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Funeral Prayers after Palm Sunday Service

ZoxsasiZoxsasi
in Coptic Orthodox Church
As you know, we have funeral prayers after the Palm Sunday Service. Should anyone die during Passion Week (Pascha Week), then they get buried, as they've already been prayed upon?

Is this correct?

Well, if we've already been prayed upon, why on earth do we have the same prayers every year? Surely the priest should ask: "OK. Who had the funeral prayers prayed on them last year? - Anyone?" - if everyone says "yes! I had it prayed on me" - then the priest can just get on with the next item. There's no need to keep on and on praying funeral prayers on people. Is there??

And then what if someone dies after the Passion Week, who already had the funeral prayers prayed on him? What's the point of even making a Church Funeral for him? He's already been prayed upon? 

It doesn't make much sense; but what is the purpose, honestly, of being prayed upon every year - the same funeral prayers?? 

Comments

  • EsmoEpchoisEsmoEpchois
    What's the point of taking communion every week? "Who took communion last week? Ok you're good next"
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    How can you compare the two?

    The Holy Communion gives you strength. We are saved by Grace, and we receive these Graces through the Holy Blessed Sacraments; the main one being the Holy Communion. Partaking of this often as possible is very good for your spiritual life.

    Having the prayer of the dead being prayed on you, every year, isn't a sacrament.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    Having a prayer prayed on you is in no way worthless at time and important at others, even if it's even minute of the day. It keeps you in a constant connection with God.  
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    edited April 2015
    Good point Mina,
    But I think we need to do things with understanding and reason. If I'm being prayed upon the prayer of the dead, why should I have this prayer done every Pascha? 
    Prayer connects me with God - correct? OK - why not use this time in praying from the Agpeya??
  • Tobit
    Zoxasi,
    With every paschal year we enter into a newness with Christ where we share His life and passion from beginning to end, yearly, for the rest of our lives.

    This newness whereby the cycle of repentance is reintroduced in our lives is a shared experience with the entire body of Christ. We fast, pray, give alms & grow in love all together. Every prayer, including the general funeral prayers are included in this cycle. 

    You're viewing it as just a funeral prayer, but when you immerse your thoughts and understanding deeper in it you'll see that they're for repentance as much as for the possible repose of anyone of us. Prayers in the Coptic Orthodox church have their primary purpose but also a secondary and peripheral purpose whereby where we're always lead to repentance and love for Christ.

    Even matrimonial prayers aren't just for the couple wedded on that day but for all to join in repentance and understanding of the wedding of Christ to His bride the church which in turn turns our focus back to our creator and benefactor.

  • ReturnOrthodoxyReturnOrthodoxy
    I like this Tobit character <3


  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    ReturnOrthodoxy said:

    I like this Tobit character <3



    Thanks Tobit,

    But it still doesn't make any sense. What you said makes perfect sense in terms of why we should attend the Pascha every year. Of course. 

    But it doesn't make sense as to why I should have a priest pray on me the "prayer of the dead" - and then do this every year. How on earth is that benefitting me (in terms of my time and even prayer life) to be prayed on this prayer every year. 

    A good answer to this question could be: "Well, zoxsasi, the priest doesn't know who may have attended the Pascal prayers before, so he's just going to go and pray the prayer of the dead on the entire congregation anyway". 

    I could accept that as an answer.


  • Tobit
    If you won't accept mine, then I'll trust you'll accept yours :)
  • Amoussa01
    Very very good answer Tobit!


    It is not that often we have well articulated answers such as those!
  • qawe
    Zoxsasi said:

    Having the prayer of the dead being prayed on you, every year, isn't a sacrament.

    It is a sacrament. The whole life of an Orthodox Christian is sacramental. Read Fr Alexander Schmemann's 'For the Life of the World'.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    Zoxsasi said:

    ReturnOrthodoxy said:

    A good answer to this question could be: "Well, zoxsasi, the priest doesn't know who may have attended the Pascal prayers before, so he's just going to go and pray the prayer of the dead on the entire congregation anyway". 


    I could accept that as an answer.
    hmmmm.....what's the point of asking a question that you have an answer for...and when you get anther answer, you don't accept and stick to your own biased opinion?!  
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    Mina,

    My opinion isn't biased. 

    When someone says : "This is an answer I could accept" - it means that even the answer i'm proposing myself is not sufficient, but is better than what I've received. Its more "acceptable" than what has been proposed.

    The answers given do not, in anyway, do justice with someone who is intellectually motivated or has an IQ above 40. 

    Its like if you come home and find the TV broken, on the floor, in pieces. You ask your kid :"hey, how did that happen?" you son tells you: "well, there was a movie being shown, it was so violent that the TV got scared and just broke" - that's a possible answer, sure.. but I find that hard to accept. 

    If I told my son: "well, if you told me that you broke it in an accident, i could accept that" - its an answer that befits my intelligence, but it still doesn't answer the question: How did the TV break??

    Im not interested in my own answer - Im just interested in an answer that befits my intelligence.

    Things have to make sense to me (personally). I hate doing things for the sake of doing them, and we lose meaning. For example: Baptism is a sacrament - is it not? That not only brings us closer to God, but its the starting point for us in the Church. Why can't we be baptised every week?? or every year?? Because we are only born once. 

    Despite this being a major event, we ought to celebrate this baptism by being baptised EVERY single day. But the Church doesn't do that. Yet it prays the prayer of the dead on us every year, and there appears to be no logical, spiritual or intellectual meaning as to why we repeat this act every year.
  • qawe
    @Zoxasi

    You're thinking about it way too legalistically.  Prayers don't work like magic, and they're not something we do to simply tick of our list once and that's it.  Prayer is about an ongoing communion with God.

    By your logic, we should never pray the funeral for anyone at any point of the year since they have already attended the General Funeral.
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    edited April 2015
    Qawe,

    No. I'm being Orthodox. There IS a reason why we have Funeral Prayers every year. The funeral prayers are for us. Its prayed on us. I just want to know what that reason is. And I need an educated, or intelligent answer. Any answer... so long as it makes sense to me.

    I'm being Orthodox in the sense that I like to understand WHY we do things, not just do them for the sake of it and without asking or understanding why. There is meaning behind everything we do. 

    Right now, no one has given me a good, theologically intelligent meaning as to why we pray the prayer of the dead on us - every year. Why?

    Prayer is indeed ongoing communion with God - and so why not use this time to pray from other sources rather than "being prayed upon" as if we are attending our own funeral. 
  • katanikhoroskatanikhoros
    They are there to remind us of our death. I think it is healthy to be always reminded of our own death especially at this time of year. I've heard several times that funerals are more for those present than for the departed in that the prayers are made to remind us of our coming death to motivate our repentance.

    Now think of Holy Week, some may or may not die, but we are also reminding ourselves that we are to follow Christ to the end of the road. We welcomed Him as King into Jerusalem, that is our hearts, singing Eflogimenos, now will we also continue all the way to the Cross?

    This is the journey that will take us to die with Christ and on this journey we claim that Christ is the King over us (Thok te ti Gom).

    Thus the General Funeral serves the purpose to remind us that we are completely focused on Christ as King and that we are to die with Him.

    God Bless
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    edited April 2015
    katanikhoros said:

    They are there to remind us of our death. I think it is healthy to be always reminded of our own death especially at this time of year. I've heard several times that funerals are more for those present than for the departed in that the prayers are made to remind us of our coming death to motivate our repentance.

    Now think of Holy Week, some may or may not die, but we are also reminding ourselves that we are to follow Christ to the end of the road. We welcomed Him as King into Jerusalem, that is our hearts, singing Eflogimenos, now will we also continue all the way to the Cross?

    This is the journey that will take us to die with Christ and on this journey we claim that Christ is the King over us (Thok te ti Gom).

    Thus the General Funeral serves the purpose to remind us that we are completely focused on Christ as King and that we are to die with Him.

    God Bless

    That's a good answer. But is it the right one? 
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