I know that there are many more, like Al-el maymoudeya, and some more al's I think the first one is dead, because moalem mikhail was going to teach it to a priest but the priest learned a hard hymn before, so he said, give me some time, but the time never came, because mlm passed away. I also know that moalem tawfik's family is hidding over 300 recordings from the church. Does anyone know why? GB, Pray for me, Cyril
1st hos long tune..you might be thinking The long kiahk hos. I don't think it exists anymore if it did. La7n el shama3a is fake, no such thing.
Tishori alexandrian tune is great, wagdi bishara recorded it. You might want to contact him for it.
Cyril,
Muallem tewfiks family is not hiding recordings, that is not true. If anyone will have recordings it will be the family of Ragheb moftah, but that is still speculation and there are no grounds to that rumor.
Wait. Ragheb moftah's family is hidding mlm tewfiks recordong or ragheb moftah's family is hidding his (RM)'s recordings? Why would they hid them? If so, I heard that the church offered them a lot of money and they still wont give it to anybody. Do you know why? BTW, the kiahk hoos exists: http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/206 Did the long first hoos exist before? Why don't we say it anymore? Is there any recordings for it? GB, PFM, Cyril
Cyril, read my last post, I did not say the Kiahk hos doesn't exist. Ragheb Moftah is not a cantor, he has no recordings. And I did not say they are in fact hiding them. I said if anything his family would be the ones keeping Muallem mikhaels recordings since he was the one who worked with him. As stated, this is speculation and does not always have grounds.
If they are hiding them, there is no real reason to hide them except to say "we have the rare recordings and will only give them to those we trust and like" to form some sort of exclusiveness around them. That and most likely copyright situations where they can't be released to the public without being purchased.
How can the long first hos have a recording if it does not exist anymore? lol
[quote author=Mina4u2010 link=topic=10518.msg127790#msg127790 date=1295695352] Does anyone have recordings to this hymns or now something about: 1-First Hos long tune i dont think that exist but i did hear rumors.
2-la7n elshama3
haha....i can't believe this still fools ppl (sorry)....this was a joke a couple friends started on coptichymns.net to fool all the very zealous deacons there (mostly from Cali).....it worked for a while till abouna forced to stop :-) the hymn doesn't exist.
haha....i can't believe this still fools ppl (sorry)....this was a joke a couple friends started on coptichymns.net to fool all the very zealous deacons there (mostly from Cali).....it worked for a while till abouna forced to stop :-) the hymn doesn't exist.
I am sorry, can you please elaborate? I actually learned about la7n el shama3 (literally translated "the candle") from a very knowledgeable person. I dont know much details about it, I have been seeking to inquire more information about this hymn and its words. I learned that this was a very long la7n that a deacon would sing with a tarha on his head and a candle in his hand. This tarha was to cover his eyes so people dont see him crying. The hymn was known to be very moving to the point of tears in the person singing it. The wax on the candle when it fell on his hand, he didnt feel it neither was he affected because he was so into the hymn (keep in mind its very long, so most of the candle wax would melt on his hand by the end of it). I do not know the reason or the symbolism of the candle though. Anybody have more information about this hymn? or is it really as you say- doesnt exist? What I mentioned is all I know about it
Wow, lol i can't believe there is a story behind it now as well. It is most definitely fake, it really does not exist. You can still probably go on to the coptichymns.net archives and find the discussion on there. I remember it, lol it was quite funny. But yes, this "la7n" is most definitely not real
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=10518.msg127860#msg127860 date=1295742028] The Candle Hymn is as fake as the Fast of St. George that we tried to pull on one of our friends.
Ya'll are liars!! :P lol I am not gullible at all... ::) I can't believe this is a joke, he was so serious!! I will not be convinced until I ask him and he confirms that it is a joke.
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=10518.msg127826#msg127826 date=1295718783] Cyril, read my last post, I did not say the Kiahk hos doesn't exist. Ragheb Moftah is not a cantor, he has no recordings. And I did not say they are in fact hiding them. I said if anything his family would be the ones keeping Muallem mikhaels recordings since he was the one who worked with him. As stated, this is speculation and does not always have grounds. If they are hiding them, there is no real reason to hide them except to say "we have the rare recordings and will only give them to those we trust and like" to form some sort of exclusiveness around them. That and most likely copyright situations where they can't be released to the public without being purchased. How can the long first hos have a recording if it does not exist anymore? lol
Sorry, if you look at the time you posted saying, it exists, and me asking, it is about a minute. The who is Ragheb Moftah? I know you didn't say that his family was hidding them, but I heard it by many people, so I am starting to believe it. Why would he keep muallem mikhaels hymns? I was talking about mlm tawfik. Does mr. moftah, have any of his recordings? If they are hidding them, why would they do that? Why would the church allow them to do that? You clearly said that the first hos (long) doesn't exist ANYMORE. that means, that it did exist.. Are there any old mlmin that recorded it before, was my question.
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10518.msg127892#msg127892 date=1295806237] Sorry, if you look at the time you posted saying, it exists, and me asking, it is about a minute. The who is Ragheb Moftah? he is the first person in our Church to take our hymns seriously. that is to record them, to spread them, to transcribe them into musical notes and (an effect that came with the previous) try to standardize. He spend almost all of his money in this process.
I know you didn't say that his family was hidding them, but I heard it by many people, so I am starting to believe it. Why would he keep muallem mikhaels hymns?
the thing is that it was said that there are SOME RECORDINGS....nothing about specific rare never-heard hymns (atleast they didn't explicitly say so). ya3ny m.Mikhail lived his life with Ragheb Moftah and i am sure he have many recordings other than what we have today.....but they are not necessarily hymns that are never heard. Also maybe there are hymns that mMikhael recorded that were maybe not authentic. so there is that possibility to.
I was talking about mlm tawfik. Does mr. moftah, have any of his recordings?
Raghep died a long time ago (not too long really). to do the things that i listed above answering your first question, he needed to go around egypt and get hymns that are not known in other places. M Tawfik was the cantor of the Muharraq monastery. he was brought many time from the monastery (with the abbot's permission of course) to go and learn from m.Mikhail. M.Mikhael was the main source here not m.Tawfik even thoo he does have recordings that MMikael didn't record.....but that is acceptable because the see'ed in general had many hymns that were not easy to get to.
If they are hidding them, why would they do that?
the feeling of having something valuable in your possession is strong in egypt....specially in the hymns business.......i have a lot to say about this but it's not hte time or place.
Why would the church allow them to do that?
the Church can't force someone to give up something that is just his. does the Church take alms from you by force? NO.
I found that, Mr. Moftah was born in 1898. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragheb_Moftah Are you telling me that since the year 0-1898, no one in the church took hymns seriously? St. Paul, St. Bishoy... If I am understanding correctly, Moftah is keeping Mikhail's recording? If so, isn't that steeling? It is not HIS hymns. It would then be stealing from the church, right? Pope Shenouda can go to their house, and tell them that if they they have to give him the recordings because that is where they belong. God bless, Pray for me, Cyril
Cyril the pope has more pressing issues to deal with then whether or not the Moftah family has recordings and is keeping it to themselves. Thats not what mina is saying. At the time of Ragheb Moftah and Mlm Mikhael, people did not really care about hymns, there was a threat to their extinction. And we've said this many times now, they are allegations. And if his family does have recordings, it is their choice to keep them or distribute them. And its not stealing, he was responsible for the recordings, they are his.
Again we lose focus of whats important, how about instead of looking for rare hymns, we learn the ones we have that are already rare. Why not focus on preserving fully what we have before seeking to preserve what we dont' even know of.
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10518.msg127792#msg127792 date=1295705273] I know that there are many more, like Al-el maymoudeya, and some more al's I think the first one is dead, because moalem mikhail was going to teach it to a priest but the priest learned a hard hymn before, so he said, give me some time, but the time never came, because mlm passed away. I also know that moalem tawfik's family is hidding over 300 recordings from the church. Does anyone know why? GB, Pray for me, Cyril
Sorry but i am from M3lm Tawfeek family and we aren't hidding any hymen and i haven't any recordings to him such as the 3Cds and i have got these from my church bookstore like anybody.
[quote author=Mina4u2010 link=topic=10518.msg128045#msg128045 date=1295952655] [quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10518.msg127792#msg127792 date=1295705273] I know that there are many more, like Al-el maymoudeya, and some more al's I think the first one is dead, because moalem mikhail was going to teach it to a priest but the priest learned a hard hymn before, so he said, give me some time, but the time never came, because mlm passed away. I also know that moalem tawfik's family is hidding over 300 recordings from the church. Does anyone know why? GB, Pray for me, Cyril
Sorry but i am from M3lm Tawfeek family and we aren't hidding any hymen and i haven't any recordings to him such as the 3Cds and i have got these from my church bookstore like anybody.
Ogai 5en 'ptchois
you have been brainwashed, this is what they told you. lol jk.
@Mina4u2010 O.K. I believe you. I didn't mean to accuse you. Sorry. So you are mlm Tawfik's ___. I guess that you be sick to have a mlm as un uncle, dad, grandpa... How about Mr. Ragheb Moftah? Do you know or think or heard that his family is hidding something? GB, PFM, Sorry, Cyril
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10518.msg128108#msg128108 date=1295989320] How about Mr. Ragheb Moftah? Do you know or think or heard that his family is hidding something? GB, PFM, Sorry, Cyril
ya habibi...what difference does it make to us right now?? When we learn ALLL of the current hymns we have, let us worry about things we don't have.
I see where you are coming from! (Egypt) ;) I know what you are saying, but for the sake of knowing. It makes no difference ya abi. I just want to know! You know! ;) Cyril
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10518.msg128113#msg128113 date=1295989664] I see where you are coming from! (Egypt) ;)
i actually havn't been there since i cane to the states.....about 10 yrs now.
I know what you are saying, but for the sake of knowing.
tooo much knowing with bases or actions hurts more than it helps. trust me, you don't wanna know half of the stuff i know about reality and all what happens in our Church. Serve God in all possible ways and live a Christian life.....not through knowledge only but through actions. We need to be Christians by actions and not only words that we say.
Laurence Moftah has gone out of her way to make her uncle, Ragheb Moftah's, collection available to everyone through the Library of Congress. (http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/html/coptic/copticgallery-raghebmoftah.html). Watch the videos on the site and you'll see Laurence Moftah telling you why she makes her uncle's collection available. There is no hidden tapes held back from the Moftah family.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=10518.msg128120#msg128120 date=1295991002] [quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10518.msg128113#msg128113 date=1295989664] I see where you are coming from! (Egypt) ;)
i actually havn't been there since i cane to the states.....about 10 yrs now.
I know what you are saying, but for the sake of knowing.
tooo much knowing with bases or actions hurts more than it helps. trust me, you don't wanna know half of the stuff i know about reality and all what happens in our Church. Serve God in all possible ways and live a Christian life.....not through knowledge only but through actions. We need to be Christians by actions and not only words that we say. You know the expression "I know where you are coming from!"? That is what I mean't. Not litteraly that I know where you are coming from. I guess, I will let it go. Thank you my big brother in Christ for all you tiredness and efforts with this little stubborn brother. [quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=10518.msg128133#msg128133 date=1295993232] Laurence Moftah has gone out of her way to make her uncle, Ragheb Moftah's, collection available to everyone through the Library of Congress. (http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/html/coptic/copticgallery-raghebmoftah.html). Watch the videos on the site and you'll see Laurence Moftah telling you why she makes her uncle's collection available. There is no hidden tapes held back from the Moftah family. George
I will take MinaGIR's advice, God bless, Thank you, Pray for me, Cyril
beautiful video. the video says Doctor Labib. if you are lost with the scene, don't be. in the kiahk psalmody, the text says that whoever will chant the intro holds a lit candle and wears a shamla.
Comments
I think the first one is dead, because moalem mikhail was going to teach it to a priest but the priest
learned a hard hymn before, so he said, give me some time, but the time never came, because mlm passed away.
I also know that moalem tawfik's family is hidding over 300 recordings from the church.
Does anyone know why?
GB, Pray for me,
Cyril
Tishori alexandrian tune is great, wagdi bishara recorded it. You might want to contact him for it.
Cyril,
Muallem tewfiks family is not hiding recordings, that is not true. If anyone will have recordings it will be the family of Ragheb moftah, but that is still speculation and there are no grounds to that rumor.
Did you just say the Kiahky Hos doesn't exist? lol
Ragheb moftah's family is hidding mlm tewfiks recordong or ragheb moftah's family is hidding his (RM)'s recordings?
Why would they hid them? If so, I heard that the church offered them a lot of money and they still wont give it to anybody.
Do you know why?
BTW, the kiahk hoos exists: http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/206
Did the long first hoos exist before? Why don't we say it anymore? Is there any recordings for it?
GB, PFM,
Cyril
If they are hiding them, there is no real reason to hide them except to say "we have the rare recordings and will only give them to those we trust and like" to form some sort of exclusiveness around them. That and most likely copyright situations where they can't be released to the public without being purchased.
How can the long first hos have a recording if it does not exist anymore? lol
Does anyone have recordings to this hymns or now something about:
1-First Hos long tune
i dont think that exist but i did hear rumors. haha....i can't believe this still fools ppl (sorry)....this was a joke a couple friends started on coptichymns.net to fool all the very zealous deacons there (mostly from Cali).....it worked for a while till abouna forced to stop :-)
the hymn doesn't exist. Wagdi Bishara have a recording.....pm him.
the hymn doesn't exist.
I am sorry, can you please elaborate? I actually learned about la7n el shama3 (literally translated "the candle") from a very knowledgeable person. I dont know much details about it, I have been seeking to inquire more information about this hymn and its words. I learned that this was a very long la7n that a deacon would sing with a tarha on his head and a candle in his hand. This tarha was to cover his eyes so people dont see him crying. The hymn was known to be very moving to the point of tears in the person singing it. The wax on the candle when it fell on his hand, he didnt feel it neither was he affected because he was so into the hymn (keep in mind its very long, so most of the candle wax would melt on his hand by the end of it). I do not know the reason or the symbolism of the candle though. Anybody have more information about this hymn? or is it really as you say- doesnt exist? What I mentioned is all I know about it
Thanks
Whats the title?
I can try looking for it.
I will also ask the person that taught this to me because he was not joking by any means. I dont trust you guys! :P
The Candle Hymn is as fake as the Fast of St. George that we tried to pull on one of our friends.
hahahaha
lol I am not gullible at all... ::)
I can't believe this is a joke, he was so serious!!
I will not be convinced until I ask him and he confirms that it is a joke.
Cyril, read my last post, I did not say the Kiahk hos doesn't exist. Ragheb Moftah is not a cantor, he has no recordings. And I did not say they are in fact hiding them. I said if anything his family would be the ones keeping Muallem mikhaels recordings since he was the one who worked with him. As stated, this is speculation and does not always have grounds.
If they are hiding them, there is no real reason to hide them except to say "we have the rare recordings and will only give them to those we trust and like" to form some sort of exclusiveness around them. That and most likely copyright situations where they can't be released to the public without being purchased.
How can the long first hos have a recording if it does not exist anymore? lol
Sorry, if you look at the time you posted saying, it exists, and me asking, it is about a minute. The who is Ragheb Moftah? I know you didn't say that his family was hidding them, but I heard it by many people, so I am starting to believe it. Why would he keep muallem mikhaels hymns? I was talking about mlm tawfik. Does mr. moftah, have any of his recordings? If they are hidding them, why would they do that? Why would the church allow them to do that?
You clearly said that the first hos (long) doesn't exist ANYMORE. that means, that it did exist.. Are there any old mlmin that recorded it before, was my question.
Sorry, if you look at the time you posted saying, it exists, and me asking, it is about a minute. The who is Ragheb Moftah?
he is the first person in our Church to take our hymns seriously. that is to record them, to spread them, to transcribe them into musical notes and (an effect that came with the previous) try to standardize. He spend almost all of his money in this process. the thing is that it was said that there are SOME RECORDINGS....nothing about specific rare never-heard hymns (atleast they didn't explicitly say so). ya3ny m.Mikhail lived his life with Ragheb Moftah and i am sure he have many recordings other than what we have today.....but they are not necessarily hymns that are never heard. Also maybe there are hymns that mMikhael recorded that were maybe not authentic. so there is that possibility to. Raghep died a long time ago (not too long really). to do the things that i listed above answering your first question, he needed to go around egypt and get hymns that are not known in other places. M Tawfik was the cantor of the Muharraq monastery. he was brought many time from the monastery (with the abbot's permission of course) to go and learn from m.Mikhail. M.Mikhael was the main source here not m.Tawfik even thoo he does have recordings that MMikael didn't record.....but that is acceptable because the see'ed in general had many hymns that were not easy to get to. the feeling of having something valuable in your possession is strong in egypt....specially in the hymns business.......i have a lot to say about this but it's not hte time or place. the Church can't force someone to give up something that is just his. does the Church take alms from you by force? NO.
Are you telling me that since the year 0-1898, no one in the church took hymns seriously? St. Paul, St. Bishoy...
If I am understanding correctly, Moftah is keeping Mikhail's recording? If so, isn't that steeling? It is not HIS hymns.
It would then be stealing from the church, right? Pope Shenouda can go to their house, and tell them that if they they have
to give him the recordings because that is where they belong.
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril
Again we lose focus of whats important, how about instead of looking for rare hymns, we learn the ones we have that are already rare. Why not focus on preserving fully what we have before seeking to preserve what we dont' even know of.
I know that there are many more, like Al-el maymoudeya, and some more al's
I think the first one is dead, because moalem mikhail was going to teach it to a priest but the priest
learned a hard hymn before, so he said, give me some time, but the time never came, because mlm passed away.
I also know that moalem tawfik's family is hidding over 300 recordings from the church.
Does anyone know why?
GB, Pray for me,
Cyril
Sorry but i am from M3lm Tawfeek family and we aren't hidding any hymen and i haven't any recordings to him such as the 3Cds and i have got these from my church bookstore like anybody.
Ogai 5en 'ptchois
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10518.msg127792#msg127792 date=1295705273]
I know that there are many more, like Al-el maymoudeya, and some more al's
I think the first one is dead, because moalem mikhail was going to teach it to a priest but the priest
learned a hard hymn before, so he said, give me some time, but the time never came, because mlm passed away.
I also know that moalem tawfik's family is hidding over 300 recordings from the church.
Does anyone know why?
GB, Pray for me,
Cyril
Sorry but i am from M3lm Tawfeek family and we aren't hidding any hymen and i haven't any recordings to him such as the 3Cds and i have got these from my church bookstore like anybody.
Ogai 5en 'ptchois
you have been brainwashed, this is what they told you. lol jk.
O.K. I believe you. I didn't mean to accuse you. Sorry.
So you are mlm Tawfik's ___. I guess that you be sick to have a mlm as un uncle, dad, grandpa...
How about Mr. Ragheb Moftah?
Do you know or think or heard that his family is hidding something?
GB, PFM, Sorry,
Cyril
How about Mr. Ragheb Moftah?
Do you know or think or heard that his family is hidding something?
GB, PFM, Sorry,
Cyril
ya habibi...what difference does it make to us right now??
When we learn ALLL of the current hymns we have, let us worry about things we don't have.
I know what you are saying, but for the sake of knowing.
It makes no difference ya abi.
I just want to know! You know! ;)
Cyril
I see where you are coming from! (Egypt) ;)
i actually havn't been there since i cane to the states.....about 10 yrs now. tooo much knowing with bases or actions hurts more than it helps. trust me, you don't wanna know half of the stuff i know about reality and all what happens in our Church. Serve God in all possible ways and live a Christian life.....not through knowledge only but through actions. We need to be Christians by actions and not only words that we say.
George
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10518.msg128113#msg128113 date=1295989664]
I see where you are coming from! (Egypt) ;)
i actually havn't been there since i cane to the states.....about 10 yrs now. tooo much knowing with bases or actions hurts more than it helps. trust me, you don't wanna know half of the stuff i know about reality and all what happens in our Church. Serve God in all possible ways and live a Christian life.....not through knowledge only but through actions. We need to be Christians by actions and not only words that we say.
You know the expression "I know where you are coming from!"?
That is what I mean't. Not litteraly that I know where you are coming from.
I guess, I will let it go.
Thank you my big brother in Christ for all you tiredness and efforts with this little stubborn brother.
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=10518.msg128133#msg128133 date=1295993232]
Laurence Moftah has gone out of her way to make her uncle, Ragheb Moftah's, collection available to everyone through the Library of Congress. (http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/html/coptic/copticgallery-raghebmoftah.html). Watch the videos on the site and you'll see Laurence Moftah telling you why she makes her uncle's collection available. There is no hidden tapes held back from the Moftah family.
George
I will take MinaGIR's advice,
God bless, Thank you, Pray for me,
Cyril
http://www.youtube.com/user/nofernofer1#p/u/21/Vb3BTEpF4VQ
This is what Stavroforos was referring to...I also heard the same explanation from that same knowledgeable person about this hymn.
Interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/user/nofernofer1#p/u/21/Vb3BTEpF4VQ
This is what Stavroforos was referring to...I also heard the same explanation from that same knowledgeable person about this hymn.
This is the great into of the watos saturday exposition:
http://tasbeha.org/media/index.php?st=Hymns/Fasts/Nativity/Higher_Institute_of_Coptic_Studies/Part_1/15.Introduction_Exposition.1460.mp3
beautiful video. the video says Doctor Labib. if you are lost with the scene, don't be. in the kiahk psalmody, the text says that whoever will chant the intro holds a lit candle and wears a shamla.