In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, One God, Amen!
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ,
I am back to this forum after nearly eight years. I benefitted a lot from reading the different posts. Now I need advice over a personal issue I have been quietly suffering from for the last 13 years. Please hear me out and give me some perspective. I feel lost.
Here is my problem:
I have been married for 13 years. I went to great length to ensure to myself that my marriage was "spiritual", meaning, no lust, no premarital sex, carefully evaluating my fiancé whether he had a good prayer life, asking him his dream of the kind of saintly life he wants to live with me serving the church..., you know, like that of the parents of reknowned saints the stories we hear about all the time. We fantasized a great deal about tithing and having a prayer room in the house we would build, etc. Especially me!
Then we got married. Everybody was happy for us as we were both dedicated servants in our parish. I then wanted to live the life I fantasized and pushed him to do this and that. He on the other hand began to belittle my "saintly" demands on him and myself. He started mocking me when I got up for prayer in the morning. For a while I focused on myself. But he became a once-a-week church goer, and his prayer life totally dissappeared. We lived like that for 6 years.
At the same time, the ugliest truth began rearing its head. We don't have any romantic feeling for each other. I dreaded sleeping with him, and he never seemed to care less. We realized we were both hardbworkers and dedicated servants who care for others, but more was needed between us than that: namely, a spark! A romantic attraction! A physical connection, and emotional chemistry. This caused a disaster on our marriage, added to infertility, and we nearly divorced. But he apologized and we got back together again. It was an embarassing experience because everyone who knew us heard of the marital friction and kept wondering how come the union that was so much envied up on (as some people later told me) ended up at such a place of bitterness, emotional distance, and barrness (both financial and biological). We seemed to never grow!
We still together, trying to groe financially (which we did), trying to conceive, waiting for God's miracle, but with each passing day, I lose my passion for life regretting how on earth my marriage became neither like the worldly couples who prioritize their own personal pleasure and satisfaction in spouse selection, nor like those saints whose lives I tried to emulate (especially the first four or five years).
Now I am begging God for the smallest things, such as an energetic day, and my miracle is not to produce a saint, but I am just asking for a child. I had wish to raise childrrn to serve God, dont get me wrong, I dont force things too much, I know the balance between fun and work/prayer. But my marriage is so messed up. Sometimes, we act like enemies. He is good with everyone else. I am fine with everyone else. We just don't fit with each other. I feel like I asked for fish and God gave me snake. My husband wants the marriage to continue. I don't. I sometimes feel suicidal. Had I been financially stable, I would have left!
Secular counselors tell me to leave. Christian counselors tell me to "bear my cross." But I have never talked this with Orthodox counselors as most marriage counselors in my town happen to be Protestants. Our soul father insisted we should stay together since there is no infidelity involved in our case. As a monk, I dont know how much he would understand romance and attraction. I am afraid he would simply consider me as lusting for some experience outside the marriage.
What do you advise me? Is there any hope for me? Anyone who understands what I am talking about please help!
I am confused and exhausted from years of contemplating divorce! Help!
Erene
Comments
Thank you for reaching out to us after many years.
You are correct about the lack of Orthodox counselors or therapists. I would not advise a monk to be a Spiritual Father about marriage issues. I do not even confess to an English speaking monk who used to serve at our Monastery, I confess to our Abouna even though he is not great at English because he is married and has issues that you and I go through in marriage. I look forward to helping you as much as I can. Please pray for me, my wife and our son. It took us 16 years to have a child for very similar reasons to yours.
May the Lord pour His blessings on your family!
There is always hope. Christ tells us, what God has joined together, let no man separate. So escaping isn’t the answer. It’s an easy way out, that is simply not God’s will. Is it your cross to bear? Possibly, but this is a very diluted answer. Your cross might be that you might be the only one fighting for the marriage for a period of time, but if you approach it right, then it will no longer be a cross but a blessing. Our goal in marriage is to lead each other towards God. But it so happens this objective gets skewed with our inmost passions to satisfy our personal desires and wants in the marriage. Some of which are extremely normal. Not being able to have a child is a great burden. The one who is unable to provide is heavy ridden with guilt that is difficult to express and the one who is able but cannot is sacrificing a normal desire. Each one needs a good spiritual father and guide, as well as someone to guide you to accept your situation while knowing there is still a lot to fight for, their are other means to achieve your marital goal, as well as other ways to express this hidden love you would have for the child you wish to have.
All that to say, there is hope, it is simply a matter to know the rights steps. Seek, you shall find. Keep praying that He opens the doors to the clarity of His will for you both. I’m sure He will deliver.
God bless you and your marriage.
No. That's not how marriage works. That's an Islamic ideal, not Christian. A marriage in Orthodox Christianity does not say, "..Till death do us part." You become one in marriage.
A marriage is not just about sexual gratification. Not only is that shallow and ignorant, but it shows that you aren't actually paying attention during Divine Liturgy. Sex is lust. I'm human, I look at beautiful women and I am not Saint. But, to suggest that my wife should have sex with me for my own satisfaction is selfish.
Church is not just once a week. Most churches have Liturgy on Wednesday morning, Saturday and Sunday. I agree that the, "once a week.." comment is a bit pretentious.
Her problem is not understanding that a marriage is not a Monk and a Nun getting together. My wife knows all my bad sides, I complain to her all the time, I'm short tempered with her, I rip stinky farts in bed and stay under the sheets, she sees my belly fat, she sees sides of me no one else knows about besides my Abouna and God know.
That can be overwhelming for a person who can't grasp that. I don't know if she needs slapped exactly, probably to set standards for marriage that are a bit more practical and realistic. I can't knock you for being honest though.
Sexual relations, as you say Zoxasi, is crucial for marriage. And having good relations will have an impact on the health of the relationship, but there are many more factors to it. To even begin having relations, the female needs to feel romantically involved (and what is romantic to one female differs with another). Men are physically wired, women emotionally wired. Both need to feed into each other. There may be many stumbling blocks to these purpose in that relationship that both are blind to. We are all blind to our shortcomings and failures. Don’t be so quick to throw blame. Everyone has some blame to take. Always. Laying blame is pointless and a waste of time.
Awesome backups from both of you.
@Zoxsasi I apologize for my impending statements, but your mindset is Arab and Islamic. I married a woman from Cairo. My son, in his four weeks on the planet, has stayed at our Abouna's house, spent the Holy Week at the church and has been cared for by his mother, Tasoni, and his grandmother and grandfather. All of whom speak Arabic as a native tongue. He only hears English and the occasional Italian phrase from me.
I have been with my wife for sixteen years and have fully embraced the Egyptian Christian culture. My son will barely know his Italian side, and that is a conscious decision made by his father.
With that said, I have a keen understanding of your culture. I also enjoy having an outsider's perspective with an ability to analyze your culture. Much of what I see and know is genuine and loving. Some, is influenced greatly by 1,400 years of Islamic presence and about 1,300 of those years in relative isolation from western influences until English colonization of your country. That doesn't mean because I'm American my morality is superior. My morals were taught to me by my Italian and Sicilian grandparents.
A woman pleasing a man solely for his own benefit is abhorrent, disrespectful and a disgrace to our Christian values. That is not meant to be some liberal, modern perspective. That was taught to me as a child by men who fought in World War II almost eighty years ago.
You obviously are not married and are merely in your 20s. There are times a woman may do something for her husband she doesn't want to do to make him happy. That is called being respectful. Respect is earned, not given because of your sex. I do laundry, cook equally to her, do dishes, clean the house and even pick up groceries. Do you think those are things I enjoy? But, because I contribute and help, she allows me to do things she doesn't enjoy with me.
That is marriage. The issues with the OP are based on mistakes that were intended to be beneficial, not just because she doesn't have sex with him. I had issues with intimacy with my wife after we got married, and that was far more complex than not just having sex. Marriage is a serious commitment that many people are not prepared for. There are a
number of details and a dependency on both parties that a person may not understand. A successful marriage is a cross we carry. It is extremely difficult with many hardships, but when you face them together with Christ it makes a bond that only a mother and child can supplant.
If she refused him sex because she wanted to pray, then I stand by my statement: that's dumb.
If her hubby was simply put off sex because he found his wife unattractive or boring from all this prayer, well, I think that's another problem.
I just dont understand why they were going to divorce.
I think it is great to pray together. Especially in marriage. But she seems a bit odd. I mean she is upset that her husband is a once a week Christian. That's just silly.