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Corruption in the church?
I've heard that Bishop Daniel of Sydney payed money to two bishops who then recommended to Pope Shenouda that he be ordained a bishop. The story goes on to say that Pope Shenouda suspended Bishop Daniel for this reason until he could investigate the matter further. This was towards the end of Pope Shenouda's life so as he became ill, he wasn't able to carefully look into the situation. Then when Pope Shenouda passed away and Anba Pachomios became locum tenens. As locum tenens, Anba Pachomios held several synod meetings. At one of these meetings, the entire Holy Synod supposedly reinstated Anba Daniel to the diocese of Sydney. There are many more allegations of corruption against Anba Daniel that I do not wish to get in to.
My questions are: Are these allegations true? What are the implications if they are true? What should be done?
(Note to the admin: please don't delete this forum, if the allegations are false that needs to be known. If they are not, a serious discussion has to be had and it should not be silenced.)
My questions are: Are these allegations true? What are the implications if they are true? What should be done?
(Note to the admin: please don't delete this forum, if the allegations are false that needs to be known. If they are not, a serious discussion has to be had and it should not be silenced.)
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
https://www.facebook.com/girgis.ghali.1/posts/566794607045202
But is it important to clear bishop Daniel name if it is true so the people don't have problems with the bishop ? we have to know why some priests don't like him. The pope needs simply to tell the bishop to stop interfering in things the priest is responsible for. The bishop has some things his job and some things not his job.
The money thing is probably due to bishop Daniel raising money for charity.
We shouldn't have to be the ones wanting to teach bishop Daniel right from wrong. Let the church clergy deal with things properly and let them love even their enemies and try to make peace for all the diocese of sydney
It is for whom Christ died. No one is evil until they are dead. I know the church knows this but she don't know the church is innocent
The whole problem is she just sympathises with people who left the church but she don't know they don't care and just want to use this to take people away from church. We harm the church if we allow them to do what they want but we can be loving. Therefore we can excommunicate in love.
It is not total excommunication if they want to repent just as we should forbid communion for those who don't forgive
Let's say it's true. So what?
Let's say it's false. So what??
The accusation sounds childish.
I know we have problems in our church, and I know that bishops can do crazy things, but why is this of anyone's business??
It seems like such a small issue.
Galatians 6:1-2
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
You can have no hatred but you should also show gentleness
He said if any cause one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin it is better for him if a millstone be hung around his neck
The people who she is harming are those outside the church not inside the church. Those inside the church want to follow her destructive ways
It's not like this is the only allegation of simony in church history - or even recent history. You need to place these sorts of things in their proper context. Clergy are fallible and in 2nd/3rd world countries financial transparency isn't valued as much as in the West. This makes it harder to prove rumours wrong or right.
1 Corinthians 16:13-14
13 Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong.
14 Let all that you do be done with love.
Jesus said not to try to uproot the tares. We all need to not contribute to the problem but this is probably why people are worried about corruption from this old issue started from someone and most people being babies in Christ not expecting the church could have any fault but be perfect so they overreacted
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers
Matthew 23:13-14
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
I do not worry for the priests about this condemnation as much as myself. Many priests are humble and loving and wise and know how to attract people to church without compromising faith but I am not. A priest who is not humble can actually make others perish. They can make me twice as much a son of hell. Notice Jesus never said not to submit to the church you have to to take communion He said they have law of Moses and he meant Pharisees would continue to exist in the world having authority over believers which means priests
At first I did not agree to call pope Tawadros Melchizedek because the glory should be to God and jesus is worthy as He is perfect. But God gave that honor to the priesthood that we may never speak evil of our leaders. God gave that honor to mean He will work through the church just as He worked with jesus
We have to obey the church yet they can cause us not to enter the kingdom, how ?
I guess that only applies to non humble priests they are not our priests. The ones who know they are not interested in truth and especially those perverting church. I witnessed bishop Daniel as very loving person and tries to do what is right while respecting the church
A priest should not have more knowledge than us is the meaning of jesus saying do not call anyone on earth your teacher
If he does he is our teacher
Matthew 23:9-12
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
The church is our teacher if we resist the priest when he is upholding the church we resist God
He isn't our teacher until we confirm he is or we don't know he is wrong if we don't know we have to regard him as our teacher
Another thing st James had the same ability to know the truth and excelled peter in acts debate of circumcision but God gave peter the gift to determine who is correct. James may not have known without peter. The pope is peter first among equals and in this way I just described he is teacher also without violating call no one on earth your teacher
Some things are given because they don't want to lose the flock but they are still sin in church eyes but they give them freedom not to listen to church advice on best path to be saved and they can be saved but harder or maybe not harder or maybe saved just as easily but less righteous . Those who are saved but less righteous are still treated as though as righteous as St Mary. Your not supposed to leave your first love if nothing happend but you just fall out of love and fight. The one who refuses to reconcile has essentially divorced their spouse
I won't remarry if my wife commits adultery because I don't want her to remarry because it can bring God judgement on them as world will be less pure. That's the only solution I see so I follow it.
Just because many can not perceive church is good because of me doesn't mean the priests did not represent church good. But still some may