› ›

Is tomorrow prayed in the annual Tune?

ebnyasoo3ebnyasoo3
edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Hello,

I was wondering if there are any special hymns that are prayed tomorrow since it is the week before Lent. Is everything the same during matins and liturgy?

Thanks
Ebnyasoo3

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    the liturgy is annual until the gospel. Beginning from the Gospel Response, it's lent. So you say Je Peniout.
  • ebnyasoo3ebnyasoo3
    Awesome, thank you so much Mina
  • Amoussa01
    is there a source for this?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=14321.msg163713#msg163713 date=1362899104]
    is there a source for this?

    you didn't know that?!
    it's all known. Also Monday is the same as Last Friday rite.
    all of this is in Anba Mettaous rites book :-)
  • Amoussa01
    oh my bad....found it! sorry!
  • drewhalim
    This is more 'Tradition' than actual ritual. There is no authentic source that says the Sunday before Lent is prayed in the Lenten tune from the gospel response onwards and logically speaking why would it? we are not fasting yet. Most people say but the Lenten Katamarous is used which is true, but it's also used on the Saturday before Lent as well. In turn the first Monday being the same ritual as the last Friday is correct but not the first Monday of preparation week which is today but in fact the first Monday of the Holy 40 days which is next Monday.

    To me personally it would make more sense if preparation week was annual and Lenten tune started from the 40 days but that's just my opinion.
  • morcousw
    The way I see it, the Gospel response Je Peniwt is the perfect response to the Gospel of the Sunday before Lent.
    If you remember, the Gospel is the one where our Lord Jesus Christ tells the people "when you pray, say Our Father Who is in Heaven, Hallowed be Your Name", etc. And the response Je Peniwt (as you probably know) translates to Our Father Who is in Heaven, hallowed be Your Name, etc.

    Likewise, we see that there is an Evening Prayer for this Sunday. The evening prayer (which is different from a Vespers prayer), is a rite reserved for Sundays of the Great Lent. It's almost exactly like the Vespers prayer, except the Gospel pertains to Sunday's gospel rather than Monday's gospel. That's why it's called an Evening Prayer and not Vespers.

    So I think the existence of that Evening Prayer is proof enough that the rite of the Great Lent begins on the Sunday before Lent.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=drewhalim link=topic=14321.msg163737#msg163737 date=1363019307]
    This is more 'Tradition' than actual ritual. There is no authentic source that says the Sunday before Lent is prayed in the Lenten tune from the gospel response onwards and logically speaking why would it? we are not fasting yet. Most people say but the Lenten Katamarous is used which is true, but it's also used on the Saturday before Lent as well. In turn the first Monday being the same ritual as the last Friday is correct but not the first Monday of preparation week which is today but in fact the first Monday of the Holy 40 days which is next Monday.

    To me personally it would make more sense if preparation week was annual and Lenten tune started from the 40 days but that's just my opinion.

    I don't see how praying in the annual tune for prep week changes anything since we were already praying in it.

    Also, when you say authentic, what sources are you referring to exactly?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    In tarteeb elbey3a, Preparations sunday liturgy gospel response is Je Peniout.
  • drewhalim
    I think you will agree that Tarteeb El Baya has many gospel responses etc which are not practiced. You will also note that the same book quotes different sources such as Alexandria, Cairo etc so just quoting the book alone does not hold much weight. In turn Tarteeb el baya also says that the weekday Psalm 150during Lent is chanted annually after the initial into hymn of Alleluia and Esmou efnouti (there is an Alexandrian recording of this by Muallim Habib). Again this is not the practice and we now have a response.

    My point was preparation week is a week to prepare for the lent yet we are supposed to fast and use the same rituals and hymns as the Holy 40 days therefore in practice meaning there is no difference. Also if it is ritual to change to the lenten tune from the gospel response can somebody provide a logical reason why? why not from the beginning of the liturgy or even matins or vespers or better still Saturday which in turn is labelled 'Preparation Saturday'.

    Note I am not opening a debate on the origin or authenticity of preparation week or whatever else it is called.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    I agree about tarteep elbay'a...it's just i am trying to define what is 'authentic' to you.
  • baempibaempi
    There is an old recording of Muallem Habib singing the Weekday Lent Psalm 150 long intro, then once he gets to esmou efnooti it is the same as annual, not in the tinistia tune. It used to be on coptichymns.net so anyone could ask Fr. Moses for a copy Im sure.
  • kyrollos faheemkyrollos faheem
    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=14321.msg163710#msg163710 date=1362884941]
    the liturgy is annual until the gospel. Beginning from the Gospel Response, it's lent. So you say Je Peniout.


    I just saw the liturgy in which HH Pope Tawadros ordained 7 bishops and after HH's sermon, Cantor Ibrahim prayed the Lenten Gospel response; however, at the end of the liturgy, he prayed the Annual Communion Psalm.
Sign In or Register to comment.