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Second verse in Shere ne Maria (Sunday Theotokia)

mnhanna9
edited December 2017 in Hymns Discussion
Is the second verse supposed to be Entho TE or Entho PE? I have heard both, (PE from brother Antonious and other sahidic speakers, and TE from the majority who use the commercially used texts that have TE written in it). Can someone with somewhat expert knowledge in the Coptic Language please answer this for me? The verse is translated into “You are the flower of incense that has blossomed from the root of Jesse.”

Comments

  • GirgisantonyGirgisantony
    Brother Antonius speaks Sahidic not Bohairic.
  • mnhanna9
    Oh i guess i got the two mixed up
  • mnhanna9
    Well, can u answer my question
  • ophadeceophadece
    Dear @mnhanna9,
    (te) is right in both Bohairic and Sa'idic. The following word is feminine which is dihriri, unlike "'nto ba bishshin 'nda 'bwnkh" you are the tree of life - tree is masculine as you can see..
    Oujai khan ebshois
  • mnhanna9
    So would te or be act as the being verb in the context of this text, and I’m guessing te is feminine and be is masculine
  • mabsootamabsoota

    'te' or 'ti' is the feminine word for 'the'.

    'pi' or 'bi' or 'b' or 'ba' (depending on how you transliterate it) is the masculine word for 'the'.

    eg. piChristos = (the) Christ.

    try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JlNTGDSStQ&list=PLEEBD2A6EA729E1BB&index=1&spfreload=10 

    don't worry, you only need lesson 1 to 10 to get a basic idea.

    once you complete the course, I think you are allowed to argue with remnkemi and ophadece (i don't dare)!

  • ophadeceophadece
    Dear @mnhanna9
    Te is right in both Bohairic and Sa'idic, therefore brother Antonios is mistaken..
    Oujai khan ebshois
  • Daniel_Kyrillos
    If the pronoun `n;o is used, then the form of the verb "to be" used with it should be te. If `n;ok was used, pe would be appropriate
  • ophadeceophadece
    No @Daniel_Kyrillos.. Not absolutely right.. Go back to your kholagy and psalmody..
    Oujai khan ebshois
  • mnhanna9
    Can you explain what was incorrect with that statement
  • ophadeceophadece
    Hi @mnhanna9
    I am not exactly sure what statement you are referring to. Brother Antonios made a mistake in using ba rather than te. The reason being that the following word (dihriri) is feminine. Is that what you are asking?
    Oujai khan ebshois
  • mnhanna9
    I was asking what is incorrect about Daniel Kyrillos’s comment
  • ophadeceophadece
    pe or te does not refer to the subject, but to the object. 
    oujai qen P[c
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    No. Brother Antonios is speaking about Bohairic Coptic, specifically OB. 

    Contemporary Bohairic Coptic grammar has "te". But there are multiple examples of entho pe in liturgical texts as well as the Coptic bible. (I'll have to find some references).

    I believe Ariel Shisha-Havel wrote about this in his textbook of Bohairic Coptic. 

    This is just another example of how linguistics has flexibility. Grammatical rules are never so rigid, as seen in all languages. 
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