688]
    [quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12546.msg147333#msg147333 date=1320956921]

    I'm pretty sure its part of patristic tradition, the whole world fell with us not just humans so the fall has significance for the whole creation.  Our first job was to tend the garden and we didn't do it because of sin.  Salvation doesn't just mean redemption from death, it can also mean healing or restoration.  Its the reason why some saints used to live in peace with animals, the brought the salvation of God in their lives to the world around them and it was restored to its former harmony and peace.


    If it were part of the patristic tradition, we would have found some liturgical notion of this .. either a hymn, litany, .....

    There is nothing in the Church to indicate any prayer that is dedicated to animals. The idea in itself is absurd and is against the idea of humankind restoration through redemption.

    The consequences of the fall was never eliminated, hence mortal death and corruption, enmity between man and beast, ... What redemption did was to restore man to eternal life enjoying God's presence.

    Again, we pray for the herbs of the field, the air, the cattle for our sustenance.

    I agree, my point is simply that the prayer which we pray for the creation from the liturgy which you've referenced above is one of our acts of mediation with God so that He will sanctify His creation.  You're quite correct this is very different to praying for animals or asking for a blessing for them.

    The work of God in saints to bring unity between them and the animals is a kind of a prophecy about the unity which will exist between not just the saints and creation but all of us once God's salvation has fully come and He is totally present among us.

    [quote=Isaiah 11:6-9]The wolf will live with the lamb,
      the leopard will lie down with the goat,
    the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
      and a little child will lead them.
    The cow will feed with the bear,
      their young will lie down together,
      and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
    The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
      and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
    They will neither harm nor destroy
      on all my holy mountain,
    for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD
      as the waters cover the sea.
  • imikhailimikhail


    The work of God in saints to bring unity between them and the animals is a kind of a prophecy about the unity which will exist between not just the saints and creation but all of us once God's salvation has fully come and He is totally present among us.

    Once salvation has been fully realized, there will be no animals in existence as no animals are "allowed" in God's Kingdom.

    The prophecy describes what the peace will be between the soul and the flesh in heaven as St Makarius explained.
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12546.msg147345#msg147345 date=1320973301]


    The work of God in saints to bring unity between them and the animals is a kind of a prophecy about the unity which will exist between not just the saints and creation but all of us once God's salvation has fully come and He is totally present among us.

    Once salvation has been fully realized, there will be no animals in existence as no animals are "allowed" in God's Kingdom.

    The prophecy describes what the peace will be between the soul and the flesh in heaven as St Makarius explained.


    Agreed.
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    A selection of sayings, writings and accounts of lives of Church Fathers & Saints witnesses to the Orthodox Church's tradition of care for Creation (and, by default, animals).

    St. Ambrose of Milan (340 - 397)

    No duty is more urgent than that of returning thanks.

    Again, consider the fact that it is the serpent and not man who is cursed. And the earth is not cursed in itself, but is "cursed in your work" (Genesis 3:17, John 6:50). This is said in reference to the soul. The earth is cursed if your works are earthly, that is, of this world. It is not cursed as a whole. It will merely bring forth thorns and thistles if it is not diligently cared for by the labor of human hands.

    Enter with me into this mighty and wonderful theater of the whole of visible creation. Not slight is the service rendered to strangers by one who watches for their arrival with the intent to conduct them on a tour around the city and to point out to them the more notable monuments. How much more ought you to welcome one who, as I do, conducts you in this assembly by the guiding hand of my discourse through your own native land and who points out to you each and every species and genus, with the desire to show you from all these examples how the Creator of the universe has conferred more abundant benefits on you than on all the rest of His creatures.... While you share with the rest of creatures your corporeal weakness, you possess above and beyond all other creatures a faculty of the soul which in itself has nothing in common with the rest of created things....
            [Some may say] How long are we to learn of other living creatures while we do not know ourselves? Tell me what is to be for my benefit, that I may know myself. That is a just complaint. However, the order which Scripture laid down must however be retained. We cannot fully know ourselves without first knowing the nature of all living creatures.
    Six Days of Creation, Book VI: The Sixth Day, 1:2-2:3

    St. Anthony the Great (251 - 356)

    For creation, as if written in characters and by means of its order and harmony, declares in a loud voice its own Master and Creator.... For this reason, God, by his own Word, gave creation such order as is found therein, so that while He is by nature invisible, men might yet be able to know Him through His works.
    "Treatise Against the Pagans," Ref. 746-747, in The Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 1, p. 320.

    For one who has faith and determination, it is not difficult to gain spiritual understanding of God. If you wish to contemplate Him, look to the providential harmony in all things created by His Logos.
    Philokalia, Vol. 1:160

    Blessed Augustine of Hippo (354 - 430)

    Some people, in order to discover God, read books. But there is a great book: the very appearance of created things. Look above you! Look below you! Note it. Read it. God, whom you want to discover, never wrote that book with ink. Instead He set before your eyes the things that He had made. Can you ask for a louder voice than that? Why, heaven and earth shout to you: "God made me!"
    De Civit. Dei, Book XVI, as quoted by Hugh Price, Saint Augustine of Hippo, Image Books, 1957, p. 227.

    St. Athanasius (297 - 373)

    As the creative will of a sculptor hovers over a piece of wood, or as the spiritual soul spreads through all the limbs of the body, thus it is with the Holy Spirit: it hovers over all things with a creative and formative power.

    Like a musician who has tuned his lyre, and by the artistic blending of low and high and medium tones produces a single melody, so the Wisdom of God, holding the universe like a lyre, adapting things heavenly to things earthly, and earthly things to heavenly, harmonizes them all, and leading them by His will, makes one world and one world order in beauty and harmony.
    Contra Gentes, 41

    St. Basil the Great (329 - 379)                               

    Why contemplate nature?

    The contemplation of nature abates the fever of the soul, and banishes all insincerity and presumption.
    In D. B. Wallace-Hadrill, The Greek Patristic View of Nature, Manchester Univ. Press, 1968, pg. 33, quoted in Keith Warner, OFM, Back to Eden: Christian Attitudes toward Wilderness in the Patristic and Medieval Period, paper, 1996, pg. 12.

    Creation as a theophany of wisdom

    You have then heaven and earth adorned, earth beautified, the sea peopled with its own creatures, the air filled with birds which scour in every direction. Studious listener, think of all these creations..., think of all those which my narration has left out to avoid tediousness; recognize everywhere the wisdom of God; never cease to wonder, and through every creature, to glorify the Creator.
    HexaemeronVIII, "The Creation of Fowl and Water Animals," 7

    Remembrance of God through creation

    I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you the clear remembrance of the Creator....
          Scripture depicts to us the Supreme Artist, praising each one of His works; soon when His work is complete He will accord praise to the whole together....
          A single plant, a blade of grass or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made.                                                             
    Hexaemeron, Homily V, "The Germination  of the Earth," 2-3

    Magnifying the Lord through creation

    He magnifies the Lord who observes with a keen understanding and most profound contemplation the greatness of creation, so that from the greatness and beauty of creatures he may contemplate their Creator. The deeper one penetrates into the reasons for which things in existence were made and were governed, the more he contemplates the magnificence of the Lord and, as far as it lies in him, magnifies the Lord.
    Homily 16:3

    The land as a common inheritance

    God has poured the rains on a land tilled by avaricious hands; He has given the sun to keep the seeds warm, and to multiply the fruit through His productivity. Things of this kind are from God: the fertile land, moderate winds, abundance of seeds, the work of the oxen, and other things by which a farm is brought into productivity and abundance.... But the avaricious one has not remembered our common nature and has not thought of distribution.
    Sermon IV:1, On Ownership

    God's creation teaches His qualities

    "And God saw that it was good." God does not judge the beauty of his work by the charm of the eyes, and He does not hold to the same idea of beauty that we do. What He esteems beautiful is that which presents in its perfection all the fitness of art, and that which tends to the usefulness of its end. ...
          May God who after having made such great things... grant you the intelligence of His truth so that you may raise yourselves from visible things to the invisible Being, and that the grandeur and beauty of creatures may give you a just idea of the Creator. For the visible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, and His power and divinity are eternal. Thus earth, air, sky, water, day, night, all visible things, remind us of Him who is our Benefactor.
    Hexaemeron, Homily III, “On the Firmament," 10

    How to understand creation's lessons about God

    To investigate the great and prodigious show of creation, to understand supreme and ineffable wisdom, you must bring personal light for the contemplation of the wonders which I spread before your eyes, and help me, according to your power, in this struggle, where you are not so much judges as fellow combatants, for fear lest the truth might escape you.... Why these words? It is because we propose to study the world as a whole, and to consider the universe, not by the light of worldly wisdom, but by that with which God wills to enlighten His servant, when He speaks to him in person and without enigmas. It is because it is absolutely necessary that all lovers of great and grand shows should bring a mind well prepared to study them....
          If sometimes, on a bright night, while gazing with watchful eyes on the inexpressible beauty of the stars, you have thought of the Creator of all things; if you have asked yourself who it is that has dotten heaven with such flowers, and why visible things are even more useful than beautiful; ... if you have raised yourself by the visible things to the invisible Being, then you are a well prepared auditor, and you can take your place in this august and blessed amphitheatre.
          Come in the same way that any one not knowing a town is taken by the hand and led through it; thus I am going to lead you, like strangers, through the mysterious marvels of this great city of the universe....
          You will know that you are formed of earth, but the work of God's hands, much weaker than the brute [creatures], but ordained to command beings without reason and soul.... If we are penetrated by these truths, we shall know God, we shall adore our Creator, we shall serve our Master, we shall glorify our Father, we shall love our Sustainer, we shall bless our Benefactor, we shall not cease to honor the Prince of present and future life, Who, by the riches that He showers upon us in this world, makes us believe in His promises and uses present good things to strengthen our expectations of the future. Truly, if such are the good things of time, what will be those of eternity? If such is the beauty of visible things, what shall we think of invisible things? If the grandeur of heaven exceeds the measure of human intelligence, what mind shall be able to trace the nature of the everlasting?
    Hexaemeron, "The Creation of Luminous Bodies," Homily VI, 1

    A conception of God from His creation

    Let us glorify the Master Craftsman for all that has been done wisely and skillfully; and from the beauty of the visible things, let us form an idea of Him Who is more than beautiful; and from the greatness of these perceptible and circumscribed bodies let us conceive of Him Who is infinite and immense and Who surpasses all understanding in the plenitude of His power. For even if we are ignorant of things made, yet, at least, that which in general comes under our observation is so wonderful that even the most acute mind is shown to be at a loss as regards the least of the things in the world, either in the ability to explain it worthily or to render due praise to the Creator, to Whom be all glory, honor and power forever.
    Hexaemeron I:11

    The cause of evil

    If evil is neither uncreated nor created by God, from whence comes its nature? Certainly that evil exists, no one living in the world will deny. What shall we say then? Evil is not a living animated essence; it is a condition of the soul opposed to virtue, developed in the careless on account of their falling away from good.
    Hexaemeron, Homily II, "The Earth was invisible and unfinished," 4

    The divine order penetrates to the smallest part of creation

    See how the divine order embraces and extends to the smallest object. A fish does not resist God’s law, yet we men cannot endure His precepts of salvation! Do not despise fish because they are unreasoning; rather fear lest, in your resistance to the disposition of the Creator, you have even less reason than they. Listen to the fish, who by their actions all but speak and say: it is for the perpetuation of our species that we undertake this long voyage. They have not the gift of reason, but they have the law of nature firmly seated within them, to show them what they have to do.
    Hexaemeron 7.4

    Before the creation of the world

    It appears, indeed, that even before this world an order of things existed of which our mind can attain by contemplation, but which has been left uninvestigated because it is too lofty a subject for men who are but beginners and babes in knowledge. The birth of the world was preceded by a condition of things suitable for the exercise of supernatural powers, outstripping the limits of time, eternal and infinite. The Creator and Demiurge of the universe perfected His works in it, spiritual light for the happiness of all who love the Lord, intellectual and invisible natures, all the orderly arrangement of pure intelligences who are beyond the reach of our mind and of whom we cannot even discover the names. They fill the essence of this invisible world, as Paul teaches us. “For by him were all things created that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers,” or virtues or hosts of angels, or the dignities of archangels.
        To this world it was necessary to add a new world, both a school and training place, where the souls of men should be taught and a home for beings destined to be born and to die. Thus was created of a nature analogous to this world and the animals and plants which live thereon, the succession of time, forever pressing on and passing away and never stopping in its course. Is not this the nature of time, where the past is no more, the future does not exist, and the present escapes before being recognized? And such also is the nature of the creature which lives in time, condemned to grow or to perish without rest and without certain stability. It is therefore fit that the bodies of animals and plants, obliged to follow a sort of current, and carried away by the motion which leads to birth or to death, s hould live in the midst of surroundings whose nature is in accord with being subject to change. Thus the writer who wisely tells us of the birth of the Universe does not fail to put these words at the head of the narrative, “In the beginning, God created;” that is to say, in the beginning of time.
    Hexaemeron, Homily 1:5, “In the Beginning...,” translation by Blomfield Jackson, King’s College, 1894, reprinted in The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 8, Hendrickson Publ., Peabody, Mass., 1994, pg. 54-55.

    Before this world

    Even before this world, an order of things existed of which our mind can form an idea, but which was left untold [in Genesis], because it is too lofty a subject for men who are but beginners and are still babes in knowledge. The birth of the world was preceded by a condition of things suitable for the exercise of supernatural powers, out-stripping the limits of time, eternal and infinite... the intellectual and invisible natures, all the orderly arrangement of pure intelligences who are beyond the reach of our mind and of whom we cannot ever discover the names... the host of angels or the dignities of archangels.
    Hexameron 1:5, (alternate translation) this version quoted in Alexandre Kalomiros, “The Eternal Will,” The Christian Activist, Vol. 11, Winter, 1997, p. 8.

    St. Clement of Alexandria (150 - 220)

    Other men, indeed, live that they may eat, just like unreasoning animals; for them life is only their belly. But as for us, our Educator has given the command that we eat only to live. Eating is not our main occupation, nor is pleasure our chief ambition. Food is permitted us simply because of our stay in this world, which the Word is shaping for immortality by His education. Our food should be plain and ungarnished, suitable to children who are plain and unpretentious, adapted to maintaining life, not self-indulgence.
            Excessive variety of food must be avoided, for it gives rise to every kind of bad effect.... Yet there are those who grow dissatisfied with this truth in their restless ostentation, and reject simplicity of diet to engage in a frantic search for expensive menus that must be imported from across the seas. ...
            It is a natural law that the body is not benefited by excessively rich food: quite the contrary, those who live on simpler foods are stronger and healthier and more alert, as servants are, for example, in comparison with their masters, or farmer-tenants in comparison with their landlords.
            Let the meal be plain and restrained, of such sort that it will quicken the spirit. Let  it be free of too rich a variety, and let not such a meal be withdrawn from the guidance of the Educator.... If the diet oversteps the limits of self-sufficiency, it harms man by dulling his mind and making his body susceptible to disease. Indeed, the pleasures of a luxurious table inflict untold damage: gluttony, squeamishness, gourmandizing, insatiability of appetite, voraciousness. If a person is wealthy, yet eats without restraint and shows himself insatiable, he disgraces himself in a special way and does wrong on two scores: first he adds to the burden of those who do not have, and he lays bare, before those who do have, his own lack of temperance.
           
    Clement also speaks against the scouring of the world for expensive foods.
    "Do not for the sake of food destroy the work of God.... We must restrain the belly and keep it under the control of heaven. True food is thanksgiving. He who offers up thanks will not indulge excessively in pleasure. Our examples of virtue will draw out fellow banqueters to virtue.”

    It is God Himself Who brought our race to possession of things in common, first by sharing Himself and by sending His Word to all men alike, and by making all things for all. Therefore, everything is in common, and the rich should not grasp a greater share.
    The expression, “I own something and have more than enough; why should I not enjoy it?” is not worthy of man nor does it indicate any community feeling. The alternative expression however does: “I have something, why should I not share it with those in need? Such a one is one the right path, and fulfills the command: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
    Christ the Educator, p. 192

    The Christian way of life is not achieved by self-indulgence. Far from "lust-exciting delicacies" is the table of truth. Even though all things have been created particularly for man, it is not well to make use of all things, nor to use them at all times. Surely the occasion and the time, the manner and the motive, make some difference to one who is educated (by Christ) to what is profitable. It is this goal that provides the strength we need to restrain ourselves from living lives centered around the table. Wealth chooses that sort of life, for its vision is blunted; it is abundance that blinds in the matter of gluttony.
    Christ the Educator, Book II:1-2

    O God, the Educator and Instructor,
    Lord.... Give to us, who follow thy command,
    to fulfill the likeness of thy image,
    and to see, according to our strength,
    the God who is both a good God and
    a Judge who is not harsh.
            Do thou bestow all things on us who dwell in thy peace,
    who have been placed in thy city, who sail the sea of sin unruffled,
    that we may be made tranquil and, supported by the Holy Spirit —
    the unutterable wisdom — by night and day, unto the perfect day,
    to sing eternal thanksgiving to the one only Father and Son,
    Son and Father, Educator and Teacher, with the Holy Spirit.
            All things are for the One, in whom are all things,
    through whom, being the One, are all things,
    through whom eternity is, of whom all men are members,
    to whom is glory, and the ages,
    whose are all things in their goodness;
    all things in their beauty;
    all things in their wisdom; all things in their justice.
    To Him be glory now and forever.                         
            Amen.
    Prayer for a right relationship to God and creation
    Christ the Educator, conclusion

  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12546.msg147345#msg147345 date=1320973301]
    Once salvation has been fully realized, there will be no animals in existence as no animals are "allowed" in God's Kingdom.


    How do you know? Any sources on that? God created animals in Paradise, how is the Kingdom any different?
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=Christs' servant link=topic=12546.msg147332#msg147332 date=1320956633]
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12546.msg147317#msg147317 date=1320939653]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    No, I'm not 100% sure. I will look into it more though.


    Please do and let us know, because I've never heard of animals being saved :o


    I've tried to find a primary source for these prayers, but the only sources are in books that I came across. Unfortunately, these books do not provide any sort of primary source.
  • imikhailimikhail
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12546.msg147408#msg147408 date=1321069859]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12546.msg147345#msg147345 date=1320973301]
    Once salvation has been fully realized, there will be no animals in existence as no animals are "allowed" in God's Kingdom.


    How do you know? Any sources on that? God created animals in Paradise, how is the Kingdom any different?


    I know because I read the bible and no where it says animals are created eternal on the likeness of God.

    Paradise was here on earth accommodating living creatures with mortal bodies. Kingdom of heaven is not paradise, it is the eternal abode of the righteous.

    Eternity is not for animals because eternity is realized only through salvation.

    God incarnated in the form of human to save human not in the form of animals to save the animals.

    Animals are irrational beings with no will of their own and thus have no salvation and no potential of eternity.

    Should I go on?
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    Last I checked, the Bible was silent when it comes to animals or what happens to them, seeing as how the primary focus is on God's plan of salvation for mankind. God saw fit to create animals once before, I see no reason in the new Heaven and the new Earth, there will be no animals.

    That being said, if you want to read into the text, feel free. You have a knack for it anyway.

    Oh, and here is St. John Chrysostom's take:

    The saints are exceedingly loving and gentle to mankind, and even to the beasts.... Surely we ought to show them great kindness and gentleness for many reasons, but, above all, because they are of the same origin as ourselves.
    Homily XXXIX: 35 Comentary on Epistle to the Romans

    In the end, we don't know if there will be animals in Heaven or not.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    Abba Antony the Great:

    Because some people impiously dare to say that plants and vegetables have a soul, I will briefly write about this for the guidance of the simple. Plants have a natural life, but they do not have a soul. Man is called an intelligent animal because he has intellect and is capable of acquiring knowledge. The other animals and the birds can make sounds because they possess breath and soul. All things that are subject to growth and decline are alive; but the fact that they live and grow does not necessarily mean that they all have souls.

    There are four categories of living beings. the first are immortal and have souls, such as angels. The second have intellect, soul and breath, such as men. The third have breath and soul, such as animals. The fourth have only life, such as plants. The life of plants is without soul, breath, intellect or immortality. These four attributes, on the other hand, presuppose the possession of life.

    St Maximus the Confessor:

    The soul has three powers: first, the power of nourishment and growth; the second, that of imagination and instinct; third, that of intelligence and intellect. Plants share only in the first of these powers, animals share in the first and second only, and men share in all three.

    St Augustine:

    If I say there are other creatures made by God, some are less excellent than the soul, and some equal to it. The soul of a brute animal, for instance, is less excellent, and that of an angel equal; but nothing is better than the soul. And if at any time any of these is better, that is the result of the soul's sin, not of its nature. Still, sin does not make the human so inferior that the soul of a brute animal is to be preferred to it or even compared to it.

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