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5 piercings confusion

sunshinenermsunshinenerm
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Please answer these questions in which you can point to references Thank you.

I was noticing a painting above our iconstasis in which Jesus had 2 nails (one on each foot). Then I thought of the orban that had 5 holes. So my question is twofold
1. Did Jesus have 1 nail for each foot?
2. Do the 5 holes in the orban represent piercings? And if so what accounts for the 5?
a. 2 nails for His Hands + 1 Spear + 1 nail for both feet + 1 crown
OR
b. 2 Hands + 1 Spear + 2 Feet
OR
c. 2 Hands + 1 Spear + 1 nail (but two piercings) for his feet
Thank you for your response

Comments

  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn

    2. Do the 5 holes in the orban represent piercings?

    yea that's right

    this is all wat i know really!
  • PrincessMaryPrincessMary
    i dont know.....about the picture u saw, but most pictures/icons there is only 1 nail on both feet of Jesus on the cross, and thats what the 5 holes on the orbana are for
    -2 nails for His hands
    -1 for His feet
    -1 crown of thorns
    -1 spear
    cause i just gave that lesson to my sunday school kids about the orbana like some weeks ago, i think from a book in arabic, for kids called "mosabaketee ilseyfeya" (meaning: summer competition) 2nd grade, from St. George church, sporting, Alexandria
  • Unknown
    Dear Sunshinenerm,
    I believe PrincessMary told you the right info, this is the information, in detail, I liked what PrincessMary's information, but here it is in detail if it's ok to understand:

    The orbana has 5 holes representing the---
    5 holes in the orbana:
    -3 nails=1 on each hand, 1 on feet
    -1 spear mark
    -1 crown of thorns

    I believe this is the picture you are referring to.

    Forever,
    Coptic Servent
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    that... is very strange...
    most pictures have Christ with his legs crossed...
  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy
    think of it as how you want to think of it... but here is what I know... Jesus was nailed by three.... or four doesnt matter... but in the end he had four holes... two on the hands, two on the feet... thus one on each corner of the orbana.... reperesnting the hands and the feet... and between two of the holes... and upper and a bottom... there is another hole... for the spear... thus four for the piercing... and 1 for the spear...

    now for the crown of thorns... its used along with the hit on the face.... with the 39 whips... all together making 41... which are the 41 kerie eleysons we chant....
  • sunshinenermsunshinenerm
    I have been reading different responses from all of you. The "painting" that I am speaking of in my church is an orthodox icon .. see attached.
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    strange, very strange, but i believe that it is 3 nails, one crown, and one spear...
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    some ppl believe in strange things ::)

    like some ppl believe that the Christ was hang on a wooden stick ::) ::) ::) ::)
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    omg
  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy
    the Icon is not wrong... neither is any one wrong upon the mentioning of 4 nails... 3 nails... 4 nails... the end result is my salvation...
  • meanzmeanz
    i always prefer to look at coptic icons because they have the most accurate depictions. i mean i saw a picture of archangel miceal with a belly button (navel) lol
    since when do angels have beely buttons???
    i dunno thats wat bishop daieal told us anyways
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    hehehe

    know like ppl with dark coloured skin hv icons of st.Mary, st. Josiph and Jesus with dark skin and etc...

    every1 depict things as he/she can imagine it :)


    but yea:

    i always prefer to look at coptic icons because they have the most accurate depictions.

    pray4me

    peace

  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy
    [quote author=mnc_hnn link=board=4;threadid=2643;start=15#msg41046 date=1130262963]
    hehehe

    know like ppl with dark coloured skin hv icons of st.Mary, st. Josiph and Jesus with dark skin and etc...

    every1 depict things as he/she can imagine it :)


    but yea:

    i always prefer to look at coptic icons because they have the most accurate depictions.

    pray4me

    peace





    whats wrong with that... if I am a black man, and I see that a picture of a black jesus will get me closer to God... then why not... Jesus was not WHITE... BLACK... or ASIAN.... He is GOD... his human nature can be seen as how we would like to see him... I write Icons... am I sure it is how Jesus looked like for sure? of course not.
  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy
    no one is really 100% sure about that
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn

    whats wrong with that... if I am a black man, and I see that a picture of a black jesus will get me closer to God... then why not... Jesus was not WHITE... BLACK... or ASIAN.... He is GOD... his human nature can be seen as how we would like to see him... I write Icons... am I sure it is how Jesus looked like for sure? of course not.

    that's wat i wanted 2 say neway i wasn't like joking?

    image of Jesus from the shroud of Turin tho...

    what is shroud? turin? ::)
  • Coptic-IriniCoptic-Irini

    Jesus was not WHITE... BLACK... or ASIAN.... He is GOD... his human nature can be seen as how we would like to see him... I write Icons... am I sure it is how Jesus looked like for sure? of course not.

    But something we DO know is that our Lord was born from Mother Mary...and saint Mary was from Israel, and Israelian ppl aren't asian or black...And besides, our Icons are based on the picture which was found in our Lord's sepulchre, which was drawn by st. Luke, and he knew Him personally.
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    yea yea but as i said be4 every1 and how he can possibly imagine ::)
  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy
    what was Jesus white or black... no one knows... did he have a long beard or a small one... no one knows.... Jesus to me is what he is... if I am asian... why cant jesus be asian to me...
  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy
    actually I've seen the icon of st. luke... and its nothing like that... look icons have meanings... they have lots of things that need to be done... and about the shrout NO one is sure its the real thing...
  • spr418spr418
    no...wait but we all know that jesus had 3 nails!! :o
    omg...so do u mean that it can be wrong!
    and all that teaching for little kids about 3 nails not 4 is wrong!
    guys plz make sure its rit because that can make a really big problems with some people!!!
    GBU
  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy
    [quote author=sandrahanna link=board=4;threadid=2643;start=15#msg41166 date=1130373771]
    no...wait but we all know that jesus had 3 nails!! :o
    omg...so do u mean that it can be wrong!
    and all that teaching for little kids about 3 nails not 4 is wrong!
    guys plz make sure its rit because that can make a really big problems with some people!!!
    GBU


    what if it was 4 not three... does that mean the process of salvation is not valid... c'mon now... 3 or 4 or 34 doesnt matter really...
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn

    wait, i never heard anything about a picture from st. luke, even tho he was a doctor n artist, in the tomb...
    only the shroud of turin, wihch was wrapped around his face when he was placed in the tomb, and they took a pic of it, and its a pic that i attached...
    i think it was found in Turin hence the name...
    okay, im gunna post 3 pics to show u...
    first is the actual thing..

    hey this is amazing d u know y when they photographed the shroud it came like that? coz the pic on the shroud was a negative of a photo!!! and this is a miracle coz no1 can print his negative on a piece of cloth!!!!! :o
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    mnc_hnn, it may look like the negative of a picture, but it isn't... thats just the way it looks like...
  • estephanos111estephanos111
    A friend of pontius pilate wrote a discroption of Jesus.. its really good to read. You can find it in the book by Fr Tadros Y Malaty, "The Church House of God"
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn

    mnc_hnn, it may look like the negative of a picture, but it isn't... thats just the way it looks like...

    i read the book 'al kafan al mokadas' in egypt and it said that it's in arabic so that's wat i've read and for explaining the pic that u can see is not the negative it's the positive 1 u can't see the real 1 till u actually see the cloth it self coz when u photograph it it will be the posistive.

    i wish i explained it :)

    GBU
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    what? im more confused...lol can you clear that up a bit...
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    shroud has a negative picture

    when taking a photo:

    the photo is the positive


    while normally when we take pics we get the 'film' that has all negative photos and we need to print them out

    sorry i can't explain i'm trying forgive me
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    right, but just because the shroud's picture is black and white doesnt mean its a negative....
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    sry i'm not really sure forgive me i think i forgot
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