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HH Pope Tawadros II and the Holy Eskeem

minasolimanminasoliman
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
So, I watched the ceremony of giving the Holy Eskeem to His Holiness.  Nevertheless, I am confused.  I remember reading somewhere that a diocesan bishop cannot keep up with the requirements of the Holy Eskeem since he will be busy with the service and problems of his diocese.  How much more does this ring true for our upcoming Pope?!  Or is this just something honorary given to him because he will be Pope?

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    For him to give the eskeem to other monks bishops and nuns he himself needs to have it...so thats one exception that was made for him
  • Mark96Mark96
    Woah, when was it? I missed it, have you got a link to where you saw it?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=13858.msg161094#msg161094 date=1352701592]
    For him to give the eskeem to other monks bishops and nuns he himself needs to have it...so thats one exception that was made for him


    So does that mean that all previous Popes had the Eskeem?

    Here's a link:

    http://www.copticworld.org/articles/1418/
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=minasoliman link=topic=13858.msg161125#msg161125 date=1352740675]
    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=13858.msg161094#msg161094 date=1352701592]
    For him to give the eskeem to other monks bishops and nuns he himself needs to have it...so thats one exception that was made for him


    So does that mean that all previous Popes had the Eskeem?

    Here's a link:

    http://www.copticworld.org/articles/1418/

    I am not sure...but i remember seeing Pope Shenouda's in the show case in his 'mazar' now. and i remember, maybe mistaken, I saw a pic with Pope Kerrelos wearing one.
  • ReturnOrthodoxyReturnOrthodoxy
    Pope Shenouda and Pope Kyrollos bore the Schema (Eskeem) because they both lived as solitaires before joining the episcopacy, and as such, they were given the Schema in order to practice its canons. I see no purpose in giving the Patriarch this blessed habit. If he is not expected to fulfill its laws, he should not be given it. It is not a necklace. It is a symbol of extreme asceticism, and it comes with severe responsibilities.

    The idea that he has to have it in order to give it works only half way. As the Bishop of Alexandria, why should he give it to monks? Shouldn't the abbot of the monastery be the one administering the Schema, or at least an experienced elder who bears the schema in practice? The Pope is not in charge of ordaining monks. Monasteries are self-governing, and are not part of a diocese or Patriarchate. The abbot should be administering this. The abbot alone.

    In my humble opinion, such an angelic rite should not be reduced to a mere ceremonial dressing in a leather girdle. It demeans the beauty of the rite. Who knows, maybe he will try to fulfill it. I sure hope he tries to do it.

    Ray
  • meanzmeanz
    It is possible it will serve as a reminder to the new pope that he was,and always will be monk and to try always to remain humble and ascetic at all times.I don't think it is belittling the holy Eskeem in anyway.
  • ReturnOrthodoxyReturnOrthodoxy
    [quote author=Pi Onkh link=topic=13858.msg161133#msg161133 date=1352765673]
    It is possible it will serve as a reminder to the new pope that he was,and always will be monk and to try always to remain humble and ascetic at all times.I don't think it is belittling the holy Eskeem in anyway.


    Hey, Pionkh!

    Thank you for your input. I can see where you are coming from, and I really appreciate you love in trying to see the good in this. I would however have to disagree that such a manner of "reminder" does not work. could we not say that his "kolonsowa" is a reminder? His monastic belt (which all monks carry) or the fact that he has no wife? lol. I think that the Schema is not about what is worn. In dressing a monk in the schema, he becomes a schema-monk. The girdle is nothing more than a symbol of the reality of the ascetic life. But a Bishop does not live the rigorous asceticism of the schema. He may live asceticism differently by being a wise shepherd, but this does not mean much.

    I essence, giving the schema to someone who is not a schema-monk is like me dressing in monk cloths and living in the world, married and all. The cloths are symbolic of a real practice. If they are nothing more than honorary decorations (like the different ranks in the army) then we have reduced the reality of the monastic life so dress.

    The reason a candidate must be given the schema by an already existing schema-monk is not a matter of ordinance, but it is that the elder schema-monk is experienced in the life of the schema. A bishop who wears the schema but does nothing of its rules is just a formality-something we need to get over.

    In any case, I don't have the schema, so I can't take on the job of defending its laws. I'm just a fool,

    Ray
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