a rather interesting conversation....

Comments

• Coptic servant

  May 2005

  hey,
  
  u noe, it's funny...someone asked me a similar question like that a couple of weeks ago, but it was the question "if God made humans, who made God?". I know it's not the exact same question, but it tackles the ideas of God's ability.
  
  In my opinion, I think you should refer your friend to one of the greatest stories in the Coptic faith: the story of St. Simon the Tanner (Al Kedeess Sam3an El Kharaz). Tell your friend about how someone who was very weak in body (yet strong in faith) was able to lift Egypt's famous Mokatem mountains by praying to his God. Tell him how a man with little physical strength held God's hand in his time of need, and was able to accomplish what no man, no matter how big he is, has been able to accomplish to this day.
  
  Tell him that God doesn't need to prove that He can lift a boulder heavier than Him in physical strength, but in faith and His follower's faith.
  
  Tell him that Jesus has already accomplished a much greater and an even more painful task: tell him that Jesus went up on the cross, carrying the world's sins, and dying on the cross for us. Tell him that Jesus rose from the dead on the third day.
  
  God wants us to be happy, but not only on short terms. God will give us happiness by providing what is absolutely necessary for us. If God sees that we won't be happy in the future with super-atheletic muscles, then He won't give it to us...but He'll give us something better (whatever it may be...).
  
  And not that it matters, but one last thing: tell your friend that if God can't lift the heaviest boulder that He created, then God can break the boulder into many pieces, and lift them all with His amazing power like He lifted the Mokatem mountains! (Like they say, 'brains conquer brawns')
  
  Hope I've helped...
  
  Sinful Servant
• Psalmist

  May 2005

  I got asked that same question as well.
  
  Here is what I think.
  
  God can't exist within the realm of logic. If that was the case then God in fact would be limited...which He isn't as we all know.
  
  Secondly...who said God can't...I personally think he has more important things to do i.e. watching over you.
  
  Also, Don't tempt the Lord your God.
  
  Also...everyti,e man made something too big to carry...he made something strong to do the carrying for him....why would the case with God be any different. Now since God is Almighty..what is it the He can['t lift.
  
  How about the Earth...He mad it and is carrying it...in fct we got an enitre universe. no?
• Coptic servant

  May 2005

  so true...
• jfranklin

  May 2005

  LOL....That question is as old as the hills.I've been hearing that for years.People who hate God use that question thinking that somehow they've disproved or stumped God. How ridiculous! God can do anything except deny His character i.e "It's impossible for God to lie",as the Scriptures sayeth.God can make pigs fly if He so desires.Nothing is impossible for the LORD! If He wants to make a rock so heavy that even He cant lift it then thats what He'll do.Then He'll speak a word and lift the rock again...lol....My point is this: God is not bound by time or space.God is not bound by so called "laws" of nature.God doesnt bow down to science;science bows down to the Creator God.God can create a rock too heavy for Him to lift and at the same time be able to lift it.There are no paradoxs for God.YHWH is Lord and Master of time,space,energy,all created matter,all reality.He fashions and moulds the universe according to His own will.Apart from Him there is no Life,purpose or being.He upholds all things by the word of His power.
  
  
  On a personal note Nahda1, you sent a PM asking me to respond but since somehow you have me on your ignore list...LOL...I wasnt able to instant message you as you asked.Just letting you know I wasnt being rude or ignoring you.If you want me to respond in the future you gotta fix the problem. ;)
• cremedelescremes

  May 2005

  that kid you were talking to wasn't looking for an answer, just a way to act stupid and think he said something smart. Something that everyone should have whether they're atheist, buddhist, or christian, is respect. It's just commen sense and anything below it is frankly not worthy of acknowledgement.
• Unknown

  May 2005

  WAT IS THIS IGNORE LIST!!! i dont no wat it is but ive had a few people tell me that.. Admins... any idea?
  
  About this kid... u see... hard headed... if i tell him that God can make that rock big enuf that he cant lift it but then with a snap of a finger he can... the kid will be like no bcuz God couldnt lift it at 1 point...
• jfranklin

  May 2005

  the kid will be like no bcuz God couldnt lift it at 1 point...

  But since God is not bound by TIME(as we humans) or the laws of Physics,God is able to make both points(when the rock is too heavy and when it is not)converge together into one single reality,with the result that both can be equally true.With God all things are possible.
  
  Your friend is trying to percieve God with limited human reasoning.God transcends human understanding.What appears to be impossible according to finite human comprehension is in fact perfectly possible to the One who is beyond the time/space continuem. If your friend still cant understand then explain to him that his brain is too small to comprehend the infinite,unlimited power and being of the Almighty God...LOL...just kidding about that last part... ;D
• warrior

  May 2005

  i know its silly but i had to let it out, the same thing was asked on the simpsons! 'Can God heat a burrito so much that he himself cant eat it?' i have nothing to add to wots been said, u cannot tempt God's ability, and it is simply beyong our human intellectual capacity and even logic to find an answer.
• Luke90

  May 2005

  [quote author=Psalmist link=board=1;threadid=1699;start=0#msg26268 date=1117138144]
  God can't exist within the realm of logic. If that was the case then God in fact would be limited...which He isn't as we all know.
  
  
  Just a question, how is logic limited?
• Unknown

  May 2005

  [quote author=Luke90 link=board=1;threadid=1699;start=0#msg26285 date=1117145650]
  [quote author=Psalmist link=board=1;threadid=1699;start=0#msg26268 date=1117138144]
  God can't exist within the realm of logic. If that was the case then God in fact would be limited...which He isn't as we all know.
  
  
  Just a question, how is logic limited?
  
  
  God gave us a limit. Everything is limited. Logic with us is limited... u could be extremly logical but God will always without a doubt be more logical. Can u imagine wat Heaven is like? No way! God gave us also a limited imagination and limits to everything else. Any other thots?
• jfranklin

  May 2005

  God is the most logical Being of all....He created and endowed the human mind with the gift of logical deduction.The abilty to reason,solve,think.
  
  
  God is the only logical reason for human existence....
  Because He lives so also do we have life.He fits perfectly well within the realm of logic....it doesnt take a rocket scientist to be able to see the Hand of God in the wonders of Nature and the workings of the universe.Logic demands that we acknowlege the Divine Hand behind the existence of all created matter; logic rejects the notion that our Cosmos came into existence through some arbitrary,random fluke of nature--the big bang.It is certainly more logical to believe in an eternal God than to believe in etenal energy and matter(as many proponents of "big bang" nonsense do).
  
  
  God gave us logic and it's logical to believe in God...LOL :)
  
  Though it is our faith that commends us before God and not human reasoning....nevertheless human reasoning usually goes hand in hand with faith of the heart.
• Unknown

  May 2005

  but the theory of the big bang is very logical along with many other theories of how the earth came to existance. These theories are WRONG but they are very logical. Animals were little microorganisms and became more complex as oxygen came and water came and evolved to the world we see today. This is logical but wrong... how can we say that its obvious wen the wrong is logical. What im tryin to say is eventhough as Christians we see how logical nature and God are... many dont see it and try to find ansers to wat they dont understand resulting in very logical yet wrong theories. Understand? I knida lost myself ;)
• warrior

  May 2005

  ok, this needs a new thread, but i dnt think big bang theory is wrong. from my understanding it does not contradict our belief apart from the claim that we evolved from apes. otherwise the big bang is perfectly acceptable, with a slight modification in that it was all controlled by God. am i wrong?
• Unknown

  May 2005

  ok a new thred is made about evolution and theories but to wrap up this thred... i dont think God had any control over it in the theory. Somethin with heat and light and electricty caused some reaction... a bunch of crap causing life.... go to the new thred... thats wat all the cool kids are doin ;D ;)
• Eh Ya Botros

  May 2005

  hey guys sorry this is still off topic...i watched this DVD called the Genesis SOlution. It talks about how evolution is wrong and even has scientific evidence too. Its american i think...u guys should watch it.
  
  Back to the topic, i have been asked that question many times as well as others...but i stopped trying to answer because those people were just trying to stir trouble they went really interested.
  
  I really like jfranklin's post cos there is no way God the unlimited can be bound by space or time or logic cos He made them!Also there is no way the human mind could fully understand God the infinite...we have enough trouble with calculus at school!
  
  God bless u guys
  
  Pete
• jfranklin

  May 2005

  When God spoke the WORDS of creation,when He said,"Let there be light,etc...", indeed there was a "big bang".The big bang of Gods spoken Word...lol...God be praised!
  
  
  People ask,"What was before the big bang,what caused the big bang?The universe,the particles and atoms didnt appear out of nowhere(out of nothingness) did they?The energy had to come from a pre-existent source didnt it?
  
  For years this has caused problems for evolutionists.Many scientists try to get around this major stumbling block by asserting that matter and energy are eternal,ever existing."May the force be with you"...LOL
  
  Because they hate God and would rather believe in anything except the Holy God of the Holy Bible.Because they love sin,immorality,perversion;because thet dont want the good God to rule their hearts and souls;yes,because of these things they've embraced a lie,a delusion.They've cast away their intellectual integrity,rejecting the Truth and rebelling against the Most High God.
  
  Yes,it's more logical to believe that this complicated,intricate,wonderous world was created by a personal,omnipotent Creator than to believe in an eternal energy source that has no beginning or end.What foolishness!That so many people believe this nonsense is testimony to the influence of that old serpent,the Devil. God is great! And thats logical! lol ;D
  
  
• WWJD86

  May 2005

  basically the answer to that question is that God will never create something that he cant lift and he will always be able to carry any rock he created
• Psalmist

  May 2005

  Just clarifying something up with a small experiment and analogy at the same time. I said God can't exist with in the realm of logic and jfranklin clearly says that God is the most Logic. Agreed.
  
  Now take a square piece of paper, on it draw the biggest circle you can. In that circle put a dot. on the otskirts of that circle (the empty space put another dot. See your the dot in the circle and the circle is ur logic, the dot outside is God. And God exists out of our limited logic and understanding.
  
  hope that helps
• Christi_03

  May 2005

  i just wanted to share a quote that i read on one of our sisters signatures...
  
  "If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to Worship"
  
  This quote is really self explaintory and i really like it... it shows us how God is way too big to be dealt with on our small human level... it goes back to the whole idea mentioned earlier about us forcing God and His divinity within our limited knowloedge/logic... which would not give us any answer...
  
  Well, i just wanted to share that quote...
  
  Take care and God bless
  
• Unknown

  May 2005

  God CANNOT lift up a stone that is too heavy for Himself to carry. However, this is not a reflection of God’s being limited by an independent and external entity or reality, but rather a reflection of His being consistent with His own being. If we understand logic to be a reflection of God’s being, an extension of His character, then in this sense, God is indeed bound by logic, for He “He is not able to deny Himself." 2 Timothy 2:13.
  
  This is the view of the Church father Dionysius and the implications of Thomas Aquinas’ understanding of The Logos (The Word – who is Jesus Christ) as the infinite encompassment of all truth, reason and logic. Since The Logos is God according to John 1:1, therefore God must be consistent with His own Logos, and hence he cannot lift up a stone which is too heavy for Him to carry, because the task itself is unreasonable and contradictory and hence inconsistent with the very character of God, which is in itself perfectly reasonable and logical, by and through His Logos. For God to perform such an act, it would be for Him to deny His Logos – to deny His Self.
  
  Peace.
  
• mazza

  May 2005

  hey how old is dis kid?