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Comments
Jesus said "By your fruits you will know them". I must renounce the Vatican, because how much bad fruit does one need to see? People who support the Vatican today are either liars who pretend that "Pope" Francis is not a heretic, or modernists who hate the faith and therefore love Francis.
I like the idea of adhering to the first 3 ecumenical councils. Since Jesus left us the faith: whole, true and perfect, we should not need to have so many councils. The Vatican church has had 21 councils. The latest one, The Vatican 2 Council, is an outrage. It promotes other religions and the worship of Man among many other things. Quote "all things on earth should be related to man as their centre and crown" (Gaudium et Spes 12). It practically denies Christ: "Muslims worship the one true God", also claims that Jews are not rejected by God. Vatican officials have since announced that Jews don't need to accept Jesus Christ to be saved.
Who can remain blind to these outrages? I believe God is being very merciful by allowing it to become so obvious. Now I know I must do something, but I am not sure what. It has occurred to me that true church might be elsewhere.
As bad as it is, Vatican 2 was not the beginning of this church's problems. For centuries before that popes were collecting pagan statues of Greek deities and displaying them prominently (violating the first and second commandment). The pagan images are still there. If you can't even keep the first commandment, how can you lead the church?
Here are some of my beliefs. Please tell me, does the Coptic church hold these beliefs?
1. birth control is sinful
2. the theory of evolution is not true
3. homosexual contact is sinful (and gay marriage out of the question)
4. repentance, conversions and baptism are necessary for salvation
5. the consecrated Eucharist is really the body and blood of Christ
6. So-called "ecumenical" prayer meetings in which Christians gather with people from every pagan religion under the sun; and actually pray together with them; as if we all worship the same god; supposedly because pagan "gods" are manifestations or representations of the true God, are wicked. To participate in this is to break the first commandment.
2. At this point in time, definitely Yes this is what is almost always taught in practice and no hierarch has ever publicly shown any sympathy whatsoever to theistic evolution (however, this is *very* slowly changing at the grassroots level - there are a small but increasing number of young theologically educated *laity* who are open to theistic evolution. You will see some evidence of this on online message boards such as this)
3. Yes
4. Yes - but we do reject the statement that 'it is impossible for the unbaptised to be saved'
5. Yes
6. Yes - however prayers with "Christians who are from a different denomination" are OK (I'm not personally convinced of this last bit myself but it does happen).
Also, why do you object to the view that we all worship the same God? Do you think that (1) Protestantism and orthodoxy (I use the small 'o' deliberately as you have not indicated whether you believe that Orthodoxy = orthodoxy) worship the same God? What about (2) Catholicism and orthodoxy? Or (3) Orthodoxy and orthodoxy (IF you believe there is a difference)? Depending on your answer to these 3 questions, I will let you know whether I think your objection to 'we all believe in the same God' is logically valid.
Why do we reject that statement? When I asked this question a few weeks ago, the Amin el khidma from my church told me that no one is able to enter the kingdom of heaven without baptism. The only exceptions I can think of are the saints and martyrs of our church. In their case, their sacrificial blood, that was shed in the name of our Lord, is considered as a baptism, but even some of them were led by the Holy Spirit to be baptized in the midst of their tortures (ie a boiling pot of water). So is it because of the martyrs of our church you or the church says we reject that it's impossible for the unbaptized to be saved?
It's got nothing to do with martyrs.
Both statements are true:
1. You MUST be baptised to be saved
2. It is not impossible for the unbaptised to be saved (for nothing is impossible with God)
Christ gave us rule #1 and we must never preach otherwise, but He is not necessarily bound by this, hence #2.
I can affirm that the Coptic Orthodox Church is truly a living witness to the Church founded by Jesus Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit, and the preaching of the Apostles.
In addition to the fullness of the Apostolic Teaching and Sacramental Life, You will find many ancient and apostolic practices in continual use within the Coptic Church, that have sadly fallen into disuse within the Roman Catholic Church.
I would definitely suggest taking an opportunity to meet with a local Coptic Priest to get the most accurate answers to your questions; the best way to get the answer you seek is to "Come and See."
However I'll do my best to answer your questions based on the information I've gained during my own formation within the Coptic Church:
Metropolitan Kallistos Ware on evolution
Thanks in advance :)
Thanks for the quick response. I sent her a message letting her know to get in touch with you.
Any birth control method is allowed that simply prevents an embryo from developing. Once the embryo is formed, even if it is for 1 second, you cannot harm this.
The church doesn't subscribe to modern evolutionary theory. The best defense of this is by Dr. Ravi Zacharias. Please search for him on YouTube.
We believe in all the Bible: that God created man.
Homosexual contact is sinful and gay marriage is out of the question. The best Christian response to this is by Dr. Ravi Zacharias.
An adult needs to repent before being baptized.
The Eucharist is indeed the Holy Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
the Coptic church only recognizes 3 councils. The 4 th council, it's more political than ecumenical , and we don't talk about it. It's very painful.
The reasons you have become disenchanted with the Catholic Church are the reasons why I too am orthodox. I love very much the Catholic Church, but I felt it was more political at times than spiritual.
There are even groups who have left the catholic church following Vatican 2 council. These are part of Lefebvre's followers.
Its sad that you are disenchanted by the catholic church over these issues. Many people prefer the orthodox prayer and hymns we have and that's why they come.
Listen to our hymns. They are just awesome.
Glory is due to God, who has made His church strong and triumphant even at times of persecution; whether physical or political. And we strive for ecumenism, but we still hold the same view we did at Chalcedon, and advocate the miaphysitism of Christ. Therefore, we understand that it was unfortunate, but we do not shy away from proclaiming the history of our Church and fathers. Glory to God.
So I went back to Rome. Rome is very much home for me. Thou I feel where your coming from on a lot of these issues and am deeply depressed by her leaders. I struggle with sin and faith daily, to see people who are supposed to be are leaders and models do, say and act how they do at times makes me so upset cause I try so hard. Sometimes it seems pointless.