I’ve been dating someone semi-behind my parents backs for the last 3 years. My parents met him about 3 months into us dating but they do not like him because he doesn’t have a bachelors degree and I do. They are embarrassed of his job although he works high hours and makes a good living. He is not Egyptian and I am.
I’m not sure what to do at this point because him and I are at a crossroads. I don’t want to disappoint my parents but I love him and ideally I’d like to marry him.
Has anyone been in a similar situation that can help me navigate this?
Comments
I really appreciate your advice. I’ve been feeling this burden for so long and I do need to bring it to light. I’ve considered taking him to church so that he can get to know a priest and the church even if my parents don’t initially approve.
If anyone has been in a similar position I’d really love to hear steps on how you were able to overcome it. It’s extremely stressful and I’m unsure of what do to.
Thank you,
Please pray for me.
I believe bringing him to meet the Priest is up to the Priest wanting to meet and talk to him, not us typing on a screen. She should ask and consult with him.
Always consult your Father Confessor. Don't always listen to people on online forums.
Do you think I'm an idiot? I converted to our church and my wife's Priest made me fast before Liturgy and NOT take communion for six months. I converted a year BEFORE we were engaged.
I work with conversions and I've suggested to not accept people who feel they, "deserve" it.
Do you really think I believe a Coptic Priest would automatically baptize someone upon their first meeting?
Meet him, talk to him and get to know him. Not convert him automatically. Where did you get that from my comment?
You’re questions are good and fair but some statement are, in my opinion, belittling God. Did not God fashion our parents in our lives? Did he not ask us honour them? Was it not unconditional? There was no statement of it having to make sense. Did not God oversee us and allow us to be with the priest we are with? To be born In the church we are born? Is this all half hazardous or does he have a say? Would he allow relatively inaccurate and incorrect statements of our parents or our priests as a means to guide us in the proper direction? Why limit God to our thinking, our rationale, our social standards?
I’m not looking to debate those statements, some may be valid in your eyes, others not. But biblically we know: God ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts our thoughts.
Dear mariakha, zoxasi’s questions are great and worth pondering and ItalianCopt is based on experience and a very orthodox advice (from one converting into the church). Go through both in a state of prayer.
May God guide you in what truly is a difficult life long decision. You are clearly looking for godly advice since everyone wants God’s support in their greatest decision in life. Find His will in prayers, biblical readings and with a spiritual guide. God be with you !
And that to you is belittling God because he gave us parents to decide for us?
Well, i think parental approval is good. It is important. Sure. But have you read about the rituals of an orthodox marriage?? Do you know what happens??
Are you aware that the man is meant to place the ring on the finger of his future wife, but it is the priest who then inserts it in the finger.
You can guess what that signifies: that we choose and God blesses it.
The liberty , the complete liberty of our free will in accepting the other person is essential.
Parents can only advise , but it is your choice alone. Otherwise, according to your logic, the parents ought to place the ring on the bride's finger and abouna inserts it.
I find the information and logic given by members on this forum downright dangerous and irresponsible.
Im just stating facts here. Pure and simple facts.
And your meditation is nice, but you have the order wrong. It is first the priest who places the ring on the finger and you confirm by pushing in. God is the one who chooses (following the logic of your meditation). “What God HAS JOINED together let no man separate”
You also ignore the fact that in the wedding ceremony it says to the bridegroom. “Today you are responsible for her instead of your parents.” That is to say, her parents are responsible for her till that day. This is biblical and ritually. The devil is deceitful my friend, and like twisting very basic realities based on social standards.
We have the right to choose and present. But we listen to God through the vessels he put in place in our lives. If it is His will, He can change all their hearts. Thinking otherwise belittles, again IMO, what God can do. I do not speak this in theory but in witnessing several similar cases and seeing God either changing hearts, or all realizing this would’ve been a disaster in the end. But the essential part, is trusting that God speaks through said vessels.
Here are examples of why you should back off on this conversation:
I did not have a bachelor's degree when I dated my wife, and for the first seven years of our marriage.
My wife's parents were against me because I wasn't Egyptian AND did not have a bachelor's degree.
I dated my wife for SEVEN years before we got engaged, most of the time behind her family.
I converted to Coptic Orthodoxy after SIX years of our relationship lapsed, three is not a long time.
You used a vague example of, "many times" a Bishop did not agree to a marriage because someone was not Orthodox.
You do realize a Bishop would only say such a thing in certain circumstances, most notably if the person is not willing to convert, not merely because they don't have a bachelor's degree? She never said it was because he was Lutheran. And certainly not after just going to meet a Priest!!
No Priest is going to go directly to his Bishop after one conversation with someone. If they do, then they probably should go back to their job prior to ordination because they are incompetent, and are unable to follow their Pastoral duties of bringing people TO the church.
I do not know her Priest personally, but I do know the duties and responsibilities of his job because I am blessed with a relationship with my Priest which is closer than the one I had with my own father.
A 14 year older version of this young woman is sitting right next to me and complaining I'm on my phone too much as I write. So, yes. I know her. I married someone in her exact situation.
FIVE years after I converted, I was ordained a Reader.
SEVEN years later I became a Sunday School Teacher.
TEN years later I enrolled in a Master's program in Coptic Orthodox Theology.
She should have him meet Abouna. It pays off. People don't want vast explanations for such questions. They want concise and direct answers.
I rarely come on here, but I felt I was qualified to respond because I was the exact same person she is dating.
Our goal should be to make this young man see the same thing I saw, and still see in our church: Dedication, love and humility in the faith.
It's a quality all of you have, which you take for granted. That's what we need to show him. Not throwing a bunch of self-service about how important we think we are because we're Orthodox.
How do you expect this young woman to react when we're too busy fighting with each other to actually answer her question?
She needs to have him meet her Priest. He will be able to see if he's the right person. My wife's Priest did when I didn't even know it.
You have good points, but they make no sense to the actual question. You blend them into personal rants, which completely changes the structure of the question.
Calm down.
italiancoptic, i like your points.
dear mariakha,
please take this man to an orthodox church (maybe in the next town if you are avoiding your family), then let God speak to him.
please pray for him during this holy fasting season and ask God to help you put his spiritual life first, ahead of your romantic life.
so that, even if he does not marry you in the end, you will help him in his spiritual journey.
he may even come to church and (later) be baptised and not marry you, and if this is ok for you, then you truly love him.
we are all going to die one day. all God will ask you, is did you prioritise your spiritual life and his spiritual life? or did you turn away and run after temporary happiness on earth.
don't get me wrong; i am not saying you should not or won't get married, hopefully you will, but you will have a lot of challenges in your marriage if you don't put God first.
i have been orthodox 11 years, my husband is still protestant. your spiritual life is very important, keeping close to God makes everything else better.
How did you guys get married then (just out of curiosity)?
Let's just say for argument's sake, that the guy she liked was muslim. Would you also be ok for him to take her to a mosque in the hope that allah makes the girl he likes muslim????