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2 Copts beheaded in New Jersey
Is there anyone here in New Jersey who knows more about this?
Here's the news article:
http://www.nbc40.net/story/21112422/jersey-city-man-arrested-for-double-murder#.UR1lo89Pa4p.facebook
Apparently this was done by a man named Yusuf Ibrahim in a parking lot in Jersey City. He shot them and then mutilated their bodies.
God rest their souls and bring comfort to their poor families.
Here's the news article:
http://www.nbc40.net/story/21112422/jersey-city-man-arrested-for-double-murder#.UR1lo89Pa4p.facebook
Apparently this was done by a man named Yusuf Ibrahim in a parking lot in Jersey City. He shot them and then mutilated their bodies.
God rest their souls and bring comfort to their poor families.
Comments
How do you know they're Copts?
they are both from Bergen Church :-)
This is a very strange story.
Is the murder from St. George Bergen?? Is he coptic christian?
This is a very strange story.
Yeah this is very strange. I've heard nothing from anyone else.
Is the murder from St. George Bergen?? Is he coptic christian?
This is a very strange story.
I am not sure about that.
I heard about this from the very reverend father Abouna David Bebawy. However, he was very superficial about it, and didn't go into very much detail.
Is Yusuf Ibrahim Muslim?
That's exactly what I was thinking.
and @peter_saad: when guy said 'murder', I think he meant 'murderer', and that is how minatasgeel understood the question
There are three types of death;
One is seeking death and never finding it. Self-torturing by abstaining from the sacraments of the church
Second is the desire to leave the mortal body and live with god
Third is the evil soul, doing harm wherever it goes. Escaping earthly justice and punishment.
There is heavenly justice
Cain killed Abel - cursed is the earth because of him
People living in emptiness
Evil is their god - murder and destruction
Our God is real, we follow him in happiness, sadness, distress and even to death
Here's a video of their funeral:
Is there a spiritual reason that none of the women at the funeral are covered? It also seems to me that many women are now uncovered at services in Egyptian Coptic Churches. Is there a spiritual reason/instruction for this new custom?
Its ironic that Egyptians seem to leave Egypt to escape persecution and find themselves persecuted unwittingly by other Coptic Christians outside Egypt.
Was the guy accused of murdering them even coptic for that matter??
Is there a spiritual reason that none of the women at the funeral are covered? It also seems to me that many women are now uncovered at services in Egyptian Coptic Churches. Is there a spiritual reason/instruction for this new custom?
I wonder about that too! Really, i do not wish to 'rub salt in a wound'; but why have so many Coptic females let go their beautiful royal coverings?? Personally I do not think it is very becoming.....like going backwards not forwards!
Oh, I know it is not just a Coptic female problem! I ask my Ethiopian god-sister the same question.....why cast aside yr royal robes for dirty jeans, and the rest of those 'street' clothes they like to wear?? I mean, hey, it's ok for the street, but in our Holy Church???!!! :'(
[quote author=Athanasius1 link=topic=14267.msg163337#msg163337 date=1360983837]
Here's a video of their funeral:
Is there a spiritual reason that none of the women at the funeral are covered? It also seems to me that many women are now uncovered at services in Egyptian Coptic Churches. Is there a spiritual reason/instruction for this new custom?
From my understanding, women are meant to cover their hair at all church services for a few reasons such as: not to serve as a distraction to men and to be modestly dressed in the house of God. In this circumstance, I believe there is no reason/instruction but merely a lapse.
In my personal opinion, they're women who are in mourning - I'm sure in their a situation their first priority when they got to church wasn't to find an asharb.. I think it's such a small detail to worry about in the course of such a great tragedy. But then again that's just my opinion.
[center]Matthew 22:11-14 But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless, Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' "For many are called, but few are chosen."[/center]
This is the 'GREAT TRAGEDY'!! That people have God in their midst and they know Him Not! Why even bother to be an Orthodox Christian if you are going to behave unOrthodox?? Personally this does not make ANY sense to me! Then people are going to wonder why it is so easy for the Devil to get in and cause havoc....when u invite him in by continually calling VERY IMPORTANT rules 'small priority'!
People come on this forum and feel they know better than our God, better than our Pope, better than our Bishops and Priests......well u don't as is evidenced by all the turmoil and grief! All your 'dirty laundry' being aired for the whole world to see!!
Get your people in order or get ready for outer darkness!!! And that IS NOT my personal opinion!!!
Honestly, I have seen a lot of really stupid, insensitive comments on this forum lately but I don't say anything because I don't want to constantly start heated discussions, but reading stuff like this really upsets me.
Not wearing head coverings isn't a problem in our church, the priests and clergy in charge make sure that everything is being followed. It isn't your job to look at the women and count how many heads you see without coverings.
If you still feel compelled to talk about women and their head coverings then by all means start another thread and babble all you want, but don't post such trivial matters here in this thread that is dedicated to the youth whose lives were brutally taken from them.
Thank you.
Thank you Athanasius1
Our prayers go out to the families of the youth whose lives took a brutal end.
So two young men in their twenties were shot and killed and then their bodies were severely mutilated and you have the audacity right now to ask why the womens' heads aren't covered in their funeral? You are kidding me right?
Honestly, I have seen a lot of really stupid, insensitive comments on this forum lately but I don't say anything because I don't want to constantly start heated discussions, but reading stuff like this really upsets me.
Not wearing head coverings isn't a problem in our church, the priests and clergy in charge make sure that everything is being followed. It isn't your job to look at the women and count how many heads you see without coverings.
If you still feel compelled to talk about women and their head coverings then by all means start another thread and babble all you want, but don't post such trivial matters here in this thread that is dedicated to the youth whose lives were brutally taken from them.
Thank you.
I totally agree with this comment.
- for your information, irishpilgrim, its a funeral - not a liturgical service. Women do not tend to cover themselves in Church in such occassions.
2 Coptic youths were murdered by some crazy muslim guy - surely this should be our focus!
Does anyone here have any more info?
-> was the murderer insane?
-> was it a dispute over money/religion?
Thanks
- for your information, irishpilgrim, its a funeral - not a liturgical service.
Incorrect....a funeral is a liturgical service. ANY service where there is raising of incense is a liturgical service. Which church are you going to?!
Purity2, take it easy. If you go back and re-read my post, you'll notice I never disregarded or went against the importance of the female head covering. I merely give an opinion on why it may be neglected (after all wasn't that the question that was being asked?).
I never said I know better than our fathers, hence why I classified it as my humble opinion. Furthermore in no way is my behaviour unorthodox, nor are you in any position to tell me to prepare for the outer darkness because of my words.
It is a real shame we are diverting away from the original thread topic. If you want to discuss this further make another threat and the conversation will be happily transferred.
God rest their souls.
Thanks geomike, I 100% agree.
Purity2, take it easy. If you go back and re-read my post, you'll notice I never disregarded or went against the importance of the female head covering. I merely give an opinion on why it may be neglected (after all wasn't that the question that was being asked?).
I never said I know better than our fathers, hence why I classified it as my humble opinion. Furthermore in no way is my behaviour unorthodox, nor are you in any position to tell me to prepare for the outer darkness because of my words.
It is a real shame we are diverting away from the original thread topic. If you want to discuss this further make another threat and the conversation will be happily transferred.
God rest their souls.
i agree totally with you and Geomike.
i made a thread for people who are less sensitive and foolishly changing the subject of this thread.
Mina/IP, if you wish to talk about the issue of women wearing headscarves, please use this thread:
http://www.tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?board=;action=display;threadid=14288;boardseen=1
Otherwise, does anyone here have any news why the muslim guy killed them?
God be with their families.
So two young men in their twenties were shot and killed and then their bodies were severely mutilated and you have the audacity right now to ask why the womens' heads aren't covered in their funeral? You are kidding me right?
Honestly, I have seen a lot of really stupid, insensitive comments on this forum lately but I don't say anything because I don't want to constantly start heated discussions, but reading stuff like this really upsets me.
Not wearing head coverings isn't a problem in our church, the priests and clergy in charge make sure that everything is being followed. It isn't your job to look at the women and count how many heads you see without coverings.
If you still feel compelled to talk about women and their head coverings then by all means start another thread and babble all you want, but don't post such trivial matters here in this thread that is dedicated to the youth whose lives were brutally taken from them.
Thank you.
Thank you Athanasius1
Our prayers go out to the families of the youth whose lives took a brutal end.
geomike, Athanasius1, Zoxsasi, et. al,
Do you really believe this? Or are you trying to insult, conceal or alibi for the true reason? One-half of the church full of Coptic women and the altar full of deacons, priests, bishops and two caskets, and not one women covered her head, or reminded her sisters to cover, especially at a funeral? What is the relationship of this spiritual laxity/rebellion and the underlying tragedy? Aren't the families insulted by this, surely intentional, breach of traditional Apostolic Orthodox piety? I hope so. Sadly, this seems to be just the tip of the apostate "iceberg" that the "modern" ecumenical western Coptic Church is intent on embracing. This same "crown" of women in rebellion also seems to be gaining popularity in the media broadcasts from the "home" churches in Egypt. This is similar to the reverse influence whereby the influences of U.S. feminist Catholics spread their bare heads, divorce, abortion, fornication, vulgarity, etc. "advances" back to their simple, "backward" sisters in Ireland. Why? Does Satan always use the same tactics? Everyplace? Are the local bishops and priests so derelict that these Coptic women are innocent of this abuse? What good do you expect another thread to produce? Just new insults, please. But also some reasonable honest explanation, if there is one.
[quote author=geomike link=topic=14267.msg163460#msg163460 date=1361497675]
So two young men in their twenties were shot and killed and then their bodies were severely mutilated and you have the audacity right now to ask why the womens' heads aren't covered in their funeral? You are kidding me right?
Honestly, I have seen a lot of really stupid, insensitive comments on this forum lately but I don't say anything because I don't want to constantly start heated discussions, but reading stuff like this really upsets me.
Not wearing head coverings isn't a problem in our church, the priests and clergy in charge make sure that everything is being followed. It isn't your job to look at the women and count how many heads you see without coverings.
If you still feel compelled to talk about women and their head coverings then by all means start another thread and babble all you want, but don't post such trivial matters here in this thread that is dedicated to the youth whose lives were brutally taken from them.
Thank you.
Thank you Athanasius1
Our prayers go out to the families of the youth whose lives took a brutal end.
geomike, Athanasius1, Zoxsasi, et. al,
Do you really believe this? Or are you trying to insult, conceal or alibi for the true reason? One-half of the church full of Coptic women and the altar full of deacons, priests, bishops and two caskets, and not one women covered her head, or reminded her sisters to cover, especially at a funeral? What is the relationship of this spiritual laxity/rebellion and the underlying tragedy? Aren't the families insulted by this, surely intentional, breach of traditional Apostolic Orthodox piety? I hope so. Sadly, this seems to be just the tip of the apostate "iceberg" that the "modern" ecumenical western Coptic Church is intent on embracing. This same "crown" of women in rebellion also seems to be gaining popularity in the media broadcasts from the "home" churches in Egypt. This is similar to the reverse influence whereby the influences of U.S. feminist Catholics spread their bare heads, divorce, abortion, fornication, vulgarity, etc. "advances" back to their simple, "backward" sisters in Ireland. Why? Does Satan always use the same tactics? Everyplace? Are the local bishops and priests so derelict that these Coptic women are innocent of this abuse? What good do you expect another thread to produce? Just new insults, please. But also some reasonable honest explanation, if there is one.
What are you talking about? I agree completely with geomike. 2 young men were just severely mutilated and killed and we are here talking about women who forgot to cover their hair. Do you not see the ridiculousness of what you are saying?!! Do you know who you sound like? The religious police in Saudi Arabia who didn't allow girls to escape a school fire because they weren't covered; the girls all died. Things must be taken in context. You seem to have a lot of misplaced anger that you are taking out on these poor women who have already been through enough and did nothing wrong. I have no clue what you are talking about (Coptic women rebellion...What?!) and why you need to bring it up in such a situation.
What are you talking about? I agree completely with geomike. 2 young men were just severely mutilated and killed and we are here talking about women who forgot to cover their hair. Do you not see the ridiculousness of what you are saying?!! Do you know who you sound like? The religious police in Saudi Arabia who didn't allow girls to escape a school fire because they weren't covered; the girls all died. Things must be taken in context. You seem to have a lot of misplaced anger that you are taking out on these poor women who have already been through enough and did nothing wrong. I have no clue what you are talking about (Coptic women rebellion...What?!) and why you need to bring it up in such a situation.
The quote says it all.
was the guy who killed those 2 men (and behaded them) mentally ill? Did they find out yet why he did this?
Its ironic that Egyptians seem to leave Egypt to escape persecution and find themselves persecuted unwittingly by other Coptic Christians outside Egypt.
Was the guy accused of murdering them even coptic for that matter??
I was wondering the same thing, this story is how I found this forum.
The shooter who has a neutral name (neither Muslim or Christian 100%) looks psychotic.
He has a large tattoo on his chest, a trait generally not prevalent with Egyptian Islamists.
As tragic, sickening and saddening as this story is, thankfully the shooter is in custody.
Hopefully they uncover the truth.