Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
going against society
Ok don't mind me if this gets confusing and idk if this is something everyone else thinks about too but here goes: ok so i was reading this book called Jonathon Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach and its basically about how we as individuals must go against the conformities of society if we want to be achieve greatness, and if we want to find the truth about ourselves we can't be confined to the rules of tradition. He says that we'll be misunderstood and people may refer to us as either a devil or a god but we'll never see what else there is to life if we conform. And if you think about it, that seemed to be the pattern of life for most great people whether its Jesus who was condemned for his beliefs or newton or martin luther king jr. Back then nobody knew their cause, but today we look at them with awe and we realize that they were right. I know that as christians we all must go against society sometimes even if we're persecuted for our beliefs but what about the church? Is it possible to do something thats against the church but to still have fire of the holy spirit burn within you? And don't say no to this question right away. Do we not have the right to question things as human beings? Its one thing to tell yourself that you believe because thats what you were told and because you know of nothing else, but its a whole different thing to believe and know why you believe on a whole different spiritual level. I want to have a deeper connection with God and sometimes i feel like church gets in the way. I still go, i still go along with tradition but thats because i don't want my parents to worry or anything. And yes of course i still feel really spiritual there and i feel very close to God. But there's a different kind of euphoria that i get when i read the bible and its just me and the word of God. I want to believe with all my heart but i feel like that won't happen by simply going to church and praying without feeling, a robot can do that. As a human being, i want to really truthfully believe in God without a doubt. Not just say that i do.
Comments
aghape,
chris
first of all, congratulations on being way ahead of a lot of us.. wanting a deeper, meaningful and true relationship with Christ is not just the first step, but a big jump into actually having that with Him. the church, meaning both the body of Christ (the body of believers) and the building with sacraments, rituals etc, was the tool established by the Lord Himself to guide us. He set it up so that we could follow Him in fulfilling all righteousness. the best way to get beyond the "tradition" and get into the spirituality behind the tradition, is to learn more about it. read the Fathers of the Church, read about the liturgy, ask questions, and most importantly, ask God Himself. tell Him church doesn't appeal to you, and ask Him to show you why He told us to follow Him that way. He'll guide you. also, it's awesome that you love spending alone time with God! that's so amazing! it's key to a real and lasting relationship with Him. get closer by spending more time with Him and with the Bible, and really get intimate with Him. during those times, ask Him about church etc, and He will open your heart to see its importance. living a balanced spiritual life is so important, we need the guidance of the church that Christ Himself laid down for us, as well as the close, intimate connection with Jesus, one on one.
God bless and guide you my friend,
pray for me
ps-Christians go against society, not to be different or to have a voice, but to follow the Truth
so what kind of things do u disagree with...
This is my comments:
1- I did not like you including the Lord Jesus with other men no matter how great those men were, Jesus Christ is our God, Lord and King.
2- Your argument is exactly which Martin Luther followed in the 16 century and look what He did???, thousands of Protostant Churchs with thouthands of different doctrins and war that still raging and generation of unbelievers in the Holy sacrements.
3- As long as you are in the Coptic Church, you are protected, similarly, as during Noah time, the people who were inside the Ark were kept alive and those outside were destroyed.
4- You follow and believe in unknown writer and want to question the Coptic belief!!!!
5- You have the right to question and even doubt, but please for your spiritual life do not go outside the Coptic Church who endured for more than 19 centuries to keep the faith of God.
2. Perhaps if someone tried to understand why people say the things that they say, certain things could have different outcomes.
3. I doubt heaven will be only people of the coptic orthodox faith. Its not gonna be one big egyptian festival with mahshi and macarona bashamel.
4. I don't "follow" ANYONE except for God. Opening your mind to something different is not following. Is it dangerous? Yeah of course it is. But you know what? my faith will be that much stronger because i can know God on higher levels than i do now.
5. My goal isn't to question or doubt. My goal is to know. I don't want to be told that God is the truth. i want to KNOW that God is the truth. Can't anyone see the difference?
Is it possible to do something thats against the church but to still have fire of the holy spirit burn within you? And don't say no to this question right away. Do we not have the right to question things as human beings? Its one thing to tell yourself that you believe because thats what you were told and because you know of nothing else, but its a whole different thing to believe and know why you believe on a whole different spiritual level. I want to have a deeper connection with God and sometimes i feel like church gets in the way.
Hey cremedelescremes, I se where you're coming from. I think the fire of the holy sprit will ALWAYS burn within you, that's why we can only be baptised once... but don't get the church mixed up with the congregation... the church rites are perfect, but not the congregation. Sometimes the culture and tradition may be a little bit "paranoid" but if you think about it, it really isn't. I mean, with the pregnant girl thing, it's the girl's responsiblility to keep herself pure, and yes, it is also the guy's responsiblility to protect his sister in Christ, but like you said, it takes two to tango. So for example, if Bob (sry, im gonna use general names) doesn't have homework on Monday, but Jane does, then it's mostly Jane's responsibility to make sure she doesn't play a basketball game with Bob, because she has something more important....
I know that might seem genderist - I know that's not a word - but it only makes sense... anything that could ruin your image as a girl amongst the egyptians is something that most ppl shouldn't be doing in the first place...
But you're right in a sense. You don't have to follow that part of society, meaning you don't have to judge others if you feel that it takes you away from God and lessens your relationship with Him.
And you do know that God is the Truth. That is why the whole church was founded, because the apostles knew it was the truth. Our religion is straight from the apostles, what more could you possibly want to know that this is as truthful as you can get? And don't forget about faith ;D.
I'm sorry if I didn't answer your question, I sorta lost sight of it... ::)
Btw, if anyone thinks i'm attacking the faith, thats REALLY not where i'm trying to go with this...at all... :-\
For example, the way some Christians can be so cold hearted and judgemental as the Pharisees who no longer have the Laws of God alive in their hearts, but, instead see the Laws of God as a piece of stone. They forget mercy for others, even with all their faults and defects.
If I am getting where you are coming from I understand it this way... Sometimes, you feel a righteous rage at the coldness in the hearts of others and that makes you feel like you are getting farther from God because you see that in your looking at their judging others you in turn are doing it too and it holds you back.... am I making any sense? lol
Also, at times in church some Abouna's may not have as much reverence or give you a sense of the sacred in conducting the mass... (yes, forgive me for saying this... but, there are some Abouna's who give one a dry feeling during mass). I can understand how you seek a higher sense of the sacred in church and that is good. I sense your frustration....
You can't change ppl or your dissatisfaction at times in the church... You can only keep trying harder and harder to maintain that sense of wanting to get closer to Our Lord. I think that what creme meant in going to another church doesn't necessarily mean leaving the Coptic Church... I think it meant searching for another Coptic church to attend where the ppl and the church give one more a sense of the sacred and a closeness to God. This is the meaning I get from it... correct me if I am wrong.
Hang in there creme... Keep reading your bible, going to church and if you want to change churches it's fine. As long as you keep attending church and striving for a closer relationship to God you are on the right track.
I know all about how the hipocrisy and 2 face attitudes of ppl within the church, believe me... You shouldn't let them hinder your spiritual growth and closeness to God.... Ppl will always dissappoint you in one way or another...but, God won't.
God bless