Hello brothers and sisters,
My question is regarding marriage to a deacon. Are there any restrictions for women who are to marry deacons? For instance, if she committed a particular sin in the past (for instance, homosexual activities, involvement with witchcraft, etc) does that make her unfit to marry a deacon even if she has abandoned that lifestyle? If so, what type of sin's specifically restrict her from being able to marry a deacon? Would the answer change for any of the eastern orthodox churches?
Comments
You would always be best speaking to a priest one to one on something like this.
What do you mean by marrying a deacon? Do you mean a full deacon or one of the minor ranks of servants, or a choir member?
God bless you
I was referring to a women that is in the process of getting married to a deacon that is allowed to enter the inside of the alter and who helps the priest in the church liturgy.
i think that would be a full deacon... if i understand correctly
If the full deacon is to be married, he should be supposed to be married before becoming a deacon. So, if he is married it would be up to the bishop to see if he, and his wife, would be suitable for the deaconship (I mean if the wife has a good reputation ...)
A subdeacon does not wear the black, they wear the same clothes as laity. They can have a job outside the Church. They may not help distribute the Blood. They can clean the vessels, and say the deacon's responses only if there is no deacon present. Ideally, a subdeacon should not marry after his ordination, and should remain celibate after his wife dies. Some bishops make exceptions and allow subdeacons one marriage if they are ordained before being married, and make clear their intention to marry before being ordained. If they have a second marriage (after their wife dies), they may no longer serve.
Readers and Chanters are not deacons, but because there are no deacons or even subdeacons in most Churches today, they have been allowed to say the deacon's responses, and to clean the vessels. Because they do the job of a deacon, most people mistakenly call them deacons, even though unlike the deacon and subdeacon, they are not part of the major orders, but are merely minor orders.
If a chanter or a reader's wife dies, they ideally should not remarry. If they do remarry, they may continue to serve, but can never be advanced to another "rank". If their second wife dies, if they marry a third wife, they may no longer serve. Chanters and readers are laymen, and are free to marry. There are no more restrictions on who they marry than any other layman. Any sins truly repented of will not be an impediment to any marriage, but if they are publicly known, the husband of such a wife may not be allowed to serve as a subdeacon, deacon, or priest, in order to avoid scandal. This would be at the discretion of the bishop. It is very unlikely that a chanter or reader would be asked to stop serving because of past sins of a woman they marry.
Heg. Fr. Athanasius Iskander is adamant that the order of subdeacon, as a major order does not allow marriage after ordination. I've never asked him to see it in writing (since I can't read Coptic or Arabic, so I'd still be taking his word for it anyway...). But he's extremely knowledgable about ritual things, I'd be surprised if he was wrong.
In the EO Church, a subdeacon may not marry after ordination unless he speaks to the bishop first and receives permission... and I believe, though I may be wrong, that it is at most less clear in their tradition that the subdeacon belongs among the major orders.
However, today, bishops commonly ordain unmarried subdeacons who then get married. It seems that this rule is very inconsistently applied from bishop to bishop. However, I believe Fr. Athanasius when he says it is the rule. And I'll bet that the inconsistency comes from the current confusion where every chanter and reader is considered to be a "deacon". There was even one 7 year old by at my Church who was ordained a subdeacon, by a bishop who was his uncle, though he has never "served". Today we treat subdeacons as if they were no different than readers or chanters. Readers and chanters wear the same stole that should be reserved for the subdeacon. There is great confusion.
As far as the type of deacon he is, it appears he must be a sub-deacon or a reader/chanter according to the information you’ve all provided. But regardless of whether this is true or not, he is definitely someone that welcomes the idea of becoming a priest or a bishop if it is in God’s will for him. In that case, my question remains. As you mentioned Father Peter, it’s always best to speak to the a priest/father of confession/bishop face to face. But what if you have already sincerely repented and confessed the sin in question previously to another father of confession and now that you’ve moved to a new place and have gotten a new father of confession you’re too ashamed to bring it up again. At this point, it seems much easier to just breakup the idea of marriage with that person than face the risk of being the source of what could be considered a scandal as Jonathan mentioned. The idea of having the guy be forced to stop serving because of this is even harder to swallow.
you don't have to specify what the sins were, or what type of service is planned (priest / deacon etc). there are many opportunities for all people to serve in the church, teaching children for example, or meeting in small groups to study the Bible or co-ordinating cleaning or cooking activity. that way you make the question about previous sins separate from any discussion about what exact future service would take place.
remember saint moses the black killed people before he became a monk and a great saint.
his sin did not exclude him. (although he did later accept that 'those who kill with the sword will die with the sword and willingly gave his life when the monastery was attacked. may his prayers be with us).
i don't think previous sin should prevent service in the church, as long as the person who has repented shows that they are trustworthy in the years that follow.
the only exception i could think of would be any sin that involved hurting children, i don't think that someone who has done that should work with children again ever as there is too much evidence to suggest that the person could be tempted again to the same sin and it is not right to put our children at risk.
please feel free to send a person message if u want to discuss it more.
Thank you all for the wonderful responses. Initially I was afraid my dramatic examples (witchcraft and homosexuality) were going to push people away. But I figured I needed to pick such examples in order to avoid getting simple answers like, “there are no restrictions because we’re all sinners.” I want concrete details of the church rules/tradition on the matter and I was hoping these examples would force everyone to get to that. Anyway, I’m grateful for all your answers, they were very insightful!!
As far as the type of deacon he is, it appears he must be a sub-deacon or a reader/chanter according to the information you’ve all provided. But regardless of whether this is true or not, he is definitely someone that welcomes the idea of becoming a priest or a bishop if it is in God’s will for him. In that case, my question remains. As you mentioned Father Peter, it’s always best to speak to the a priest/father of confession/bishop face to face. But what if you have already sincerely repented and confessed the sin in question previously to another father of confession and now that you’ve moved to a new place and have gotten a new father of confession you’re too ashamed to bring it up again. At this point, it seems much easier to just breakup the idea of marriage with that person than face the risk of being the source of what could be considered a scandal as Jonathan mentioned. The idea of having the guy be forced to stop serving because of this is even harder to swallow.
I would guess he is a reader, so just a layman like everyone else, though by the sound of it, one faithful in his service.
I can't give you advise, no one on the internet should. But in general, someone should not be thinking about becoming a priest or bishop. These are not things we choose. There has to be a very direct calling. It's not something you consider, and pray about, and wonder if it's God's will. It's something you don't think about, and those who are called are called very directly, and have no doubt that it is God's will. Priests who were self called make bad priests.
So for now, it doesn't make sense to decide against a marriage because you have a past and he might consider the priest in the future if it is God's will. Now the decision comes down to, is it God's will for us to be married? How can we seek God's will. If God wants him or two two of you as a couple for the priesthood, he can call later. But it isn't a factor for decisions now.
Now, if he wants to lead a life of service, and you want to have fun, that could be a reason to put the breaks on a relationship. But if you've sinned in the past, and you're both on the same page now, but at a similar spiritual level, and not unevenly yoked, then don't let a past that you have been forgiven stand in the way of God's plan for your future.
Just seek God's will now, and everything will work out. He knows what He has in store for you in the future, which neither of you can know. Your fathers in confession need to be involved in this process, and you need to be completely open with them about all that is going through your head for and against this relationship, if you wish to seek God's will. There is nothing to be ashamed of, and if you open up to your father in confession about your anxiety he can probably comfort you. There is nothing they haven't heard before.
God bless
Do not ever be thrown into despair because of your past actions. Follow up with a priest, and you'll be alright.
May God prepare a future for you, with joy exceedingly above anything you could even ask for.
ReturnOrthodoy
If you don’t mind me asking are you a Coptic or Eritrean or Ethiopian Orthodox. The reason I am asking this is because of some differences in the deaconship and marriage between the Eritrean/Ethiopian Orthodox Churches and the Coptic Orthodox Church. The differences are not due to dogmas and canons but rather because of some historical events and cultural contexts. Let me know if you are not Coptic and I will give you an elaborate and tailored reply.
Pray for me
Theophilus
Hi Theophilus 1, thats really interesting. Could you please tell me the differences between the three churches (or details on whichever church you are most knowledgeable about) without having me reveal which I belong to. I would like to maintain the sense of an anonymous atmosphere? If there is anyone that cane speak about the other eastern orthodox churches or add to what Theophilus 1 has written, PLEASE share.
Thank you Theophilus 1, I think your suggestion is the best way to address my question.
Sorry for being nosy :) I also want to apologize ahead for what I am writing below if it makes you despair in anyway, just remember the advice of ReturnOrthodoxy!!!
To answer your question, in the Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox Church when one is ordained as a deacon he is ordained as a Full Deacon, usually at a very young age, say before 18. In rare cases you will find people ordained as sub deacons. Other than that the other ranks such as singers and readers are ‘vestigial‘ ranks that we hear of only in the liturgy.
What is the reason behind this???
After Eritrea and Ethiopia became Orthodox ~329AD bishops used to be sent from Alexandria. Btw Eritrea and Ethiopia used to be one country until 1993. Sending a bishop to Ethiopia was not always an easy business. The Caliphates of Egypt used to sanctions sending a bishop to Ethiopia, which was a cause of conflict. Also when a bishop dies, it takes time for messengers to be sent and a replacement bishop to be sent. Even when there is a bishop in Ethiopia, the dioceses is so vast and the terrain mountainous that the bishop could not cover his dioceses regularly.
Due to this reasons and many others those who are to be ordained as deacon will study all the liturgy responses, the prayers to be memorized, the midnight praises, etc and become ordained as Full Deacons at the first chance, maybe also the last chance, they get to meet the bishop.
Such deprivation of a shepherd over an extended period, 1700 years has hurt the Eritrean and Ethiopian church in many ways. In my opinion, this is part of the reason that Orthodoxy did not penetrate south of the Sahara. Of course there were Ethiopian missionaries who converted the southern parts of ethiopia 900years before they became part of the kingdom. An example of such missionaries is St. Tekla who is also commemorated by the Coptic Church. Also because of the lack of bishops and priests some tribes of Eritrea and Ethiopia that were historically Orthodox even until 200 years ago have adopted Islam.
Coming back to the topic at hand, for and Eritrean or Ethiopian Orthodox a deacon is a Full Deacon (although there is a shift now towards ordaining singers and readers especially in the Eritrean Orthodox Church).
When a teenager becomes a Full Deacon it is with the assumption that he will marry later on although he has the liberty to become a monk. But since he is already part of the priesthood (unlike a singer of reader) there is an emphasis that a deacon can only marry a virgin. Remaining a virgin until marriage and marrying a virgin is one of the most important standards one has to meet if he is to continue in the service.
Yes, an Eritrean and Ethiopian orthodox believes that repentance and confession absolves all sin - repentance turns that adulteress into a virgin.
With the fact on the ground being this, I have heard opinions that support and emphasis on virginity and also some that oppose it
Those who support it says that a deacon is part of the priesthood and have to be hold to lofty standard. The quote the letters of Paul to Timothy on their as an explanation:
Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 3:8-13
On the other hand those who oppose this looks suggests that all this is only an obsession over virginity and that it is a concept that has diffused from our culture but is not true Orthodoxy.
Controversy aside, the solution always lies with the father of confession. Hopefully the priest will be aware of these cultural and historical differences.
Gpgm, I hope my explanation helps and if you have more questions you can always send me a pm. A match is made in heaven and God’s will will always be done.
In Christ
Theophilus