Lets not get carried away with turning the other cheek… in fight in school you do not turn your other cheek, or you will do a lot of turning… judge with righteous judgment, as written in the book of John… in fight your self defense is get out of the situation, and go tell the authority of the place you are in… its your right… and if you are getting raped, and don’t worry and say I have to turn the other cheek… that is not smart… we Christians are brave, do not confuse turn the other cheek, and be a coward… for cowards don’t make it to heaven, according to the book of revelation. So if you are getting raped you push the person… the law gives you the right to kill the person… I don’t know about the church law… but do what is in your power to get out of the situation…
Why stop at hitting them. If somebody is trying to RAPE you then you have the right to kill them and you can justify it. It’s called manslaughter in legal terms. Not such a bad thing if you ask me.
Yeah in legal terms...but in church terms it's not...There is something called forgivness Yes as bad as raping u can forgive the person...defend ursellf against them and try to escape but don't go as far as killing...
Mike... i dont think its rong. u hafta do it or else u will get killed or punished. if u dont do ur job u get in trouble and if ur in a war and wont shoot ur gun... odds r ur gonna get killed.
Marianne... u gotta be kiddin! forgivness is ok... but getting raped and not doing anything then confessing is rong. like bishoy sed... turn the other cheek to a point but dont be a coward. honestly... if u were gettin raped u would realize and ud get this huge burst of adrenaline and hurt the person raping u pretty bad.
I didn't say just stand there and get raped...what I said is just try everything in ur power but don't take it to the point of killing..I am sure it's not fun getting raped or w/e...but there is nothing that justify Thou Shall not kill...so ya try ur hardest to escape to hurt them so u can escape but don't take it to the point of killing.
But thats the old testament .. God had purposes in mind.. He doesnt tell us to kill anymore.. if He did we should obey.. First off you shouldnt be in war anyway. But if you are there maybe this verse as hard as it sounds applys "If anyone desires to save his life will lose it and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it" Because you could be putting someone in hell.. But I seem to agree with you but ..... though I see it could be Gods will that He dies not anyway but u dont know. You can wound a person bad without killing them right ? and then maybe u can talk to them about Christ they might listen since you spared their life?
the reason I ask it because I was reading a site by a respected person and thats what he believes.. his other articles seem good. But that doesnt mean I have to agree with everything he sees just the TRUTH.
"But if he strikes him with an iron implement, so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. And if he strikes him with a stone in the hand, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death." (Numbers 35:16-17)
this verse says exactly my point... but also if you commit adultry you are to be stoned to death. death was a popular punishment...lol
but don't take it to the point of killing
I agree... that is what I said...
the law gives you the right to kill the person… I don’t know about the church law… but do what is in your power to get out of the situation…
as you see I used as a way of an extreme... but if it is the only way to get out of the situation... you have all right to do it.
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[b]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. 23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.
25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.
I heard from someone that Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to change it so murder is wrong and it was justified to the people of the Old Testament because God has to set them rules and give them a circumstance for every action. Now, God is showing the temptation, the desire and the action, and for everyone of that there is a circumstance, like the murder one, He is telling us whoever is mad at his brother will have commited murder, because it might lead to that, but He by no means is justifying murder for us now.
No one is justifying it... but we are saying if it is the only way... I would do it... and all should also... God forbid, if that happens to one of my sisters... I will not be satisfied except when that person(s) head(s) are served to me on a tray, among other things... I am not saying it is right... I am saying the practical thing.
sorry to say such words of hate... I am just saying what I would do...
[quote author=mikeforchrist link=board=1;threadid=1848;start=15#msg28232 date=1118635446] you can pray to God and He will protect you.. I dont know if you have to go to the point of killing... ?
Exactly...I don't know why are we justifying something that is WRONG and God commanded us that it is WRONG.
[quote author=MarMar91 link=board=1;threadid=1848;start=15#msg28207 date=1118626664] i know, i cant imagine, but i mean, in a practical situation, what would u kill them with? I knwo i dont carry a knife or gun with me.... and there is no way i could kill someone with my own strength
You'd be surprised how much damage you can do... Punch them in the Adams-apple. Their trachea will collapse and they will probably die. Also, keep keys handy. But keep in mind; this is only if you’re in a SERIOUS emergency.
What do you know...Being crucified was better than being raped ::)
I don't think anything is worse than what Christ went through and he turned the other cheek..I'm not saying to go along with it but don't get too violent either..I mean, Christ DID ask, "Why do you strike me?" when he was slapped but he said nothing wrong..a sin is a sin no matter what situation you're in..in rape, in death, and in fights. If God brought you to it, he'll pull you through it..I once heard this amazing lecture can't remember by who..anyway, the speaker said, the devil is the easiest way to everything..he gives the impossible solutions..so don't take the easy way and like stab someone who's trying to rape you..that's still murder no matter what..If you don't mind me saying, did you ever think about praying or doing the cross? I know it's cliche but I've heard amazing miracles through such..if God sends you such a situation, he's not doing it to check you're stabbing, kicking and/or punching skills..this isn't entertainment..If you're going to stab someone who is trying to rape you, you might as well stab everyone in the whole darn world who's trying to do you harm..
just want to make a slight clarification on the previous post.
When Christ was being tried, and he was slapped, and he responsed, "Why did you slap me," it was not that Christ was reacting because he was upset that he got slapped. NO.
Anba Youssef explains that the reason Christ said, "Why did you slap me," was because He wanted to make clear that he was innocent, which was required for salvation through His death on the Cross. In the old testament, the sacrificial lamb which carried the people's sins was required to be unblemished. So too, the person who was to give us our salvation through a bloody sacrifice would have to be unblemished. So Christ was not responding in self-defense or for dignity's sake, but was just making the point that He is without sin and was being crucified as a sinless lamb.
I hear that many people use this verse as a justification for defending themselves, ... you'll often here egyptians say something about "karama, karamti"... I think that means dignity.... you'll often here people say, I won't let people run over me... I have to fight for myself, for my dignity... and they often use this verse. That is wrong. (according to Anba Youssef, with whom I agree)
YES... DEFINITELY agree with the last post. No man-made law is above God's law... if the "authority" tells me to do something sinful, ... then when choosing between God and Man... we must choose God. So the idea that we should just follow authority because it says so in the bible doesn't take into account all the other verses that Christ said...
I say do whatever it takes to get out of the situation. If it takes killing, then kill. And if it takes a simple injury then lucky you. But, like what some people before said, don't just stand there and watch.
[quote author=Christ4Life link=board=1;threadid=1848;start=30#msg29527 date=1119801247] I say do whatever it takes to get out of the situation. If it takes killing, then kill. And if it takes a simple injury then lucky you. But, like what some people before said, don't just stand there and watch.
Comments
Hope I helped…
Marianne... u gotta be kiddin! forgivness is ok... but getting raped and not doing anything then confessing is rong. like bishoy sed... turn the other cheek to a point but dont be a coward. honestly... if u were gettin raped u would realize and ud get this huge burst of adrenaline and hurt the person raping u pretty bad.
Killing for war isn't a sin. YOU aren't actually killing; your country is. You're just submitting to authority.
just throwing it as food for thought... I know it not the topic...
First off you shouldnt be in war anyway.
But if you are there maybe this verse as hard as it sounds applys
"If anyone desires to save his life will lose it and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it"
Because you could be putting someone in hell.. But I seem to agree with you but ..... though I see it could be Gods will that He dies not anyway but u dont know.
You can wound a person bad without killing them right ? and then maybe u can talk to them about Christ they might listen since you spared their life?
the reason I ask it because I was reading a site by a respected person and thats what he believes.. his other articles seem good.
But that doesnt mean I have to agree with everything he sees just the TRUTH.
this verse says exactly my point... but also if you commit adultry you are to be stoned to death. death was a popular punishment...lol I agree... that is what I said... as you see I used as a way of an extreme... but if it is the only way to get out of the situation... you have all right to do it.
sorry to say such words of hate... I am just saying what I would do...
you can pray to God and He will protect you.. I dont know if you have to go to the point of killing... ?
Exactly...I don't know why are we justifying something that is WRONG and God commanded us that it is WRONG.
i know, i cant imagine, but i mean, in a practical situation, what would u kill them with? I knwo i dont carry a knife or gun with me.... and there is no way i could kill someone with my own strength
You'd be surprised how much damage you can do... Punch them in the Adams-apple. Their trachea will collapse and they will probably die. Also, keep keys handy. But keep in mind; this is only if you’re in a SERIOUS emergency.
This has gotten beyond the topic... Please get back on track or this discussion will be locked.
-Tasbeha.org
I don't think anything is worse than what Christ went through and he turned the other cheek..I'm not saying to go along with it but don't get too violent either..I mean, Christ DID ask, "Why do you strike me?" when he was slapped but he said nothing wrong..a sin is a sin no matter what situation you're in..in rape, in death, and in fights. If God brought you to it, he'll pull you through it..I once heard this amazing lecture can't remember by who..anyway, the speaker said, the devil is the easiest way to everything..he gives the impossible solutions..so don't take the easy way and like stab someone who's trying to rape you..that's still murder no matter what..If you don't mind me saying, did you ever think about praying or doing the cross? I know it's cliche but I've heard amazing miracles through such..if God sends you such a situation, he's not doing it to check you're stabbing, kicking and/or punching skills..this isn't entertainment..If you're going to stab someone who is trying to rape you, you might as well stab everyone in the whole darn world who's trying to do you harm..
When Christ was being tried, and he was slapped, and he responsed, "Why did you slap me," it was not that Christ was reacting because he was upset that he got slapped. NO.
Anba Youssef explains that the reason Christ said, "Why did you slap me," was because He wanted to make clear that he was innocent, which was required for salvation through His death on the Cross. In the old testament, the sacrificial lamb which carried the people's sins was required to be unblemished. So too, the person who was to give us our salvation through a bloody sacrifice would have to be unblemished. So Christ was not responding in self-defense or for dignity's sake, but was just making the point that He is without sin and was being crucified as a sinless lamb.
I hear that many people use this verse as a justification for defending themselves, ... you'll often here egyptians say something about "karama, karamti"... I think that means dignity.... you'll often here people say, I won't let people run over me... I have to fight for myself, for my dignity... and they often use this verse. That is wrong. (according to Anba Youssef, with whom I agree)
lets hope tha wont happen to no one but its not a sin
God Bless
[glow=red,2,300]Marina Botros[/glow]
Very pondering concept by the way
I say do whatever it takes to get out of the situation. If it takes killing, then kill. And if it takes a simple injury then lucky you. But, like what some people before said, don't just stand there and watch.
Very pondering concept by the way
Amen to that... lol