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is there any proofs

spr418spr418
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Is there any proofs that joseph was married before saint mary and had children am i even right about this?

GBU
sandra

Comments

  • joegjoeg
    wat???????? do u mean that joseph was married before St. Mary? well no he wasnt, and anyway he didnt marry St Mary, he was just taking care of her ;)
  • PrincessMaryPrincessMary
    Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? Matthe 13: 55

    Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?" And they were offended at Him. Mark 6: 3

    I think we believe that according to tradition, Joseph was married to a woman before St. Mary and had some children, which are called "the brothers & sisters of Jesus" as mentioned above, then later his wife died
  • gmankbadigmankbadi
    I believe that the term "brothers" used during first century Jewish culture, could aslo be in refrence to the "cousins" of a man. Perspectivally, the connotative description allotted to the term may differ. However, there a variey of persepctives that are overtly presumptuous or misconstruing of textual evidence.

    God bless.
  • Marianne87Marianne87
    Ya same here...I thought they were only His cousins. After St. Mary left for the alter, her parents gave birth to another one and I think they named her Mary as well, because before St. Mary (the mother of God) was born, her parents couldn't give birth so they promised God when St. Mary will be born, she will be given to the alter. So anyway, they gave birth to that other mary, and she gave birth to those ones and therefore they are called brothers and sisters of Christ.
  • Unknown
    [quote author=josephgabriel link=board=1;threadid=3739;start=0#msg53246 date=1146066155]
    wat???????? do u mean that joseph was married before St. Mary? well no he wasnt, and anyway he didnt marry St Mary, he was just taking care of her ;)


    The blessed Joseph was married before he was betrothed to the All holy Theotokos. He had sons and daughters from this marriage (James, Jude, etc) which are called the Lord's "brothers" in the Gospel.

    His wife passed away and it was after this, when he was about 80 years old that the High Priest chose him to be St Maria's protector.

    A very good book (it is EO - but that should't be a problem) is The Live of the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos by Holy Apostles Convent - it has all the info you could ever need, all taken from the Scriptures and the Holy Tradition of the Church.

    St Maria's early life is described in the Protoevangelion of James, which is part of the Church's Holy Tradition, but I'm not sure if the details of Joseph's marriage and children are taken from there.
  • Unknown
    http://www.holyapostlesconvent.org/HacWebStore/product_info.php?cPath=1_5&products_id=24

    Link to that book

    Should be available on Amazon and other places as well.
  • Unknown
    The "brothers" of Christ were not His cousins; this is a typical, yet false, RC apologetic.

    Read the Coptic Synaxarium entry on St Joseph; it states that he was a widower who was previously married before St. Mary and that he had children from that previous marriage. It is these previous children i.e. Christ's "step-brothers" who were called his "brothers" in the NT. This is consonant with the teachings of the Fathers of the Orient/East.

    A good article on this issue can be read at the following link:

    http://copticheritage.org/PagEd+index-page_id-815.phtml
  • joegjoeg
    k sorry guys i see my mistake. forgive my ignorance and pray for me
  • gmankbadigmankbadi
    That's very intersting to hear.
  • spr418spr418
    i think i got it..thnx 8)

    GBU
    sandra
  • kokiiekokiie
    wow didnt know that at all ? thx & God bless
  • spr418spr418
    same her..i just knew that last week..and i was like there is no way i haven't knew that for 14 years but now i know..thnx everyone for explaining!

    GBU
    sandra
  • minabdalla
    wooooow guys... chilll out... this is not true... we (Coptic Church) dont belive this.. we belive that He was a celibate... he was not married or had any kids... the catholics belive that but we dont... always check church books from our church...


    Mina
  • filobateer
    ya 3am mina... ahlan wasahlan beek :D
    eh ya 3am.... meen dolah ely yehdoh, entah shayefna benshed fee sha3renah wala eh?? ;D ;D

    w'ba3dein meen dah ely ghalat? deh Iqbal el administrator edetna el ma3loomat ely fee emanah el qibty el orthodoxy. ya3ny fe3lan abouna youssef kan armal(widower). ezay ya3ny kan celibate, zay mantah bet2ol ya ostaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaz?? :) ;D
    bos, a7san 7aga, roo7 lel site ely Iqbal provided ya akh mina, wentah ta3raf kol 7aga benafsak ya 3am. 7elwo el kalam?? ;D
    salam :)
  • minabdalla
    english plz..
  • joegjoeg
    YEAH filobateer ur kinda hard to understand and im fluent in arabic. plz write it in english
  • jjrpickensjjrpickens
    I would like to hear more about this and im goin to read up on it for its been a long time since i read the scripture and need a refresher .I will believe what the word says so pray for me .
  • Jesus85Jesus85
    Wait a minute, those so called the Lord's brothers, i.e. St. James and St. John are His cousin's from His mom's side. We all know that St. Mary's parents promised her to God and brought her to the temple when she was very young. Later, they had another girl and named her Mary as well; she is the mother of Sts. James and John. Now, about st. Joseph being married before, I've never in my life heard that and never did I hear the Coptic church use this as a response to the heircy concerning St. Mary's ever-virginity (that St. John and St. James are her sons from a marriage after the Lord's birth)
  • Unknown
    one of many mina's & Rabi-Yaso3-Bey7ebeni,

    Did either of you two read my response? I did not merely claim that Christ's brothers were his step-brothers, children from St Joseph's previous marriage to another wife which ended at the death of this very wife (i.e. he was a widower when he met St Mary), but I referred you to the evidence: (1) Coptic Synaxarium entry on St Joseph, (2) the consensus of the early Oriental Church Fathers. I even referred you to an article on a Coptic website that comprehensively discussed this issue, and that concluded upon the step-brother theory as the most Biblically consistent, and the most consistent with the Tradition of the Church.

    I do not understand the inclination for people on this website to jump to conclusions without even considering responses already given, or even ignoring those responses.
  • Jesus85Jesus85
    Dear Iqbal,
    I apologize. I'm didn't mean to jump into conclusions, and you're right, I didn't take the time to look into your response. Please pray for me.
  • Unknown
    That's quite alright; maybe your time is restricted, I understand. After reading your response again however, I see that there is something I must clarify. You state:

    that St. John and St. James are her sons from a marriage after the Lord's birth

    That is certainly not what I have argued. St Mary did not give birth to anyone subsequent to giving birth to Christ. The case is that before St Joseph met St Mary, he was married to another woman, and he had children with that woman. Subsequently, his wife died, and according to common tradition at that time, widowed men would re-marry, and so St Jospeh became acquainted with St Mary, and subsequently they were engaged.
  • Jesus85Jesus85
    with that statement, I was refering to the hiercy doubting St. Mary's ever-virginity after the birth of Christ. This is the belief of the protestant church which they use as a response for Christ having brothers. And I was just saying that I never heard the Coptic Church response to that belief by saying that those are His step brothers from St. Joseph in a previous marriage, but I've always heard the response that those were His cousins from St. Mary's side, meaning the son's of her sister, also named Mary.
  • Unknown
    I understand what the Protestant objection is, but the position that Christ's brothers were the sons of Joseph from a previous marriage is a much stronger apologetic, and more consistent with Church Tradition (since more Fathers advocated the step-brother theory), especially in light of the recent archaological discovery of an oussary with the inscription: "James brother of Jesus son of Joseph".

    According to the Coptic Synaxarium entry on St Joseph:

    "All the days of his life were one hundred and eleven years; forty years before his marriage, fifty-two years married, and nineteen years a widow."

    And according to the Fathers, James etc. were the offspring of Joseph from a previous marriage and hence Christ's step-brothers. As noted in Fr. Tadros Malaty's book "St Mary in the Orthodox Concept"

    "The writer of the apocryphal work “Protoevangelium of James”, in defending the virginity of St. Mary, referred to “the brothers of Jesus” as sons of St. Joseph from a previous marriage. Some Coptic, Syrian and Greek documents followed the same idea.

    Even some great Fathers did the same, such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Hegesippus, Eusebius of Caesarea, Hilary of Potiers, Gregory of Nyssa, Cyril of Alexandria, Ambrose, and Epiphanius of Salamis in Cyprus who advocated this idea warmly so that it was attributed to him."
  • Gods kidGods kid
    This is sort of off topic, but while we're talking about St. Joseph, I thought I might as well ask. soo... Does anyone know until how long after Jesus' birth was St. Joseph alive?

    How many years was he a widow before Jesus was born, or before he was betrothed to Saint Mary?
  • Unknown
    St Joseph had been married for 40 years to a pious woman called Salome. They had seven children:
    James
    Jude
    Simon
    Joses
    Salome (the mother of the Apostles James and John the Theologian)
    Esther
    and a third daughter whose name is unknown (suggestions include Martha, Lydia, Thamar or Assia).

    He was 80 years old when he was betrothed to the Virgin, his wife having reposed about a year earlier.

    The History of Joseph, a 4th century document describes st Joseph's last years. He became very old, but he did not labout under any bodily weakness, his sight had not failed and none of his teeth were missing. According to St Epiphanios of Cyprus (315-403) he lived to be 110 years old. He reposed just before Christ entered His public ministry - i..e when the Lord was in His late twenties.

    All this information can be found in more detail in The Life of the Virgin Mary the Theotokos by Holy Apostles Convent, which i mentioned already in another post in this thread.

    Hope this helps
  • Gods kidGods kid
    yeah it did. thanks :)
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