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Conversion Question
Hello! I'm Roman Catholic and I'm very interested in Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy. I've already learned so much about Church history, theology and liturgy. I'm particularly very interested in the age of the Fathers and the period of the undivided, universal and apostolic Church. As I learn more and more about medieval Catholicism, the more and more I am dissatisfied with modern Catholicism - not only has the institution of the Roman papacy grown and changed so much, but our liturgy has changed so drastically and we've developed practices and devotions that are nowhere to be found in the Scriptures or the Fathers or in any of the Traditions that we've inherited.
Lately, I've been thinking a lot about Orthodoxy. I'm a Latin through and through, in both culture, language, theological framework and especially liturgy. I love to pray the rosary, I am most comfortable with Thomistic theology, I like singing Gregorian chant and the hymns of our Fathers (like St. Ambrose) and their prayers. Therefore, to admit that I am seriously considering moving East is a very serious and big thing. Don't get me wrong, I really admire the veneration of icons, the Jesus prayer, Eastern mysticism, etc. - but it's just that I am leaving things that I've treasured for so long and have been so instrumental in falling deeper in love with Christ and in growing more holy.
I'd like to know what the first steps to conversion would be in the Coptic Orthodox Church? And I've already been Baptised and Confirmed/Chrysmated in the Catholic Church.. would I have to go through that again? To convert to the Catholic Church, one needs to undergo the RCIA program which takes about a year, minimum. Is there a catechism program like that in Coptic Orthodoxy? If so, how long does it take?
Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
ICXC NIKA
John
Lately, I've been thinking a lot about Orthodoxy. I'm a Latin through and through, in both culture, language, theological framework and especially liturgy. I love to pray the rosary, I am most comfortable with Thomistic theology, I like singing Gregorian chant and the hymns of our Fathers (like St. Ambrose) and their prayers. Therefore, to admit that I am seriously considering moving East is a very serious and big thing. Don't get me wrong, I really admire the veneration of icons, the Jesus prayer, Eastern mysticism, etc. - but it's just that I am leaving things that I've treasured for so long and have been so instrumental in falling deeper in love with Christ and in growing more holy.
I'd like to know what the first steps to conversion would be in the Coptic Orthodox Church? And I've already been Baptised and Confirmed/Chrysmated in the Catholic Church.. would I have to go through that again? To convert to the Catholic Church, one needs to undergo the RCIA program which takes about a year, minimum. Is there a catechism program like that in Coptic Orthodoxy? If so, how long does it take?
Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
ICXC NIKA
John
Comments
Hello! I'm Roman Catholic and I'm very interested in Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy. I've already learned so much about Church history, theology and liturgy. I'm particularly very interested in the age of the Fathers and the period of the undivided, universal and apostolic Church. As I learn more and more about medieval Catholicism, the more and more I am dissatisfied with modern Catholicism - not only has the institution of the Roman papacy grown and changed so much, but our liturgy has changed so drastically and we've developed practices and devotions that are nowhere to be found in the Scriptures or the Fathers or in any of the Traditions that we've inherited.
Lately, I've been thinking a lot about Orthodoxy. I'm a Latin through and through, in both culture, language, theological framework and especially liturgy. I love to pray the rosary, I am most comfortable with Thomistic theology, I like singing Gregorian chant and the hymns of our Fathers (like St. Ambrose) and their prayers. Therefore, to admit that I am seriously considering moving East is a very serious and big thing. Don't get me wrong, I really admire the veneration of icons, the Jesus prayer, Eastern mysticism, etc. - but it's just that I am leaving things that I've treasured for so long and have been so instrumental in falling deeper in love with Christ and in growing more holy.
I'd like to know what the first steps to conversion would be in the Coptic Orthodox Church? And I've already been Baptised and Confirmed/Chrysmated in the Catholic Church.. would I have to go through that again? To convert to the Catholic Church, one needs to undergo the RCIA program which takes about a year, minimum. Is there a catechism program like that in Coptic Orthodoxy? If so, how long does it take?
Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
ICXC NIKA
John
I'm probably not qualified to talk about your concerns about leaving things you have treasured, etc...
However, I know the process for conversion is, if (and only if) you refuse to be baptised by full immersion, then you can be baptised (I'm not sure if that term is still used in this case) by simply sprinkling you with water.
I believe there is no "course" for conversion.
God be with you on this journey.
[quote author=iohanne link=topic=12950.msg152379#msg152379 date=1329964678]
Hello! I'm Roman Catholic and I'm very interested in Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy. I've already learned so much about Church history, theology and liturgy. I'm particularly very interested in the age of the Fathers and the period of the undivided, universal and apostolic Church. As I learn more and more about medieval Catholicism, the more and more I am dissatisfied with modern Catholicism - not only has the institution of the Roman papacy grown and changed so much, but our liturgy has changed so drastically and we've developed practices and devotions that are nowhere to be found in the Scriptures or the Fathers or in any of the Traditions that we've inherited.
Lately, I've been thinking a lot about Orthodoxy. I'm a Latin through and through, in both culture, language, theological framework and especially liturgy. I love to pray the rosary, I am most comfortable with Thomistic theology, I like singing Gregorian chant and the hymns of our Fathers (like St. Ambrose) and their prayers. Therefore, to admit that I am seriously considering moving East is a very serious and big thing. Don't get me wrong, I really admire the veneration of icons, the Jesus prayer, Eastern mysticism, etc. - but it's just that I am leaving things that I've treasured for so long and have been so instrumental in falling deeper in love with Christ and in growing more holy.
I'd like to know what the first steps to conversion would be in the Coptic Orthodox Church? And I've already been Baptised and Confirmed/Chrysmated in the Catholic Church.. would I have to go through that again? To convert to the Catholic Church, one needs to undergo the RCIA program which takes about a year, minimum. Is there a catechism program like that in Coptic Orthodoxy? If so, how long does it take?
Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
ICXC NIKA
John
I'm probably not qualified to talk about your concerns about leaving things you have treasured, etc...
However, I know the process for conversion is, if (and only if) you refuse to be baptised by full immersion, then you can be baptised (I'm not sure if that term is still used in this case) by simply sprinkling you with water.
I believe there is no "course" for conversion.
God be with you on this journey.
qawe,
I do not know where you are getting your sources, but there is no such thing as baptism without FULL immersion in our church. Period.
Also, there used to be (and should still be) courses for those who are thinking about catechism. We should not be letting anyone who wishes to convert just for the sake of conversion. There should be courses so that the person seeking catechism may understand the Orthodox faith and thereby show that they are dedicated and sincere in their conversion.
Which country are you located?
I am in Toronto, Canada. The Canadian Coptic Centre is only ten minutes away from me.
http://www.cccnet.ca/
I have been attending their services one to two times a month for almost a year now. =)
qawe,
I do not know where you are getting your sources, but there is no such thing as baptism without FULL immersion in our church. Period.
Not really in the Didache it says :
Ch 7: baptism, which is to be conferred "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" in “living water” (that is, natural flowing water), if it can be had — if not, in cold or even warm water. The baptized and the baptizer, and, if possible, anyone else attending the ritual should fast for one or two days beforehand. If the water is insufficient for immersion, it may be poured three times on the head.
- Also welcome John,
To answer some of your Questions.. No you would not have to be re-baptized but you will be Chrismated (Anointed with Oil) when you come to the Orthodox Faith. You should speak with the Priest in the Church first and he should show you the way, it is a long process because it is not like saying the "Shihada" like Muslims and you are converted. You must believe and know about the Church first and accept its teaching to be Orthodox.
My advise to you is
1. Talk to the Priest in the Coptic Church and perhaps other Orthodox Churches.
2. Tell them that you are interested in conversion and follow the steps and read some books if they advise some to you.
3. Educated yourself
4. Pray and Fast.
5. follow your calling.
Not really in the Didache it says :
Ch 7: baptism, which is to be conferred "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" in “living water” (that is, natural flowing water), if it can be had — if not, in cold or even warm water. The baptized and the baptizer, and, if possible, anyone else attending the ritual should fast for one or two days beforehand. If the water is insufficient for immersion, it may be poured three times on the head.
I highlighted some key words that you quoted. If, for some odd reason, you are in a desert say, and there is not enough water to baptize the soon to be baptized; then and only then can this be permitted. Since you seem to be well read, I'm sure you are well aware of why all the fathers insist on baptism by immersion. Again, this is not an ideal situation. The original rites say by immersion. I am pretty sure the church in Canada can supply him with more than enough water.
[quote author=Pharaoh714 link=topic=12950.msg152423#msg152423 date=1330052273]
Not really in the Didache it says :
Ch 7: baptism, which is to be conferred "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" in “living water” (that is, natural flowing water), if it can be had — if not, in cold or even warm water. The baptized and the baptizer, and, if possible, anyone else attending the ritual should fast for one or two days beforehand. If the water is insufficient for immersion, it may be poured three times on the head.
I highlighted some key words that you quoted. If, for some odd reason, you are in a desert say, and there is not enough water to baptize the soon to be baptized; then and only then can this be permitted. Since you seem to be well read, I'm sure you are well aware of why all the fathers insist on baptism by immersion. Again, this is not an ideal situation. The original rites say by immersion. I am pretty sure the church in Canada can supply him with more than enough water.
Yes but I was addressing what you were saying "There is no such thing as baptism without immersion" I thought you mean we don't recognize these as baptism thus you would have to be re-baptized.
[quote author=qawe link=topic=12950.msg152390#msg152390 date=1329985484]
[quote author=iohanne link=topic=12950.msg152379#msg152379 date=1329964678]
Hello! I'm Roman Catholic and I'm very interested in Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy. I've already learned so much about Church history, theology and liturgy. I'm particularly very interested in the age of the Fathers and the period of the undivided, universal and apostolic Church. As I learn more and more about medieval Catholicism, the more and more I am dissatisfied with modern Catholicism - not only has the institution of the Roman papacy grown and changed so much, but our liturgy has changed so drastically and we've developed practices and devotions that are nowhere to be found in the Scriptures or the Fathers or in any of the Traditions that we've inherited.
Lately, I've been thinking a lot about Orthodoxy. I'm a Latin through and through, in both culture, language, theological framework and especially liturgy. I love to pray the rosary, I am most comfortable with Thomistic theology, I like singing Gregorian chant and the hymns of our Fathers (like St. Ambrose) and their prayers. Therefore, to admit that I am seriously considering moving East is a very serious and big thing. Don't get me wrong, I really admire the veneration of icons, the Jesus prayer, Eastern mysticism, etc. - but it's just that I am leaving things that I've treasured for so long and have been so instrumental in falling deeper in love with Christ and in growing more holy.
I'd like to know what the first steps to conversion would be in the Coptic Orthodox Church? And I've already been Baptised and Confirmed/Chrysmated in the Catholic Church.. would I have to go through that again? To convert to the Catholic Church, one needs to undergo the RCIA program which takes about a year, minimum. Is there a catechism program like that in Coptic Orthodoxy? If so, how long does it take?
Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
ICXC NIKA
John
I'm probably not qualified to talk about your concerns about leaving things you have treasured, etc...
However, I know the process for conversion is, if (and only if) you refuse to be baptised by full immersion, then you can be baptised (I'm not sure if that term is still used in this case) by simply sprinkling you with water.
I believe there is no "course" for conversion.
God be with you on this journey.
qawe,
I do not know where you are getting your sources, but there is no such thing as baptism without FULL immersion in our church. Period.
Also, there used to be (and should still be) courses for those who are thinking about catechism. We should not be letting anyone who wishes to convert just for the sake of conversion. There should be courses so that the person seeking catechism may understand the Orthodox faith and thereby show that they are dedicated and sincere in their conversion.
I heard a Bishop say it on CYC (I think Anba Bishoy). It is a special case for Catholics who refuse to be fully immersed
I think that the Synod instructs that all Catholics should be baptised. This is rather problematic from a variety of points of view. If it were not the case I would not find it problematic.
One of my Readers is from the Russian Orthodox Church and many of my little congregation.
I am in Toronto, Canada. The Canadian Coptic Centre is only ten minutes away from me.
http://www.cccnet.ca/
I have been attending their services one to two times a month for almost a year now. =)
Hey John, thats my church too!! Wow, ur a lucky person, its an amazing church! If you would like i can give you two of our priests' numbers; the hegomens and another one. Also, im sure theyre both more than interested in speaking to you... if they havent already! But just personal message me! :)
Hello! I'm Roman Catholic and I'm very interested in Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy. I've already learned so much about Church history, theology and liturgy. I'm particularly very interested in the age of the Fathers and the period of the undivided, universal and apostolic Church. As I learn more and more about medieval Catholicism, the more and more I am dissatisfied with modern Catholicism - not only has the institution of the Roman papacy grown and changed so much, but our liturgy has changed so drastically and we've developed practices and devotions that are nowhere to be found in the Scriptures or the Fathers or in any of the Traditions that we've inherited.
Lately, I've been thinking a lot about Orthodoxy. I'm a Latin through and through, in both culture, language, theological framework and especially liturgy. I love to pray the rosary, I am most comfortable with Thomistic theology, I like singing Gregorian chant and the hymns of our Fathers (like St. Ambrose) and their prayers. Therefore, to admit that I am seriously considering moving East is a very serious and big thing. Don't get me wrong, I really admire the veneration of icons, the Jesus prayer, Eastern mysticism, etc. - but it's just that I am leaving things that I've treasured for so long and have been so instrumental in falling deeper in love with Christ and in growing more holy.
I'd like to know what the first steps to conversion would be in the Coptic Orthodox Church? And I've already been Baptised and Confirmed/Chrysmated in the Catholic Church.. would I have to go through that again? To convert to the Catholic Church, one needs to undergo the RCIA program which takes about a year, minimum. Is there a catechism program like that in Coptic Orthodoxy? If so, how long does it take?
Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
ICXC NIKA
John
Your story really reassembles mine. Everything you've mentioned is what I felt when I left the RC for the Orthodox Church.
I only chose the Coptic because I didn't understand Greek/Russian, and the sermons in our CHurch, coupled with our hymns are quite deep.
I cannot wait until we are all one Church again, but the way I see it is that the Catholic Church IS an Apostolic Church, and so is the Orthodox - you are just practicing orthodoxy not catholicism.
I REALLY wouldn't be too disturbed about it - The Catholic Church is brilliant; and most of us here have a great deal of love and respect towards the RC.
You are NOT changing religions, you are just becoming more Orthodox.