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GIVING WITHOUT QUESTION
Found at www.coptic.org.au a forum discussing Giving without question.
Here are some examples of the posts there;
"This topic is to discuss "giving without question".
Let me start with a question. If a homless man/woman in the city asks for $2, as christians do we put our hand in our pocket and give? Or do we question where this money will end up?"
Answers to the Question include;
"I think that we should give to anyone who asks as our Lord said "Freely you have been given, freely give".
The money that we have is a gift from God, and as christians we are obliged to share and give to others. "
and
"Very interesting topic...permit me to add my two cents to the discussion...
in regard to the original question posted by Tad....
I walk through the city everyday and see many of these beggars, buskers, and homeless persons....i always tend to turn a blind eye, and if im asked for '$2 for my bus fare home', i usually interpret that as '$2 for my drug addiction'...i am not one to judge, because there are many people out there with differing situations and predicaments...but i would like to put forward a thought...one that is not my own, but i have heard this done before...if you are approached by a beggar for some spare change, why dont you kindly offer to buy him a sandwich with the money instead...i think it would be safe to say that such a thing would not be appreciated...
there is a homeless man i see everyday...every morning i see him with two big bags of stale bread, which i assume he obtained from the nearby bakery...i see him sitting on the park bench, feeding the pigeons with this bread...and every day i think to myself, 'if this guy was so hungry and homeless, why is he just throwing this bread away'....he usually has a bottle in one hand i might add...
again, i am not one to judge, these are just some observations....
and sure, giving to those in need may be the christian way, but if you know they are going to hurt themselves with this money, and are not genuinely going to use it for their well being, then i dont think god would judge you for not extending the charitable hand...
they are my thoughts anyway"
Seems like an interesting topic to start here.
Happy trails
Ross
Here are some examples of the posts there;
"This topic is to discuss "giving without question".
Let me start with a question. If a homless man/woman in the city asks for $2, as christians do we put our hand in our pocket and give? Or do we question where this money will end up?"
Answers to the Question include;
"I think that we should give to anyone who asks as our Lord said "Freely you have been given, freely give".
The money that we have is a gift from God, and as christians we are obliged to share and give to others. "
and
"Very interesting topic...permit me to add my two cents to the discussion...
in regard to the original question posted by Tad....
I walk through the city everyday and see many of these beggars, buskers, and homeless persons....i always tend to turn a blind eye, and if im asked for '$2 for my bus fare home', i usually interpret that as '$2 for my drug addiction'...i am not one to judge, because there are many people out there with differing situations and predicaments...but i would like to put forward a thought...one that is not my own, but i have heard this done before...if you are approached by a beggar for some spare change, why dont you kindly offer to buy him a sandwich with the money instead...i think it would be safe to say that such a thing would not be appreciated...
there is a homeless man i see everyday...every morning i see him with two big bags of stale bread, which i assume he obtained from the nearby bakery...i see him sitting on the park bench, feeding the pigeons with this bread...and every day i think to myself, 'if this guy was so hungry and homeless, why is he just throwing this bread away'....he usually has a bottle in one hand i might add...
again, i am not one to judge, these are just some observations....
and sure, giving to those in need may be the christian way, but if you know they are going to hurt themselves with this money, and are not genuinely going to use it for their well being, then i dont think god would judge you for not extending the charitable hand...
they are my thoughts anyway"
Seems like an interesting topic to start here.
Happy trails
Ross
Comments
some people u kno u have to ask
i dont kno y it just is... Get wat i am sayin?
Peace
Marina
we can take anba Abraam of Giza as an example: a homeless guy wud go 2 him to take money from him he wud give it 2 him then the same guy wud walk down the street and go to him again to take money from him then he wud do it like 5 times but Anba Abraam wud still give him money so thats sumthin 2 learn from
Yes... Great point... but anba Abraam knew the poor... and he gave them... plus a homeless person in Egypt, is a whole lot different then a homeless here... in Egypt... the barely have jobs for people... but here a person can get a job in many places...
I have just tuned into this website and discussion. What a great website huh!
I think we have all missed the point here. It is not about how we feel giving the money, I guess it is how you make the recipient feel, and how we act in front of God in secret.
How about this scenario.
A homeless man walks up to you and says, "gotta couple of dollars to spare man?" Cough Cough, splutter splutter.
Do you look at him and;
a) Ingnore him and keep walking.
b) Discuss his state of mind and question him as why he is in this postion.
c) Give with distrust and query his spending habits and his use of your hard earned cash.
d) Give without question or condition.
Maybe before you answer you should have a look at what Christ said about in the Bible. I guess as Christians we should be following his example.
There are many references. One that I remember from Sunday School was the Good Samaritan.
I am not taking away from all the Charity that the Coptic Orthodox Church does already. I guess i'm asking what do we do personally in front of God. It seems easy to do this type of thing in a group with peer group pressure and all. But when you are cornered by yourself, one on one, what do you do?
The reason I am asking is that I do not believe that when it come to the crunch that we are a very charitable people. Not only financially but even emotionally.
I do not think it is a fear of giving but a fear of difference. Some of the excuses I hear are;
1)These people are not like me.
2)Why should I give him anything, he gets the dole? or He has his own religion that should take care of him.
3)He put himself in this position, he should help himself out of it.
4) etc etc etc
I will be quiet now, I have gone on enough.
What are your thoughts
In Christ
Tad
Does one help those in need, or ignore them?
Is the giving of money the answer/help?
There is a danger to assume that the cure is financial. I live in England where everybody has a roof over their heads and something to eat. The population works to improve their lifestyle – bigger/more houses and roast beef instead of minced meat. Therefore if somebody asks for money I would be very suspicious and curious to know the reasons. Irrespective of country, situation or scenario, it is your duty to identify the facts and make a judgment based on your Christian principles. Firstly, you need to question the person as to their situation and as to why they need financial assistance. If you believe that the person is genuinely in need then by applying our Christian faith you may wish to give money. However, the answer may lie that the person just needs something else and that they believe the only way they can obtain this is through financial means. If on the other hand you feel that the person is dishonest then you may wish not to part with any assistance including financial help. In every situation you must ask God to take over and help you decide what to do.
well i actually mite disagree with sum of use
well i think that you should give without question because its not ur place to c whatever they r going to use it for. you do ur job which is giving and its up to them whether its for alcohol or drugs its not up to u as long as u did ur part. also u cant judge them buy their looks ok yar sum u mite b able to distinguish hard but others mayb not lyk i herd a story there was a poor country with poor children and people used to say o no we wont give watever bcoz of their looks and a girl died from sickness when she only needed 20 cents for the medication- thats pretty haram
also another- there was this man that always used to go to church dirty with the worst clothes lyk sumfin ud never want to c in ur lyf and hed always used to go and sit in the front row of the church and it was a joyous occasion where the high people of the country cum for example say i think 1 of the government ppl came for easter and stuff anyway the guy went and sat in the seat and a deacon sed can u plz move bac coz its reserved and he kept moving him bac until he found himself in the bak row. then the person that the seat was reserved for saw that and goes to the guy cum eat dinner with me tonight so the poor man went with him and the guys wife is lyk no im not gonna cook for him he can eet in the garage i dont care but she finally made it and as that poor man was eating his face started to change and it formed into Our Lords face so dont judge by the looks its not up to u and who noes u might be rong in the end and mayb they reelly do need ur help.
sorry it was long
GB ALL
+FROG+
GOD IS GREAT!!
We have a saying here: "put your money where you mouth is". Or put it simply, if yoy truly believe that you should give without asking then accept this message as a formal request that I am asking you for money. I require those so called 'givers' tp part each with $100 US Dollars and give this to me. I do not expect to be asked QUESTION. If you want the to know where to send this money then please post to "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX".
I expect NO TAKERS.
I edited your above post; putting your personal information out in public on the internet is just as unwise as the concept of giving money without question (if indeed that was your real address).
Peace.
i hav no idea wat u r going on about costantine we rnt talkin bout giving it t any1 but to poor ppl u kinda stepped over the line
hay guys,
well i actually mite disagree with sum of use
well i think that you should give without question because its not ur place to c whatever they r going to use it for. you do ur job which is giving and its up to them whether its for alcohol or drugs its not up to u as long as u did ur part. also u cant judge them buy their looks ok yar sum u mite b able to distinguish hard but others mayb not lyk i herd a story there was a poor country with poor children and people used to say o no we wont give watever bcoz of their looks and a girl died from sickness when she only needed 20 cents for the medication- thats pretty haram
also another- there was this man that always used to go to church dirty with the worst clothes lyk sumfin ud never want to c in ur lyf and hed always used to go and sit in the front row of the church and it was a joyous occasion where the high people of the country cum for example say i think 1 of the government ppl came for easter and stuff anyway the guy went and sat in the seat and a deacon sed can u plz move bac coz its reserved and he kept moving him bac until he found himself in the bak row. then the person that the seat was reserved for saw that and goes to the guy cum eat dinner with me tonight so the poor man went with him and the guys wife is lyk no im not gonna cook for him he can eet in the garage i dont care but she finally made it and as that poor man was eating his face started to change and it formed into Our Lords face so dont judge by the looks its not up to u and who noes u might be rong in the end and mayb they reelly do need ur help.
sorry it was long
GB ALL
+FROG+
GOD IS GREAT!!
I agree... as it says in Matt. 5:42, 'Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.'.. I mean God knows what that person is going to do with the money, and the blame is not going to be on us if they use it 4 drugs or something and we didn't know!!
but I guess u have to be careful nowadays, because the person u give money to could be pretending 2 be poor and then try 2 hurt u or something! :P this world is a dangerous place now... lol but i guess u gotta leave it all in God's hands
my friend had once givin it to a begger who had asked for money but the begger did not appreciate it and had just thrown it away.
well hope i helped,
sis in Christ, Makook
Take care and God Bless!
We did our part by trying to help them out, and if they want to use it to destroy their lives...then so be it.
But, you can also be causing them to SIN! far out, just ASK!
its just a simple question, and plus, u can see from their appearence if they would use it for drugs or so, or if they really do need to get home, its obviouse in their face.
its just a simple question, and plus, u can see from their appearence if they would use it for drugs or so, or if they really do need to get home, its obviouse in their face.
The thing is, we can't really tell by their appearence. Someone can look poor and really just be asking you for some extra money. On the other hand someone who looks as if he doesn't need money but just wants it for drugs or something like that, might actually need the money for food or something else. My thought is that we shouldn't judge if the person needs money or not by their appearence, but just give freely. Its not our job to decide if they need the money, but it is our job to give the money when it is asked of us, and if they end up spending the money on drugs, God can deal with it in His way, instead of us trying to deal with it in ours.
Biboy
If any1's been to Egypt these past couple years, you'll see how many ppl are REALLY poor. Like the people missing fingers, or feet or hands. I actually saw these ppl. I think these are the ppl that deserve the money because they really can't work, while in America there aren't tons of jobs at restaurants (Dunkin' Dounuts, McDonalds, Burger King, and those are just the major ones). I think these ppl need the money.
Like, for instance, I was in Burger King today and saw this guy standing by the door. When we went inside and got our food, I asked my mom what he was doing, and she said begging. So when we were leaving we passed by him he cursed us for not giving him money. Mind you, he had a full meal on his tray. Now, if he actually wasn't lazy, he'd have saved that dollar fifty for another sandwich. He would have also bothered to fill out an application.
Now, if I saw him there applying, I probably would have given him something.
I am sure Christ said that in these poor, sick, homeless and beaten people we will find Him. Let us all go and find Him there.
We have many examples in our beautiful Church history of Saints giving without question. Mind you they did this before they were Saints and the Lord Jesus saw how thier hearts were prepared to give above and beyond the call of duty. How can we read these stories of the Saints and then turn around and not give unconditionally.
Remember what Christ said. And I will paraphrase, "If someone asks for your cloak, give him your shirt as well. If someone asks you to walk a mile, walk with him 2 miles. If someone slaps you on your cheek, give him the other cheek to slap as well....etc etc etc. Most important of all "Love your Enemies". Imagine that! Christ has asked us to love those who we think we should hate and that hate us. This is a very heavy and hard request to acheive but it can be achieved.
These are the things that we are required to teach our kids in Sunday School from an early age. Not just by teaching it, but by example. When was the last time we took our kids out to a nursing home to visit the old people left there to die? When was the last time we or our kids got involved in some kind of charitable work? Or when was the last time we did it ourselves. About this time people come up with the excuses of, "I am too busy with work" or " I am too busy raising the kids" or "organising that function" etc etc etc. I have these excuses as well and am well versed in using and hearing them.
So then let me ask you this.... If we do not have the time to do these things and then God affords us an oppertunity of charity by letting one of these homeless people come up and ask for money, what do we do? Like I said in my last post, do we;
a)question what their intentions are with the measly $2 they are asking for?
b) interogate them on how they got in this position and then give them tips on how to get a job?
c) Tell them to spend the dole more wisely and give them financial advice?
d) Ignore them or worse still kick them out?
e) or do we give unconditionally?
Instead I hear kids in Sunday School say that people who are different to us are bad and should not be approached. You only need to talk to Copts. You do not need anyone else in this world. The simple fact of the matter is that the message is Crystal CLEAR. We must give, give, give and then after that give again. And this should be unconditional.
Oh well let us pray that Christ's Loving, Giving and kind Heart can help us be examples of Him and do the things He has clearly asked us to do.
God Bless
Tad
think of anba abraam, contemplate on his life story that might help u change ur mind
GB ALL
+FROG+
IS GREAT!!
think of anba abraam, contemplate on his life story that might help u change ur mind
yeh well, Anba Abraam, was a Bishop! He used His the diocese money WISELY, you see, there was none of this drug stuff back then, this was EGYPT not Jamaica!! yes i would give without asking in Egypt and yeh i was there last yr, imagine how it was in tha old days!? dudes, Anba Abraam was a Totaly diferent story to this 'era' NOW... all changed. you dont just imitate Anba Abraam, or so. you must think wisely and consider the Location, and the Area, and the type of people ur giving it too. for example wen i was in egy, i tried to make sure my money went to Christians more than just giving it to just anybody whos anybody when they ask for it. I still think you should firstly consider Location and minorly appearance, and then ask.
ASK!
GBU
GB ALL
+FROG+
GOD IS GREAT!!
Had anybody sent any money to him/me, I would have attempted to return this to you. If there was no means of return, then the money would have been passed on to a worthy charity.
As explained before, the rule is that you must give to those in need. The question is no if one should give or not, but how do we distinguish between those that are in need and those that are abusing our trust and faith for financial gain. As you know we should not make judgement for it is the Lord who does. However, there is nothing to stop you asking questions to identify is the needy person is truly in need or just trying to pull a fast one. If you suspect something irregular then it is your duty to confront them until you are satisfied with the situation. There are three outcomes:
1) You believe that the needy person is in need and then you must help them.
2) You are not entirely sure that the needy person is truthful. You must not judge them. You have a choice then to either give them or ask you local priest for advice. Whatever the priest says you must obey.
3) You believe that the needy person is trying to exploit the situation and financially gain without truley being in need. You must confront them and tell them that you would normally help but that you will not in this situation because (and then state your reasons). They then have an opportunity to address the issue and your concern. The chances are that they would just try some other vunerbale person.
P.S. Apologies for the delayed response and I have been trying to come to terms with the problems we have had here in London with the bombings. Can I just take this opportunity and ask people to pray for those responsible and sinner so that the good Lord you let me see the errors of their ways, and have mercy upon their soles.
Pray 4 me
God be with all