Hi,
I am curious on the stance of the Coptic Church on homosexuality. I read that the stance is that no one is born homosexual (
http://www.coptic.net/articles/OnHomosexuality.txt), yet we now know that there are
genetic as well as environmental components to sexual orientation. Why does the Church still refuse to accept these basic scientific facts?
What makes today's dismissal of science different from the early Christian Church's refusal to believe that all the planets revolved around the Earth instead of the Sun? In fact, the early Church was so against these claims about the position of the Earth, that they PERSECUTED and KILLED those with TRUE and CORRECT scientific statements. It begs the question, then: what's stopping the Church from committing the same atrocities in the future, if science continues to prove ideas that make the Church become confronted with "uncomfortable truths"?
-- Mina
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A study published in the journal Science showed that families with two homosexual brothers were very likely to have certain genetic markers on a region of the X chromosome known as Xq28.
Link of study: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/261/5119/321 ;
In addition to that, let's think of this in purely rational terms. Why would so many individuals choose to suffer the social stigma of being gay if they could simply "choose" to be straight? I went to a Christian high school and one classmate of mine "came out" during a retreat. He talked about how there was so much social stigma with being gay that he prayed endlessly and even brought attractive dates to prom to somehow turn straight one day. However, he just broke down and cried when he mentioned that he ultimately couldn't change himself. You can argue all you want about the exact extent of the genetic component, but the main point here is that it is rather clear that sexual orientation isn't something that can be changed as if one could flick a light switch on and off. If you try engaging with those outside the Coptic social circle, I assure you that you will find very similar stories.
Another point I would like to make: if you claim to be able to "choose" your sexual orientation, then how come animals exhibit homosexual behavior as well? Clearly, animals don't have a free will and thus can't "choose" their sexual preference. Thus, it logically suggests that there exists a genetic "hardwiring" for homosexuality, which nature has, for whatever reason, deemed to be beneficial in some manner. While the idea of homosexuality may seem like a trait that would simply die off due to Darwinian evolution, upon further research, there are strongly supported theories as to why this is not the case. For one, there is the case that homosexual men could have increased the reproductive fitness of their close family members by contributing manpower and resources to raising children (example: a homosexual animal providing resources and helping raise his “nephew.” In this case, the homosexual “uncle” animal shares 25% of DNA with his nephew, and thus he is propagating an evolutionary beneficial allocation of his resources).
My last point: if the Church is correct in claiming that homosexuality is a “choice,” then why is it that “gay conversion therapy” simply does not work? It has been systematically tested and evaluated, and the results show its ineffectiveness and its ability to actually do more harm than good to the individual.
— Mina
Not many will discuss this since the Church will not change anything about it. We are not a 'dead' Church. We have enough professionals of all scientific fields in all ranks of the Church to know that this is the Church's faith and it will not be changed. Yes, we should maybe learn new ways of explaining that faith on this topic in a better way and in the correct time, but nevertheless, the Church stance will not change.
It looks like the link takes me to a page that needs me to get an account to view the article. But it looks like it's from 1993....so lets ignore it. Only because there are many more recent studies that say the same exact thing. But what you have to understand is "association does not imply causation." Meaning that all these studies just see a specific gene in a specific area in DNA and associate it with homosexuality just because those who don't identify as homosexuals don't have it. This is the same thing for genetic markers of sociopathy or alcoholism or violence. I am not in the medical or biology field, but i atleast understand and believe this.
Now, to speak in general and logically, I don't see any obstacle with humans realizing that homosexual activities are may be pleasurable and desired. To me, the same human mind that has found many other sexual activities that are out of the norm, none of which i will mention here, can very likely discover homosexual activities and live by them. Many people say it's unnatural--homosexual activities that is...and they are right. But, I believe that many have already strayed from the natural way and the sacredness of the bed of marriage that, to me, i would put all those in the same basket in which we are acting only through our flesh and like the animals that we are supposed to be leaders over, not conform to.
@Mina_K
Let’s first deal with this thing about the Church persecuting individuals. First, all the persecutions you are probably referencing were in the "west"--that is the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestants and their reformation. I won't get into too many details since this clarifies that we were totally separate at the time the church had that much political power to leverage. We are the Coptic Orthodox Church, one of the oriental churches, which were all mainly either being persecuted by the Byzantine, or latter on by the Arabs. We didn't get any peace time to persecute others. I will not pass judgement on the Roman Catholic Church mistakes because many others have done so already.
Now, back to the topic. Homosexuality is NOT a command that we can change and develop and understand differently throughout the ages. This is like you are asking to change the definition of sex and how it should be practiced. Many studies have shown that sex, as a physical act, is good for our bodies, and these days people are already breaking marriage laws and commit fornication and adultery all the time. Oh, and there is a predisposition to do so--we are sexual beings and that's how we are created. Now, does that mean the Church abandons its laws and biblical commands and its morality to make up for these findings?! I'll say again, that will never happen.
You mentioned before that you are not arguing the morality of homosexual acts, but in essence, that's all that we are doing here. Even if we consider any other set-in-stone biblical command, following the morality of the Bible makes us children of God...it's what separates us from everyone else--being able to do something but choosing not to according to the morality set by the Church and God.
I’m not sure I believe you can be born that way though especially if that means you have no attraction to opposite sex also but even so I believe they must repent for God has a special will for them as said about the blind man who it was not fair he was born blind but God said it was so that the works of God should be revealed in him
God would never make one born a way without being able to see it as sin or feel it is worthy to repent of it
@Mina_K Hi,
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God
(1 Corinthians 6,9-10)
It doesn't matter if you have or not genetics marker, because even if you have them, you should restrain from behaving homosexual. Why?
Because God said in the bible that this is wrong (not only in that verse that i posted). It'll be difficult to do it, and God knows it, but you have to endure and our Lord will reward you.
There are people who say that "the bible is old, and the church must evolve with society". But even if the bible is old, what is wrote inside is forever:
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
(Mark 13,31)
Sorry for my bad english (i'm from italy), i'll link a youtube video about Same Gender marriage