Hi everyone, I was just wondering Is it frowned upon or is it wrong to Marry someone who wasn't originally Coptic, like for example if you were IN a relationship with someone and they converted to marry you?
As always, dthoxsasiPhilanethrope, thinks he may be living in a perfect world.
mmgsxxxx, some people may frown upon someone getting married to someone who is originally not coptic. These people maybe in different churches anywhere. What i think one should consider is WHO is frowning on the relationship. If it's family members, than this is a serious concern that i would look into and see if the issues may be reconciled. I hate and disagree with the idea of 'if you love someone, you should get married despite anyone else's opinion.' you can never live in this world ALONE. You should always consider people's opinion to some certain extent.
I think you may have people who frown on your marriage or relationship in some way/shape/form no matter what, even if you are never aware of it.
That being said I don't think it would be the best to marry someone who converted just for another person...that is how issues may arise down the road. For example if he converted just to marry, then you guys hit problems well he may very well file for divorce even though the Church doesn't allow it because he didn't really care much about the faith ever.
Now if the person became Christian on their own or because they also wanted to along with marriage that is great. You might still get issues though since converts may not be Egyptian and then you get the wonderful cultural issues coming up ::)
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=14642.msg166124#msg166124 date=1380580430] As always, dthoxsasiPhilanethrope, thinks he may be living in a perfect world.
mmgsxxxx, some people may frown upon someone getting married to someone who is originally not coptic. These people maybe in different churches anywhere. What i think one should consider is WHO is frowning on the relationship. If it's family members, than this is a serious concern that i would look into and see if the issues may be reconciled. I hate and disagree with the idea of 'if you love someone, you should get married despite anyone else's opinion.' you can never live in this world ALONE. You should always consider people's opinion to some certain extent.
I would disagree.
Mina, as always is being self-righteous and not looking pragmatically at the situation or what you are saying.
You are doing something wrong and yet concerned about what other people think.
My point is this:
Why do you care about what others think if you are not convinced with it? Do you see? Whose marriage is it? Yours or theirs?
Let's say I'm a stranger you meet in a shop where you are buying a jacket. I tell you "No. get the one in black. I prefer it. You look stupid in a pink jacket". So, you buy the black jacket, thinking someone smarter , wiser, older than you gave you the right advice. But I'm not the one wearing the jacket, you are.
You need to be convinced with the choices you make. However, all I'm telling you is that: It would be totally WRONG to make someone baptised JUST for marriage.
Now, let's say I disagree with you marrying someone, making him Coptic, JUST for marriage, and the priest allows it. Frankly, Abouna is at fault here.
We've had protestant people being married in the Coptic Church, being baptised as Coptic only for the sake of marriage, and then when they've become coptic, have systematically tried to attack the Church, they weren't interested in being "Coptic" or learning about our Church.
Now, let's say someone doesn't have a religion - and they don't even care about religion and they just care about you; and you marry them. If they don't care about religion now, and about your Church now, what kind of influence would they be on your kids whom you would wish to raise as good Christians?
I know a couple VERY WELL, who are catholic. The wife is catholic, and the man was never baptised. During their wedding ceremony, they discovered that the man wasn't baptised. They assumed he was catholic. So, they baptised him so he could get married. After 20 years of marriage, he not only hates the Church, but finds it pointless. He consistently attacks the Church, and his opinion about the Church hasn't changed since he got married, before he was married and definately not after he was married.
Who is at fault here??? Its the woman and the priest.
Now, I put yourself in her shoes.
Let's say she's about to marry him, and she goes to a catholic forum asking "Should I care about what people think if he gets baptised just for me?"
Well, now they are married, she looks awfully stupid. It makes a mockery of the Church. That's why I'm saying " WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT OTHERS THINK WHEN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG???
You should be concerned more about why you are happy to do it more than what others think??!!!
It should not be others who should have a problem with this action, BUT YOU!!
You are never clear in any way. Just too many words with no objective.
I'll try to summarize a response: if you are doing something wrong or right (even though it is never that black and white) you should consider other people's opinion for the simple reason that you do not live alone in this world but with many others that affect you and you are affected by them. Sometimes your happiness depends on it. Now, the red line is of course God.
I don't think i am being self-righteous in what i said. I believe i am being very realistic of the natural society that we now live in.
zoxasi, please be careful in what you post next. keep it short and to the point or i will have to start abusing my power....
[quote author=rebecca.ann link=topic=14642.msg166127#msg166127 date=1380602857] I think you may have people who frown on your marriage or relationship in some way/shape/form no matter what, even if you are never aware of it.
That's true. But I don't think the OP is talking about that. She's talking about marrying someone who was never baptised. If abouna doesn't object to that, then there is a problem.
That being said I don't think it would be the best to marry someone who converted just for another person...that is how issues may arise down the road. For example if he converted just to marry, then you guys hit problems well he may very well file for divorce even though the Church doesn't allow it because he didn't really care much about the faith ever.
Well said. But moreover, its a mockery of the sacrament of Marriage. What's worrying me is that the OP is concerned more about what people think than actually seeing this as being wrong.
Now if the person became Christian on their own or because they also wanted to along with marriage that is great. You might still get issues though since converts may not be Egyptian and then you get the wonderful cultural issues coming up ::)
Yes, that changes everything. If someone wanted to be christian out of their desire then great; but then they'd have a problem with someone that would have wanted to marry them when they were not even believing in God.
For someone to truly show that they care about God, they need to spend at least a year learning about Christianity, the bible and to be in regular contact with a spiritual guide from church. It shouldn't just be paperwork to get a baptism certificate.
To the person who started this thread:
Even if both you and your partner are in love and get along wonderfully. People change. You will change, and your partner will change. It is inevitable. The thing that keeps us going is that we remain constant in God. Because God is the only constant..He can keep you together as a couple through the troubles that you will face in life.
However, if one of you is not close to God, with the emergence of the first small problem or disagreement, you won't be able to stick together. Each one will go their separate way because you would not have a common ground. The person you love and cherish today and can imagine yourself marrying, will be different to the one you live with 5 years from now. Things that you find "cute" and "adorable" about your partner may turn into a nuisance. And physical attraction eventually fades (if there is no spiritual connection) and even if there is a deeper connection, it take time and effort to rekindle this. The easy option will always be to walk away. Only God can be the reason for holy marriage that lasts a lifetime.
Hi everyone I just wanted to clarify I am NOT the person who is getting married I am still in school, nor do I have a boyfriend, nor do I want on or will get one All I wanted was some answers from people outside of my family to see if we were all thinking the same thing. We attended a wedding where the girl was Coptic, and her husband was catholic, but converted to Coptic. However he spent at least 1-2 years learning and understanding the Coptic faith and he wanted to convert, not for the sake of marriage, because he loved the faith
There was an engagement I attended , where a girl had fallen in "love" with a boy, outside of Christianity He said he would convert one week before their marriage, and I was thinking these two couples are very different I wanted to know, for my sake in the future if this was a sin
Also I appreciate your posts, and the effort put in to them... However I do have to say again, I am NOT the one getting married... I was using others as examples, and you all assumed that I am looking to marry a non Coptic man.
[quote author=mmgsxxxx link=topic=14642.msg166164#msg166164 date=1380868737] I wanted to know, for my sake in the future if this was a sin
I would say , yes - its a sin, because marriage is a holy sacrament, not an event that just happens. Both have to be of the same faith. Its disrespecting the sacrament of marriage. Its lying also - someone is getting baptised just for the sake of marriage, is a lie -to God. That's a grave sin.
[quote author=dthoxsasiPhilanethrope link=topic=14642.msg166171#msg166171 date=1380909286] [quote author=mmgsxxxx link=topic=14642.msg166164#msg166164 date=1380868737] I wanted to know, for my sake in the future if this was a sin
I would say , yes - its a sin, because marriage is a holy sacrament, not an event that just happens. Both have to be of the same faith. Its disrespecting the sacrament of marriage. Its lying also - someone is getting baptised just for the sake of marriage, is a lie -to God. That's a grave sin.
Comments
This is not only wrong, but it's a sin. Marriage is a sacrament.
There's nothing wrong with marrying anyone who became Christian. That's ok, but not out marriage.
That's just stupid. It means they you don't care about your faith and they don't either, yet you are both fooling God.
mmgsxxxx, some people may frown upon someone getting married to someone who is originally not coptic. These people maybe in different churches anywhere. What i think one should consider is WHO is frowning on the relationship. If it's family members, than this is a serious concern that i would look into and see if the issues may be reconciled. I hate and disagree with the idea of 'if you love someone, you should get married despite anyone else's opinion.' you can never live in this world ALONE. You should always consider people's opinion to some certain extent.
That being said I don't think it would be the best to marry someone who converted just for another person...that is how issues may arise down the road. For example if he converted just to marry, then you guys hit problems well he may very well file for divorce even though the Church doesn't allow it because he didn't really care much about the faith ever.
Now if the person became Christian on their own or because they also wanted to along with marriage that is great. You might still get issues though since converts may not be Egyptian and then you get the wonderful cultural issues coming up ::)
As always, dthoxsasiPhilanethrope, thinks he may be living in a perfect world.
mmgsxxxx, some people may frown upon someone getting married to someone who is originally not coptic. These people maybe in different churches anywhere. What i think one should consider is WHO is frowning on the relationship. If it's family members, than this is a serious concern that i would look into and see if the issues may be reconciled. I hate and disagree with the idea of 'if you love someone, you should get married despite anyone else's opinion.' you can never live in this world ALONE. You should always consider people's opinion to some certain extent.
I would disagree.
Mina, as always is being self-righteous and not looking pragmatically at the situation or what you are saying.
You are doing something wrong and yet concerned about what other people think.
My point is this:
Why do you care about what others think if you are not convinced with it? Do you see? Whose marriage is it? Yours or theirs?
Let's say I'm a stranger you meet in a shop where you are buying a jacket. I tell you "No. get the one in black. I prefer it. You look stupid in a pink jacket". So, you buy the black jacket, thinking someone smarter , wiser, older than you gave you the right advice. But I'm not the one wearing the jacket, you are.
You need to be convinced with the choices you make. However, all I'm telling you is that: It would be totally WRONG to make someone baptised JUST for marriage.
Now, let's say I disagree with you marrying someone, making him Coptic, JUST for marriage, and the priest allows it. Frankly, Abouna is at fault here.
We've had protestant people being married in the Coptic Church, being baptised as Coptic only for the sake of marriage, and then when they've become coptic, have systematically tried to attack the Church, they weren't interested in being "Coptic" or learning about our Church.
Now, let's say someone doesn't have a religion - and they don't even care about religion and they just care about you; and you marry them. If they don't care about religion now, and about your Church now, what kind of influence would they be on your kids whom you would wish to raise as good Christians?
I know a couple VERY WELL, who are catholic. The wife is catholic, and the man was never baptised. During their wedding ceremony, they discovered that the man wasn't baptised. They assumed he was catholic. So, they baptised him so he could get married.
After 20 years of marriage, he not only hates the Church, but finds it pointless. He consistently attacks the Church, and his opinion about the Church hasn't changed since he got married, before he was married and definately not after he was married.
Who is at fault here??? Its the woman and the priest.
Now, I put yourself in her shoes.
Let's say she's about to marry him, and she goes to a catholic forum asking "Should I care about what people think if he gets baptised just for me?"
Well, now they are married, she looks awfully stupid. It makes a mockery of the Church. That's why I'm saying " WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT OTHERS THINK WHEN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG???
You should be concerned more about why you are happy to do it more than what others think??!!!
It should not be others who should have a problem with this action, BUT YOU!!
Is that clear, Mina???
I'll try to summarize a response: if you are doing something wrong or right (even though it is never that black and white) you should consider other people's opinion for the simple reason that you do not live alone in this world but with many others that affect you and you are affected by them. Sometimes your happiness depends on it. Now, the red line is of course God.
I don't think i am being self-righteous in what i said. I believe i am being very realistic of the natural society that we now live in.
zoxasi, please be careful in what you post next. keep it short and to the point or i will have to start abusing my power....
I think you may have people who frown on your marriage or relationship in some way/shape/form no matter what, even if you are never aware of it.
That's true. But I don't think the OP is talking about that. She's talking about marrying someone who was never baptised. If abouna doesn't object to that, then there is a problem. Well said. But moreover, its a mockery of the sacrament of Marriage. What's worrying me is that the OP is concerned more about what people think than actually seeing this as being wrong. Yes, that changes everything. If someone wanted to be christian out of their desire then great; but then they'd have a problem with someone that would have wanted to marry them when they were not even believing in God.
For someone to truly show that they care about God, they need to spend at least a year learning about Christianity, the bible and to be in regular contact with a spiritual guide from church. It shouldn't just be paperwork to get a baptism certificate.
To the person who started this thread:
Even if both you and your partner are in love and get along wonderfully. People change. You will change, and your partner will change. It is inevitable. The thing that keeps us going is that we remain constant in God. Because God is the only constant..He can keep you together as a couple through the troubles that you will face in life.
However, if one of you is not close to God, with the emergence of the first small problem or disagreement, you won't be able to stick together. Each one will go their separate way because you would not have a common ground. The person you love and cherish today and can imagine yourself marrying, will be different to the one you live with 5 years from now.
Things that you find "cute" and "adorable" about your partner may turn into a nuisance. And physical attraction eventually fades (if there is no spiritual connection) and even if there is a deeper connection, it take time and effort to rekindle this. The easy option will always be to walk away. Only God can be the reason for holy marriage that lasts a lifetime.
I just wanted to clarify
I am NOT the person who is getting married
I am still in school, nor do I have a boyfriend, nor do I want on or will get one
All I wanted was some answers from people outside of my family to see if we were all thinking the same thing.
We attended a wedding where the girl was Coptic, and her husband was catholic, but converted to Coptic. However he spent at least 1-2 years learning and understanding the Coptic faith and he wanted to convert, not for the sake of marriage, because he loved the faith
There was an engagement I attended , where a girl had fallen in "love" with a boy, outside of Christianity
He said he would convert one week before their marriage, and I was thinking these two couples are very different
I wanted to know, for my sake in the future if this was a sin
Also I appreciate your posts, and the effort put in to them...
However I do have to say again, I am NOT the one getting married... I was using others as examples, and you all assumed that I am looking to marry a non Coptic man.
I wanted to know, for my sake in the future if this was a sin
I would say , yes - its a sin, because marriage is a holy sacrament, not an event that just happens. Both have to be of the same faith. Its disrespecting the sacrament of marriage. Its lying also - someone is getting baptised just for the sake of marriage, is a lie -to God. That's a grave sin.
[quote author=mmgsxxxx link=topic=14642.msg166164#msg166164 date=1380868737]
I wanted to know, for my sake in the future if this was a sin
I would say , yes - its a sin, because marriage is a holy sacrament, not an event that just happens. Both have to be of the same faith. Its disrespecting the sacrament of marriage. Its lying also - someone is getting baptised just for the sake of marriage, is a lie -to God. That's a grave sin.
+1