Is there any archaeological or any other scientific evidence that this miracle actually happened?
If so, how far did the mountain actually move? Was it just a shift in the plates under the mountain, or did the mountain actually break apart (hence the name "mokkatam")?
Comments
This comes down to faith. If you need scientific evidence for a specific miracle, then you may be on a very long, philosophical and theoretical road. On the other hand, most people believe the miracle with simplicity of heart and do not need evidence to corroborate what one knows is true to begin with.
I don't have answers to your specific questions. May God give you what you are looking for to encourage you and give you eternal life in His kingdom.
You must keep in mind that the miracle occurred in the 6th century. There was no concept of archeological evidence back then. Nor would you find archeological evidence that is reliable 15 centuries later.
This comes down to faith. If you need scientific evidence for a specific miracle, then you may be on a very long, philosophical and theoretical road. On the other hand, most people believe the miracle with simplicity of heart and do not need evidence to corroborate what one knows is true to begin with.
I don't have answers to your specific questions. May God give you what you are looking for to encourage you and give you eternal life in His kingdom.
Thanks Remnkemi, but even after 15 centuries they can still find some kind of evidence. They still find evidence from the ice age after all.
You must keep in mind that the miracle occurred in the 6th century.
Actually it is 10th Century. I didn’t find archeological evidence regarding the formation of the mountain on google. Maybe someone else will have a better luck.
Here is what I found about the relics of St. Simon the Tanner:
In 1989, archeological research was done with the blessing of His Holiness Shenouda III in search of the relics of Saint Simon. Some manuscripts suggested that in the 16th century Popes Johannes X and Ghobrial IV (see the History of the Patriarchs by Youssab) had been buried alongside Saint Simon the Tanner in Al-Habach in Old Cairo. On August 4, 1991, during the renovation of the ancient Church of Saint Mary in Babylon El-Darag, the skeletal remains of a man in his fifties were discovered.
Not far from that spot a thousand-year-old clay pot was unearthed with an inscription saying that the tomb was Saint Simon the Tanner's. The presence at his side of the patriarchs' tombs was additional proof of his importance. The results of a more thorough investigation convinced His Holiness Shenouda III that the bones were in fact those of Saint Simon. The findings were officially confirmed on July 7, 1992, the date on which three different churches were conferred the honor of housing his relics: the Church of Saint Mary in Babylon El-Darag, the Suspended Church of Saint Mary, and the Church of Saint Simon the Tanner in Mokattam.
In Christ
Theophilus
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=14432.msg164686#msg164686 date=1369088243]
You must keep in mind that the miracle occurred in the 6th century. There was no concept of archeological evidence back then. Nor would you find archeological evidence that is reliable 15 centuries later.
This comes down to faith. If you need scientific evidence for a specific miracle, then you may be on a very long, philosophical and theoretical road. On the other hand, most people believe the miracle with simplicity of heart and do not need evidence to corroborate what one knows is true to begin with.
I don't have answers to your specific questions. May God give you what you are looking for to encourage you and give you eternal life in His kingdom.
Thanks Remnkemi, but even after 15 centuries they can still find some kind of evidence. They still find evidence from the ice age after all.
Yeah but I said reliable. If you want to find scientific evidence for a miracle, you're on the road for a long debate.
Let me put it this way. Archeaologically we can find evidence for seismatic activity in Old Cairo and the Mokattam mountain. Rationally and scientifically what force can cause a mountain to move? 1. Faith, 2. An earthquake? A tornado can't, a tsunami can't, dynamite maybe. The evidence for an earthquake on Mokattam mountain is scant at best. According to this site https://www.eeri.org/category/learning-from-earthquakes/egypt/ There have been 2 major earthquakes in Egypt since 1990. But Cairo is not a major earthquake site according to this site http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/egypt/seismicity.php. East Sinai and Saudi Arabia is in the middle of a major seismatically active site.
But an earthquake that moves one mountain only and not destroy the entire city is unheard of.
Sure you'll find archeological evidence of St Simon the Tanner. Hopefully, that is adequate. You may even find a philosophical evidence for the miracle. But I don't think you'll find a scientific explanation for Mokattam mountain.
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=14432.msg164689#msg164689 date=1369096171]
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=14432.msg164686#msg164686 date=1369088243]
You must keep in mind that the miracle occurred in the 6th century. There was no concept of archeological evidence back then. Nor would you find archeological evidence that is reliable 15 centuries later.
This comes down to faith. If you need scientific evidence for a specific miracle, then you may be on a very long, philosophical and theoretical road. On the other hand, most people believe the miracle with simplicity of heart and do not need evidence to corroborate what one knows is true to begin with.
I don't have answers to your specific questions. May God give you what you are looking for to encourage you and give you eternal life in His kingdom.
Thanks Remnkemi, but even after 15 centuries they can still find some kind of evidence. They still find evidence from the ice age after all.
Yeah but I said reliable. If you want to find scientific evidence for a miracle, you're on the road for a long debate.
Let me put it this way. Archeaologically we can find evidence for seismatic activity in Old Cairo and the Mokattam mountain. Rationally and scientifically what force can cause a mountain to move? 1. Faith, 2. An earthquake? A tornado can't, a tsunami can't, dynamite maybe. The evidence for an earthquake on Mokattam mountain is scant at best. According to this site https://www.eeri.org/category/learning-from-earthquakes/egypt/ There have been 2 major earthquakes in Egypt since 1990. But Cairo is not a major earthquake site according to this site http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/egypt/seismicity.php. East Sinai and Saudi Arabia is in the middle of a major seismatically active site.
But an earthquake that moves one mountain only and not destroy the entire city is unheard of.
Sure you'll find archeological evidence of St Simon the Tanner. Hopefully, that is adequate. You may even find a philosophical evidence for the miracle. But I don't think you'll find a scientific explanation for Mokattam mountain.
I was looking for some kind of remains of the mountain in its original spot...
My understanding, as taught in Sunday School, was that every time the Copts said Kyrie eleson and did a metania, the mountain moved up (vertically) and came down in the same spot. The next time they said Kyrie eleson, it moved up again. And according to legend, one time when it came down St Simon the Tanner hid from the crowd and hid under the mountain to avoid vain glory. We all know the latter part is fairly implausible and most likely a latter addition. However, logically, there is nothing to say that the mountain went up vertically and landed slightly malpositioned from it's original location. I don't think anyone would have actually done any archeological search to verify this hypothesis or any other hypothesis that involves a miracle. But I could be wrong.