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JESUS DESCENDING INTO HADES
WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT STATE THAT JESUS, AFTER HE WAS CRUCIFIED, AND DIED, DESCENDED INTO HADES, HAD AUTHORITY OVER SATAN AND OPENED THE GATES RELEASING THE SOULS OF THOSE WHO WERE DEAD?
Comments
Revelation 20:1 -3
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
i'm not a zillion procent sure, but this is all i could find. Some may say that the angel in the previous verse is Christ cause he is the one who laid hold on satan after he conquered on the cross, and thats when the millanial reign started. If anybody knows more, please share...
Verses on this are 1 Peter 4:6
" For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. " NASB
And the classic proof-text, 1 Pet. 3:18—21
" For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, " NASB
You can find reference to this in http://www.suscopts.org/stgeorgetampa/salvation_in_the_orthodox_1.html
For the very best Orthodox explanation of this I can find in English, see Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: Christ the Conqueror of Hell : The Descent of Christ into Hades in Eastern and Western Theological Traditions
http://orthodoxeurope.org/page/11/1/5.aspx
Attached below is a Coptic icon of this from www.coptic.org/ stmarkno/aprl97.htm :
Okay, I laid down the facts....it's your job to come up with the conclusions....
very helpful.
u_stole_my_name are u tellin me that the early fathers believed that even the sodomites and the idoleters that died and went to hades were "delivered from there by Christ. "
Heresy.
Then allow me to submit the following:
Eusebius of Alexandria: "Christ will descend that in order that all, both on earth and in heaven and in hades, may obtain salvation from Him."
Saint Athanasius: "While the devil thought to kill one he is deprived of all .....cast out of hades, and sitting by the gates, sees all the fettered beings led forth by the courage of the Saviour."
Basil of Seleucia: "That which happened to the visible tomb (i.e. it was emptied upon His rising), the same happened to Hades the invisible."
M.F. Victorinus: "The Saviour descends into hades by that Passion of the Cross in order that He may set free every soul."
Dydimus (translated by, and therefore endorsed by, Saint Ambrose): "In the liberation of all no one remains a captive; at the time of the Lord's Passion he alone (the devil) was injured, who lost all the captives he was keeping."
St. Gregory of Nazianzus: "...until Christ loosed by His blood all who groan under Tartarean chains."
St. Gregory of Nazianzus: ".....all of whom (the dead) Thou shalt bring forth as Thy spoils from Hades."
St. Gregory of Nazianzus: "I believe Thou wilt bring forth from Hades as many mortals as it has imprisoned."
Ambrosiaster: "Christ snatched from hades all the devil lost, together with Christ, all whom he was keeping."
St. Jerome: "Our Lord descends....and was shut up in the eternal bars, in order that He might set free all who had been shut up."
St. Jerome: "The Lord descended to the place of punishment and torment, in which was the rich man (i.e. the one from the parable of Lazarus and the rich man) in order to liberate the prisoners."
Caesarius of Arles (repeated in St. Jerome's works, and therefore endorsed by him): "The eternal night of hell is illuminated as Christ descends.....the bonds of the damned, torn asunder, fell away.......every cry of the groaing is still. The captive souls loosed from bonds go forth from hell, and the Apostle's words come true, 'In Jesus' Name every knee bends of things in heaven, and earth, and under the earth."
Epiphanius: "Christ, like a swift-winged hawk, snatched away all that He had from the beginning, from the devil and left him (i.e. the devil) deserted."
St. John Chrysostom: "While the devil imagined that he had got hold of Christ, he lost all, in fact, whom he was keeping."
St. John Chrysostom: "The fire of hell is extinguished, the sleepless worm dies.....those who were in hades are set free from the bonds of the devil."
St. Cyril of Alexandria: "(Christ spoiled Hades) and left the devil there solitary and deserted."
St. Cyril of Alexandria: "Christ, wandering down even to Hades, has emptied the dark, hidden, unseen treasuries."
St. Peter Chrysologus: "The rule of hell perishes.....and all obtain pardon."
Proclus of Constantinople: "Today Christ emptied the entire treasury of death."
Proclus of Constantinople: "All the dead, wondering at His Passion, cry for joy, 'We are healed by His stripes!'"
Note: every single one of these quoted were pre-451 Fathers, so they are within the folds/heritage of the Holy Coptic Orthodox Church.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
u tellin me all the people that God himself killed, were rased up with Abraham, Noah, Jacob, Issac, Joesph?
"Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD."
then Nadab and Abihu were raised?
by reading the old testement u see that there where many evil doers, ur saying they were rasied to paradise?
"Christ will descend that in order that all, both on earth and in heaven and in hades, may obtain salvation from Him."
"all in hades"
so christ freed satan?
think bout it.
quote from the bible.
contridictory.
ask urself how does that make sense?
how is that ethical?
how is that fair?
how is that Christian?
u think that people who were, like i said b4, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, sodomites, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, or extortioners will be amongst the saints in paradise?
They got what they deserved: they were tormented by the devil for all those hundreds of years!
And besides.....that's precisely the point: Christ's Victory and Liberation were out of boundless Mercy.....so you're right: it's not "fair" or "just".
they were given passage to heaven?
where in our belief do we profess that people got a second chance?
and u fail to mention the unforgivable sin,
wat if these ppl who were in hades did not repent and still did not seek repentace?
they were let into heaven.
no mater wateva way u say it, no matter if they were punished our faith cant profess that, if we did, then why wen ppl go to hades now after 1000s of yrs God doesnt say, uve had enough come to heaven??
think bout it..
G.J.I:
And besides.....that's precisely the point: Christ's Victory and Liberation were out of boundless Mercy.....so you're right: it's not "fair" or "just".
how can God offer that to them and not to every one?
" For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient...."
that verse was just quoted like 10 posts ago.
so that also means judas is in heaven??
Whoever said that Judas died before Christ died? (unless we equate narrative chronology with temporal chronology......which is doubtful considering that the gospels themselves differ on the chronology of some events....for example, the point at which Jesus drove out the buyers and sellers from the Temple).
but lets just say he did, that means he wood be eligible to be raised to heaven?
which is another contrediction to this belief as if says the one who betrays the son of man, it woodve been better from not to have been born...
And besides.....even if I were to grant the "traditional" (corrupted) interpretation of that verse, what does that mean?
That logic would go something like this: Jesus said that it was better for Judas for him never to have been born, therefore Jesus was saying that Judas could not be released from hades. How does that follow? Nowhere does Jesus mention HOW or WHY it would be better for him never to have been born. It's not like He adds, "....because he's going to spend eternity in hades without chance of release". We could only be certain of that interpretation if Jesus added that clause, which He didn't.
He could have meant that Judas, even if only for a few hours, will suffer such outrageous torments that it would outweigh "moderate" torments of other sinners who were tormented for centuries. He could have meant anything by that statement. The interpretation you give is only one possible out of thousands.
And besides....it's just a rhetorical device.....We can't actually imagine that God, who brought every single individual into existence by His own Will, would wish that one of these people were actually not born!
and u fail to mention the unforgivable sin,
Actually, many of the Fathers believed that the "unforgiveable" sin could, in fact, be forgiven. (But please don't make me go throught quoting two dozen Fathers again.... :-\)
see i believe that the were in the righteous section were freed.
"even if I were to grant the "traditional" (corrupted) interpretation of that verse"
corrupted??
whose this thomas allin guy?
is he orthodox?
why is hes comtimplation correct and our coptic orthodox wrong?
i think we wont come to an agreement,
we need iqbal.
whose this thomas allin guy?
is he orthodox?
why is hes comtimplation correct and our coptic orthodox wrong?
He's actually a traditional Anglican from the 19th century. He had a lot of respect for the Fathers, so he "may as well have" been Orthodox. And the Coptic Orthodox Church, to my knowledge, does not officially endorse the view that the "him" in that verse was referring to Judas rather than Jesus. And if someone's reasoning is correct, it is correct irrespective of his/her being Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Satanist, etc.
ok the sections in hades part is good, but u think that the ppl bein tourmented were freed?
Yes....I do think that. Christ "broke their chains". Why would people like Saint David, the King, Psalmist, and Prophet (my name Saint, by the way) be in chains?.....unless, of course, it is referring to the un-righteous dead.
AND YES OUR CHURCH DOES BELIEVE IT WAS REFERING TO JUDAS, I HEARD A SERMON FROM POPE SHENUDA AND HE REFERED TO IT.
SEE ANGLICAN, THERES THE PROBLEM RIGHT THERE, THE PEOPLE WHOSE RELIGIOUS VIEWS RELFLEST REBELLION RATHER THAT THEOLOGY, THERE BELIEFS ARE BASED ON BELIEVING IN SUCH IDEALS WHICH GO AGAINST OUR CHURCH.
I STILL BELIEVE TO PROFESS THIS IS HERESY, LOOK AT THE ORTHODOX CHURCH BELIEFS NOT OTHERS.
IN ANY CASE, LYK I SAID WE WILL NOT AGREE, SO LETS LEAVE IT TO IQBAL, TO SORT IT OUT.
"And if someone's reasoning is correct, it is correct irrespective of his/her being Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Satanist, etc."
AGAIN DISAGREE
WHOSE TO DEFINE CORRECT.
SATANIST-DONT THINK SO BUDDY
AS U SAID "according to Thomas Allin"
NOT ACCORDING TO OUR CHURCH
AND ACCORDING TO WHO HE IS RITE?
TO U?
DOESNT MAKE IT RITE.
IF A SATANIST PROCLAIM WAT THIS MAN SAID IS RITE,
STILL DOESNT MAKE IT RIGHT.