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Using a Tonia outside of service
In my school, we have mock weddings in Sociology. One of my friends was in the class and was the priest for the wedding (protestant wedding...i do i do kiss). He wore a tonia and gave his non orthodox friend a tonia to be the deacon or whatever they call the helper. After I told him that it was wrong that he wore it there and let his friend wear one, he got really angry and sent me this video in defense: 
Now he is mad at me and I just want to make sure that I am not wrong about what he was doing wrong.
I wasn't trying to criticize him, I was just trying to make sure my friend doesn't do things that are wrong like this.
Now he is mad at me and I just want to make sure that I am not wrong about what he was doing wrong. I wasn't trying to criticize him, I was just trying to make sure my friend doesn't do things that are wrong like this.
Comments
A tonia is given to us by God through the Church.
Using a tonia in a manner other than liturgical is sacrilege.
A tonia is not his to give anyone.
A tonia is given to us by God through the Church.
Using a tonia in a manner other than liturgical is sacrilege.
I'm not so sure. The tonia is not consecrated like the church/altar, it's just a garment like any other garment. (although it has symbolic significance)
Liturgical vestments are holy ones.
Yes, this is certainly true, and one book I have to hand says that when they were profaned, such as by being worn by heretics, they would be burned.
Just to further add a bit of information to what Fr. Peter already said. The liturgical vestments used to be consecrated with the Myron till recently just like the chalice and the paten.
Why aren't they anymore?
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12772.msg149968#msg149968 date=1325769447]
Just to further add a bit of information to what Fr. Peter already said. The liturgical vestments used to be consecrated with the Myron till recently just like the chalice and the paten.
Why aren't they anymore?
Because of fear that the tonyas would not be treated with the respect they deserve given young kids wearing them.
Oujai
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12772.msg149960#msg149960 date=1325743551]
A tonia is not his to give anyone.
A tonia is given to us by God through the Church.
Using a tonia in a manner other than liturgical is sacrilege.
I'm not so sure. The tonia is not consecrated like the church/altar, it's just a garment like any other garment. (although it has symbolic significance)
This is another example of why you started that thread about the site overstretching its limit. I honestly don't have the intention to call you out or anything, but as Father Peter has said, this idea about a tonia is wrong. It isn't a normal garment. What i am trying to say is maybe you have a lot more views on the church that aren't necessarily correct and since the correct view is being given constantly on this site by Father Peter and maybe others and it doesn't agree with your view you jumped straight to the conclusion that this site has overstretched its limit and there are a lot of incorrect things on the forum that are leading faithful people astray.
Now with all honestly, I don't mean to make you look like a fool at all, but as your brother I believe it is my duty to help you if I feel that there is something confusing you. Don't take this the wrong way and think that I am saying that I am better than you because this is totally not the case. I am very admiring of your efforts to test and question the faith.
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12772.msg149960#msg149960 date=1325743551]
A tonia is not his to give anyone.
A tonia is given to us by God through the Church.
Using a tonia in a manner other than liturgical is sacrilege.
I'm not so sure. The tonia is not consecrated like the church/altar, it's just a garment like any other garment. (although it has symbolic significance)
the only reason why anyone from a traditional church like the coptic church would think like this is because if your church is anything like mine, you probably have an overstuffed drawer somewhere at the side of the altar filled with old, wrinkled, and oil-stained, soot-smeared, wax-hardened tonias which are used when the children "deacons" forget to bring their tonias to church..Not to rant but we should really insist on treating our tonias with lots of respect just as the priest treats his tonia with some amount of respect. At least they (usually) hang them up at the end of the day.
I've heard that the priest blessing the tonia is only the priest giving you permission to wear the tonia as a deacon, is this true, or is it an actual blessing of the tonia itself?
Stick to the topic geomike. You wanna call him out go to the other thread
No it's not that at all. I love him as my brother, and I just want to get to the root of the problem so i can understand where his grievances are coming from.
Amdah yu are such a loooser. Get a life. Focous on your career. Worry about yourself. Geomike is an innocent guy!!
Hello guy, this is the first time I have met you and I am glad you like me, and I know you are trying to defend me but let's use words to build and not put other people down. I appreciate the gesture, but please for my sake please edit your post so that it takes out the hurtful words. Thank you guy, and welcome to the site you will learn a lot.
Our tonias aren't that dirty, but most of them aren't hung up. It's unfortunately a bit of a mess like you say.
I've heard that the priest blessing the tonia is only the priest giving you permission to wear the tonia as a deacon, is this true, or is it an actual blessing of the tonia itself?
The priest is blessing the Tonia. He uses the same blessing he uses when he selects the lamb, consecrates the lamb (right before esbadeer). It is also the same blessing he uses over the incense. It is the same blessing the bishop uses in ordinaton.
See how important is the blessing of the Tonia.
...invariably, by the priest invoking the blessing, he is giving permission to vest. Without that blessing there is no permission for investiture.
[NOT TRYING TO START AN ARGUMENT]
But don't we wear it w/o the blessing when the bishop visits during vespers and during St Marys fast during vespers
Father Peter, I believe the thread has received an answer. Do what you think is best with this thread, as there is a lot of fighting going on for some reason.
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12772.msg150015#msg150015 date=1325863102]
...invariably, by the priest invoking the blessing, he is giving permission to vest. Without that blessing there is no permission for investiture.
But don't we wear it w/o the blessing when the bishop visits during vespers and during St Marys fast during vespers
This is true...Can someone explain this? I think I heard that you don't need a blessing if you are not taking communion. Also why don't we wear tonias during Vespers and Matins if they are part of the liturgy?
In the British Orthodox diocese we do wear tonias for Raising Incense.
I must wonder then whether the authentic and ancient tradition is that all should be vested for the Raising of Incense.
Also the instructions for deacons issued by Hg Bishop Youssef of the Southern Diocese says that tonias are to be worn during Vespers and Matins.
This was the practice till thirty years ago . thx God it is coming back.
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