Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Tishori or Tai shori
Hey guys i was wondering what should be said tomorrow tishori or tai shori. Since the feast falls on a fasting day do we go with ti-shori(the fasting is not broken) or tai shori because of the feast. also what is the major position in your churches(i say that because i am aware that there is not a universal teaching yet on this subject) so let me know what your opinions are and what you guys personally do at your churches also here is a link where Albair discusses on coptichymns.net what the committee said should be done: http://coptichymns.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=6023&highlight=ritual+comittee+committee
and one more question, will we say Tishori all three days or just tomorrow?
and one more question, will we say Tishori all three days or just tomorrow?
Comments
Hey guys i was wondering what should be said tomorrow tishori or tai shori. Since the feast falls on a fasting day do we go with ti-shori(the fasting is not broken) or tai shori because of the feast. also what is the major position in your churches(i say that because i am aware that there is not a universal teaching yet on this subject) so let me know what your opinions are and what you guys personally do at your churches also here is a link where Albair discusses on coptichymns.net what the committee said should be done: http://coptichymns.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=6023&highlight=ritual+comittee+committee
and one more question, will we say Tishori all three days or just tomorrow?
first u continue to say Tai shory. from the 1st of tot till the last day of the feast of the cross the days are treated as festive days. this means festive tune (with the extra sha'nini parts on the 3 cross days), 3rd and 6th hours, Fai be pi, Tai shori, singary if possible.
now am not sure what Albair means. I personaly don't follow what he says and don't fully trust it. until there is a final decisions on rites from the synod than we do things as we always done them.
Albair is a great person don't get me wrong, and he's deacon's book is a great book, but the book shouldn't be used as a first-hand source....even thoo its FULL.
Personally, I never have heard of a Ritual Committee and if there really needed to be one, the Holy Synod would more than qualify.
hmmmm. the Ritual Committee, which sounds better when saying the Committee of Rites, are part of the Holy Synod. they are a number of bishops that study rites.
Then that means that Albair is a bishop which would mean that he is correct. Only the bishops and the pope (and of course the Patriarchal Vicar) are allowed to be a part of the Holy Synod. Although Albair wouldn't sound to be the name of a bishop. So the real question is, is Albair a bishop?
lol...Albair is not a bishop. he's the head of this: http://copticheritage.org/
that's another think i always wonder about. every synod meeting which is mostly on pentecost or around that time, they publish what they briefly spoke about. now speaking about somthig is diffrent and giving a final rule is somthing diffrent. i don't know what Albair does, i don't really care becasue i don't really follow what he does.....i ment this in all ways of respect.
I disagree about the "taishori" bit. In Cantor Farag Abd El Messih's Deacon Service book, it is stated that you sing Tishori and not Taishori in the days of the feast of the Cross. I even go to further extremes (however most people already disagreed with me enough): just a personal opinion not based on any reading. Because there are two recordings for tishori (longer version), I presume that the longer quieter one is the one to be used in Good Friday, but the other relatively shorter higher-tuned one is the one to be used for the Cross feast, and Palm Sunday. Is that a heresy of mine yet?
God bless you all and pray for us a lot
Anyhow, in the discussion on coptichymns.net you'll find a post where Albair summarizes the 2005 decisions by the Holy Synod, and they decided that TIshouri is to be said. Also they approved of the "new" psalm reply. I guess that is the final word, and I see no reason for further discussion on this matter. Ti shouri it is!
Dear minagir,
I disagree about the "taishori" bit. In Cantor Farag Abd El Messih's Deacon Service book, it is stated that you sing Tishori and not Taishori in the days of the feast of the Cross. I even go to further extremes (however most people already disagreed with me enough): just a personal opinion not based on any reading. Because there are two recordings for tishori (longer version), I presume that the longer quieter one is the one to be used in Good Friday, but the other relatively shorter higher-tuned one is the one to be used for the Cross feast, and Palm Sunday. Is that a heresy of mine yet?
God bless you all and pray for us a lot
in muallem Farag's book it doesn't specifiy anything about the feast of the cross. on the other hands it says:
"in all the nonfasting days, festive rites/days, weekends accross the year, the 3rd and the 6th hours are said, Fai be pi is said, andTai Shory is said.
[quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5794.msg77607#msg77607 date=1190974187]
Anyhow, in the discussion on coptichymns.net you'll find a post where Albair summarizes the 2005 decisions by the Holy Synod, and they decided that TIshouri is to be said. Also they approved of the "new" psalm reply. I guess that is the final word, and I see no reason for further discussion on this matter. Ti shouri it is!
i don't think it's a final yet. we would of known if it is. trust me we would of.
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=5794.msg77616#msg77616 date=1190993548]
I have many liturgy books, psalmodies etc, and they all say that ti-shori is supposed to be said on the feast of the cross
great.....let's hear about some....
You know what. Actually you all are wrong because there is not any book that states this because the Feast of the Cross is not always on a fasting day and therefore you are assuming that [coptic]}soury[/coptic] is what you would say. How about Transfiguration? No, you sing [coptic]Taisoury[/coptic]. I personally think that the Feast of the Cross is a yom efraihy (festal day) and I would come to conclude that you all would too. If we were sing [coptic]}soury[/coptic], then the true identity of the day would be lost. [coptic]Taisoury[/coptic] is said on any festal day, no matter what. And whatever Albair's conclusions are, just ignore them, because he cannot necessarily prove them. He isn't even part of the Holy Synod.
what in the world are you talking about.
This is the conclusion that we got to.
The feast of the cross is a festive day. If it comes on a fasting day it breaking of the rite of a fasting day but not the fast as in it's essence. therefor it falls under this catagory of days:
"In all the nonfasting days, festive rites/days, weekends accross the year, the 3rd and the 6th hours are said, Fai be pi is said, andTai Shory is said."
* note, bballdude23, easy on urself ya habibi.
I appreciate all what you are saying and the reasons you are giving for believing it is "taishori" as on a festive day. However, I think that "tishori" is specific to the Feast of the Cross, and it is festive as well. Every thing else you say is right, but it is not Taishori. At least, this is what most of us believe. What do you think? How do they say it in your church on Sunday?
God bless you and pray for us a lot
Dear minagir,
I appreciate all what you are saying and the reasons you are giving for believing it is "taishori" as on a festive day. However, I think that "tishori" is specific to the Feast of the Cross, and it is festive as well. Every thing else you say is right, but it is not Taishori. At least, this is what most of us believe. What do you think? How do they say it in your church on Sunday?
God bless you and pray for us a lot
ophadece, with all do respect, r u asking for the answer, or u know the answer and just playing games.
Tee shory is not festive hymn.
what ever i say and back up with documens is what my church says.
In the book by H.G. Bishop Serapion, and H.G. Bishop Youseff, it says that Ti-shori is aid on all fasting days (except the great fast and the fast of the ninevites), saturdays and sundays of the great fast, AND THE TWO FEASTS OF THE CROSS
ur' rit....i would love to know why. i'll ask about it.
It was not nice of you to call me "playing games". I don't know why you thought so. Anyway, I go by Cantor Farag Abd El Messih's book and it says that in the Feast of the Cross we do sing "tishori", that is specific on that day. And by the way, neither Tishori or Taishori are specific to specific days. You say "taishori" on the Sundays of the Great Lent, and these are not festive days (just non-abstinent fasting days). Similarly you say both of them on the Good Friday.
God bless you and pray for us a lot
Dear minagir,
It was not nice of you to call me "playing games". I don't know why you thought so. Anyway, I go by Cantor Farag Abd El Messih's book and it says that in the Feast of the Cross we do sing "tishori", that is specific on that day. And by the way, neither Tishori or Taishori are specific to specific days. You say "taishori" on the Sundays of the Great Lent, and these are not festive days (just non-abstinent fasting days). Similarly you say both of them on the Good Friday.
God bless you and pray for us a lot
please tell me where exactly in muallem Farag book.
yes the lhn is not fully in account with the cross but it of general liturgy. u can't say the same when we say them in good friday. diffrent day, diffrent timing, diffrent meaning
In page 50 in the heading before the "tishori" hymn it reads (in Arabic): "wa fi 3eedai el saleeb walakaleel wa 7al zennar al shamamesa wal sa3a al tase3a men yaom el gom3a el 3azeema tokal ...". In addition to that, if you turn to page 179 among the hymns for the Feast of the Cross, you will find it reading "ma yokal ba3d sotis amen ...". You can check it out and let me know: and by the way, what did the cantor in your church sing?
Dear popekyrillos,
Actually taishori (according the deacons in our church) is sung on Saturday and Sunday, but obviously in weekdays "entho te tishori" is sung. I am pretty sure what they are doing is right, although "taishori" is a "festive hymn".
God bless you all and pray for us a lot
Look at it like this. Whatever your Church did today is the correct answer.
The apostles fast is second degree so strictly speaking it's daishoria rather than di, but not many follow this since it's a fast