John the Baptist Icon

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
I have a question (being the reason for the whole thread). Ummm... why does the icon of John the Baptist show him with wings and holding his head?

Comments

  • Matt,
    I can answer one of these two questions.
    He was beheaded. He was telling Harold that he can't marry his late brother's wife. So he had him prisoned. On Harold's birthday, his step daughter/niece danced at the party, he (harold) told her he would give her anything she asks for up to half his kingdom, she (being inspired by her mother) asked for the head of John the baptist on a plate. Not wanting to go back on his word, he gave it to her. In the Coptic church reminds us of this story that because he was the voice of truth, he was beheaded.
  • Yeah, I know the story, and I know that he was beheaded, but why would he be holding his head? My brother said that it might be because he is presenting it to God. Can anyone confirm this or if this is wrong, then tell me the reason that he's holding it?
  • Dear Brother,

    I am going to attempt to answer your question and I hope it is beneficial. The reason why he is holding his head is because an icon doesnt only show the saint, but also tell his/her stroy. If you look at the icon of St. Stphan for example, you will notice that there is a picture of him being stoned in one of the bottom corners. Same with the icon of St. Abanoub, it shows the different tortures he endured for the sake of Christ and so on...... Likewise, the icon of St. John the baptist. By his head appearing on a plate, it is telling us the story of how he was martyred. As for him presenting it to our Lord, that could be a possibilty as it is the meditation of the artist who is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    I hope this answers your question.

    Yours in Christ:
    Avvaantoni
  • Oh, I understand, thanks. Can anyone please answer why he has wings.
  • Hey Matt:

    Here is the answer to your question by a very famous contemporary Orthodox theologian: Fr Sergius Bulgakov

    "Because he was a human being, the Forerunner of course always remained a human being. A human being can never, and in no manner, stop being a human being: he can never be un-humanized. If John were not a human being he could not have become the Forerunner and the Baptist, or the friend of the Bridegroom, for this is possible only for a human being. Nevertheless, this human being became an angel, was raised to the angelic order. The angelic image was incorporated in him (and this was realized not in the sense of a mere resemblance but in some essential way)." Fr. Sergius Bulgakov "The Friend of the Bridegroom" p. 156.

    So what does he mean by this "incorporation of the angelic image"? He continues:

    "The human nature cannot be enriched further, for it contains everything. Man was created to have "dominion" over creation. Therefore, the addition of the angelic image to man signifies not a change of the human nature but an emancipation of the latter from the lusts and passions of the flesh, as it was said about the antedeluvian man: "He also is flesh" (Gen. 6, 3). It is in this sense that the Church hymn says of the Forerunner that he was ' an angel because he lived as one without flesh.'"
    Fr. Bulgakov "The Friend of the Bridegroom", p.156.

    Concerning the wings therefore, Fr. Bulgakov interprets it as a sign of St. John The Baptist's freedom from the passions of the world. St. John lived the ascetic life of a monk as can be seen from how he is depicted in the Gospel of St John. Such an ascetic life is also called the "angelic life" in the spiritual literature of monastacism.
  • egyptian MATT is a sister :o...hmmm did i miss sumthing lol
  • Hey Matt:

    Here is the answer to your question by a very famous contemporary Orthodox theologian: Fr Sergius Bulgakov

    "Because he was a human being, the Forerunner of course always remained a human being. A human being can never, and in no manner, stop being a human being: he can never be un-humanized. If John were not a human being he could not have become the Forerunner and the Baptist, or the friend of the Bridegroom, for this is possible only for a human being. Nevertheless, this human being became an angel, was raised to the angelic order. The angelic image was incorporated in him (and this was realized not in the sense of a mere resemblance but in some essential way)." Fr. Sergius Bulgakov "The Friend of the Bridegroom" p. 156.

    So what does he mean by this "incorporation of the angelic image"? He continues:

    "The human nature cannot be enriched further, for it contains everything. Man was created to have "dominion" over creation. Therefore, the addition of the angelic image to man signifies not a change of the human nature but an emancipation of the latter from the lusts and passions of the flesh, as it was said about the antedeluvian man: "He also is flesh" (Gen. 6, 3). It is in this sense that the Church hymn says of the Forerunner that he was ' an angel because he lived as one without flesh.'"
    Fr. Bulgakov "The Friend of the Bridegroom", p.156.

    Concerning the wings therefore, Fr. Bulgakov interprets it as a sign of St. John The Baptist's freedom from the passions of the world. St. John lived the ascetic life of a monk as can be seen from how he is depicted in the Gospel of St John. Such an ascetic life is also called the "angelic life" in the spiritual literature of monastacism.
  • woops sorry for the double post
  • [quote author=Copt4Life link=board=1;threadid=1025;start=0#msg17552 date=1105060729]
    egyptian MATT is a sister :o...hmmm did i miss sumthing lol


    What?!?! I'm confused ??? ??? ???
  • I am very very sorry Matt. When I wrote the post, it was ver late at night and I mistakened your name for someone else. I am very sorry if I offended you. Agape

    Yours in Christ:
    Avvaantoni
  • Hey everyone. I just want to say something: the rightest icon for St John in the coptic rites is the icon of the Baptism which is on the right on the "iconostase"..
  • haha...its okay avvaantoni, no offense taken. its all good ;)
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