› ›

Have more babies!!!

jmaziounjmazioun
edited December 1969 in Youth Corner
Ok well the question i want to ask is why we arent having that many children? I think if a couple is blessed with the money and physical/emotional capabilities of having children, they should have as many as possible.

I think the Coptic church is one of only few churches that allows contraception and i think we are using it in the wrong way. If a farmer in Egypt can afford 8 children and raise them to be good Christians, then how many more can we raise with the money and strength of the church we have in the outside countries? Considering the income and stress levels of those farmers, that means if they have 8 we should have about 800! lol

I think it is very selfish to start using contraception after 1 or 2 children so that you can have more money and time to spend on yourself or the children you already have. The most important part in raising children is giving them Christ in their heart and also to offer MANY good Christian children to our society and our God, and with the capabilities of our churches (thank God) this should be an easy task because of how close our community is to the church.

I want to hear what people think
God bless

Comments

  • BespetnaBespetna
    I guess it is becouse of people whanteing to spend more time with the one or two rather then eight,
  • WMAWMA
    [quote author=doit4Jesus link=board=13;threadid=3874;start=0#msg54621 date=1147476996]
    Ok well the question i want to ask is why we arent having that many children? I think if a couple is blessed with the money and physical/emotional capabilities of having children, they should have as many as possible.
    I think it may be because in a lot of places many people can't afford to have more than one or two children, for example if they have three or four they might not be able to pay the bills, give the kids proper food etc. Isn't it better to properly raise and care for the kids you have than to have more than you can handle and have them get sick, not get fed properly, etc?
  • Jesus85Jesus85
    i think what you're saying is easier said than done. Do you know what it takes to raise one child to become a child of God and walk in His way? I mean just ask your parents. It is certainly a matter of quality not quantity. Now, you're talking about farmers in Egypt where people's morals are the same and church is open 24/7, this is the West and in my opinion, it is 100x harder to raise a God fearing child here in America than it is in Egypt, at least you won't have to worry about your 7y/o wanting a boyfriend or your 13 y/o joining some sect. I'm a girl and I would personally love to have 4 children (God willing) if my budget could take it, but I know that I would have to stay at home and focus on raising them and breeding them in the church.

    And another thing, that farmer can't remember all his kids names. And on this note, I'll end with a s3eedee joke:

    a s3eedee is sitting next to an american on a plane. the american take out his cell phone, uses it then throws it out of the window. so:
    s3eedee: 3amalt keda leeh ya abooy, kont tedehonee (why did you do that, man? you should've given it to me)
    american: o it's alright, we have alot it that

    again, the american takes out a cigar, takes a puff and throws it out the window, so:

    s3eedee: 3amalt keda leeh ya abooy, kont tedehonee (why did you do that, man? you should've given it to me)
    american: o it's alright, we have alot it that

    so again, the american takes out a laptop, uses it, then throws out the window, so
    s3eedee: 3amalt keda leeh ya abooy, kont tedehonee (why did you do that, man? you should've given it to me)
    american: o it's alright, we have alot it that

    so finally, the s3eedee is going crazy and wanting to find something to throw out the window like the american, he reachs for his son and throws his out of the window.

    american: why did you do that, man? are you nuts?!
    s3eedee: don't worry, we have alot of that!
  • kokiiekokiie
    LOL thats funny..
    ii agree with you guys..
    its better to have 2 kids and raise them both in the church, to grow and live in christ.. then having 8 children, and raising them all in the church but one of them going astray. i dont think God really counts how many children we bring up but how we bring them up. if you have more children, the less time you're going to be able to teach them individually.. did anyone watch cheaper by the dozen ? that is ah great example. cya guys
  • matt88matt88
    This is kind of a funny thread.. Im in my second year at uni and i study law and international relations. In my IR degree i do a subject called "global security" and it has really opened my eyes to environmental, political, economic and other threats the world faces. One of them is indeed overpopulation. Right now the world is sitting at 6.5 billion, and by 2050 we will be at 10 billion people. Scientists have in fact predicted that the most number of people who could comfortably live in the world is between 10-12 billion. Any more and really really really serious things will happen. Pollution, starvation, and other things. Really, if it was up to me, i would love to see a policy in every country of the world placing limits on the number of children people can have.. It does sound drastic, but the threat is very real. Therefore, in response to this thread, i personally feel that people should really have 2-3 (maximum) children. When people have 5,6,7,8, and more its just not sustainable.. As i said it is harsh, but really people need to think of future generations...

    If anyone wants im happy to post my lecture slides for that topic too.. Yarni if you need any convincing...

    Rabana Maak

    Matt
  • Jesus85Jesus85
    matt88, thanx for not including the number 4 in there ;D
    I agree with what you're saying, but don't things balance out? Like if one family has 5-6 kids, and the another can't have any children, doesnt that balance out? or does that suggestion limiting offspring take that into consideration?
  • bigmakbigmak
    hiz child ur right i ll take my self as an example im like a lost sheeep i was good kid in egypt . now im like a lost sheep in the states . and mat88 in china they have this policy its like a family may not have more then 2 offsprings


    correct me if im wrong

    mak
  • matt88matt88
    Rabi-Yaso3-Bey7ebeni, unforunately the balancing out suggestion doesnt really come into play because ultimately the world is growing exponentially.. Also, bigmak you are right about the china policy. It used to be that they could only have 1 child, but the law has been changed to allow for 2 children.. I mean it was a drastic measure, but something that had to be done there..

    Rabana Maak

    Matt
  • Luke90Luke90
    I can see what you're saying Matt88, but I really can't agree (and I know that I'm probably wrong statistically, but please just indulge me, lol.)

    From what I've read and what I've seen, people are having less babies around the world, especially Europe, and the the death rate keeps going up, again especially in Europe (from what I've read.) In fact, I think it was the NY Times that reported on how President Putin of Russia is introducing a new law that will actually pay women to have more children. If you couple that with the enormous amount of people that die each and every day from diseases such as TB, AIDS, Cholera, Typhoid, and Malaria, I think you can see where I get my point of view.

    However, this is just my personal, uninformed, provincial opinion... lol, feel free to correct me. But on a side note, I think that children are a blessing given to those whom God has chosen to become parents, which is an amazing responsibility, and we shouldn't be the ones to put a limit on God's blessings.
  • jmaziounjmazioun
    Hey Luke90
    Im from Australia, here the declining fertility rate is actually a problem. Nobody is having as many children, homosexuality is growing and i think we have something like 200,000 abortions a year. And we have already introduced a law where the government pays parents $5000 every time they have a baby because of this problem. So that info about over population is really a surprise to me.

    I dont agree that it is harder to raise Christians in foreign countries. People here work less (more time to be at church), we are not being persecuted (able to evangelise and do missionary work), and have more freedom of worship (prayer and masses and universities and school). So these countries are really what you make of them, they are not spiritual hindrances.

    So if having more children will actually help our society (In Aust. they are worried that too much of the population will be over 65 and there will be nobody to pay taxes) and we have available to us many churches priests and good Christian fellowship we should have as many kids as we can. Maybe my original 8 was too much, but 6 is alright :)
  • WMAWMA


    So if having more children will actually help our society (In Aust. they are worried that too much of the population will be over 65 and there will be nobody to pay taxes) and we have available to us many churches priests and good Christian fellowship we should have as many kids as we can. Maybe my original 8 was too much, but 6 is alright

    Coming from Australia myself, and living in a low in-come family I can say it is not feasible to have 6 children. My father struggled to raise my sister and me, and at times we were on the verge of literally being kicked out of home because of not enough money to pay for bills, pay for school etc. My situation is not unique, and there are many more people like my family in Australia, who are low-income earners, who cannot possibly afford to raise many children. A lot of people here aren't having children because it simply isn't feasible. It is one thing to be materialistic, it is another thing entirely to want to provide the basics for your child, such as food and shelter. I know that if my family ever had a third child, that we would have at some stage or another ended up on the street. This is the very same situation that at least two of my friends have gone through, so as I said, this is not an irregular occurance within Australia.

    Sure the government offers $5000 to have a child, but that money is nothing compared to how much it costs to raise the child. The electricity used, napies, fuel, school expenses, clothing all add up drastically.

    I personally would love to have lots of children when I am married, however, if my wife did not want to have the, I do not believe I would want that many children either. Also, I would not want to have more children then I could support. I would rather have 2-3 I can support and provide with everything they want, then to have 4-5 and be living dangerously close to the point of being on the street.
  • jmaziounjmazioun
    Hey WMA
    Let me say i do not really think the case where a family may go hungry one night or not have shelter is common in Australia. Our country provides free education, close to free health care, and welfare for the unemployed and studying, not to mention paying 75% of university costs and not even asking for the 25% until you are earning anough to pay it back.
    We are the 12th richest country in the world. And sydney was named no. 1 for living standards for university students. It is no hidden fact that many of our muslim brothers and sisters here are having upto eight children and are even unemployed, they have a relatively lower standard of living but still have no problems with food and shelter.

    I know many familys that claim that they are strugling to pay bills and survive but they live in 4 bedroom homes in rich areas, have two to four cars in the household with only 4 ppl living there. These are all not necessities.

    But in the case where people will struggle with the basics like food and shelter than obviously this is a valid reason for contraception, however for others (which i beleive are the majority) they are blessed with the financial and spiritual to be having a lot more children than they are having.

    God bless
  • Jesus85Jesus85
    [quote author=doit4Jesus link=board=13;threadid=3874;start=0#msg54728 date=1147612739]
    I dont agree that it is harder to raise Christians in foreign countries. People here work less (more time to be at church), we are not being persecuted (able to evangelise and do missionary work), and have more freedom of worship (prayer and masses and universities and school). So these countries are really what you make of them, they are not spiritual hindrances.



    this freedom and ease of life is what lets people think that they don't need God, or that they're doing good without God. They don't need to depend on God to defend them from persecution or ease on them hard work. I mean, why are there more atheist in those foreign countries? i strongly believe that realistically speaking, foreign countries become a spiritual hindrance if we are not careful and I notice that with the kids I serve in Sunday School, if the parents aren't paying close attention to everything their kids say and do and who they mingle with everyday, there could be very negative consequences.
  • jmaziounjmazioun
    Hey Rabi-Yaso3-Bey7ebeni,
    You are right that foreign countires' freedom may make people think they dont need God, but that is why i said these counries are what you make of them. Some people may chose to let these circumstances weaken their faith, others may use them to strengthen their faith. So i do not beleive in general these countries have a negative effect on everyones faith.

    The reason i beleive more athiests are in foreign countries has nothing to do with this. Middle eastern countries are more religous because this is geographically where all relions centred from. Judaism, Islam and Christianity all started in the middle east, it has nothing to do with it being easier to follow God in these countries, i could argue that most people in the middle east do not worship the true God.

    So i dont think a good excuse for only having 2 kids is that 'i live in a foreign country and its harder to raise Christians here'. You have a less chance here that your son will be brain washed into an islamic ideology or that your daughter will be tricked into marriage or that your kids will lose hope because of the poor conditions and persecution they are raised in. Its up to how the parents and the church how to raise the kids, not the country which they are raised in.

    God bless
  • Luke90Luke90
    Guys, all this talk is in generalizations when the truth is that the circumstances should not be the deciding factor when it comes to the choice of having kids (or how many kids to have.) Whether you have 1 or 100; in Egypt or the US, it shouldn''t be such a point of cynosure; circumstances are something to be overcome and not argued about in this situation in my opinion.

    Besides, just because you live in a certain country doesn't mean you are compelled to have a certain amount of children; it's supposed to be a personal decision between you, your spouse, the Father of Confession, and God. Also, you can't forget that kids are not just objects to be created on demand. They are blessings from God and no matter which country you're in, the number of children the Lord blesses you with is the number of children you are going to get, regardless of your then perceived circumstances. After that it is your responsibilty to bring your children up as children of God, no matter where you are (because God is everywhere; omnipresent.)

    All parents are in the same fight; that is the fight against whatever circumstances there may be that could sever them from the ultimate goal of raising their children as children of God. My point is that there is no pupose in looking to a fellow parent in that same fight and saying "You should be fighting harder, you have it easy over there." Because the next thing you know, you're the one who is going to get punched in the face (metaphorically) by some unexpected problem.
  • WMAWMA
    [quote author=doit4Jesus link=board=13;threadid=3874;start=0#msg54745 date=1147654382]
    Hey WMA
    Let me say i do not really think the case where a family may go hungry one night or not have shelter is common in Australia. Our country provides free education, close to free health care, and welfare for the unemployed and studying, not to mention paying 75% of university costs and not even asking for the 25% until you are earning anough to pay it back.
    The healthcare in this country is far from cheap. I know my mother, who currently does not live with us, could not afford to have a dental operation done to remove teeth which were causing her constant pain. Dental care only seems good if you can afford it and are on the upper end of the middle-class income scale. People below this line often struggle to make ends meet with more than 2 children. As I've said, I know at least 2 other people who have been in the same situation as me, or are currently in the same situation, and there are others I know whom I suspect have probably been through something similar.

    We are the 12th richest country in the world. And sydney was named no. 1 for living standards for university students. It is no hidden fact that many of our muslim brothers and sisters here are having upto eight children and are even unemployed, they have a relatively lower standard of living but still have no problems with food and shelter.

    So you're suggesting that poverty and people struggling to ends meet are non-existant within Australia?

    I know many familys that claim that they are strugling to pay bills and survive but they live in 4 bedroom homes in rich areas, have two to four cars in the household with only 4 ppl living there. These are all not necessities.

    My father does not own his own house and he/we are currently living with his parents, he has one car that is badly in need of repair, is constantly searching for jobs, had his phone was cut off because he couldn't pay the bill. My other friend currently has to sell his house because he can not afford it, his dad suffers from depression, and his family of four is living off his mum's salary of $15,000 per year and they are losing almost everything they had. Situations where people struggle do exist, and they are not uncommon. It's just people prefer to pretend that they don't exist and ignore them

    But in the case where people will struggle with the basics like food and shelter than obviously this is a valid reason for contraception, however for others (which i beleive are the majority) they are blessed with the financial and spiritual to be having a lot more children than they are having.

    Agree completely, except I believe that there are a large number of people in Australia who struggle to raise their family when they have very few children

    God bless

  • whywhy
    [quote author=matt88 link=board=13;threadid=3874;start=0#msg54644 date=1147529454]
    This is kind of a funny thread.. Im in my second year at uni and i study law and international relations. In my IR degree i do a subject called "global security" and it has really opened my eyes to environmental, political, economic and other threats the world faces. One of them is indeed overpopulation. Right now the world is sitting at 6.5 billion, and by 2050 we will be at 10 billion people. Scientists have in fact predicted that the most number of people who could comfortably live in the world is between 10-12 billion. Any more and really really really serious things will happen. Pollution, starvation, and other things. Really, if it was up to me, i would love to see a policy in every country of the world placing limits on the number of children people can have.. It does sound drastic, but the threat is very real. Therefore, in response to this thread, i personally feel that people should really have 2-3 (maximum) children. When people have 5,6,7,8, and more its just not sustainable.. As i said it is harsh, but really people need to think of future generations...

    If anyone wants im happy to post my lecture slides for that topic too.. Yarni if you need any convincing...

    Rabana Maak

    Matt


    i hate to break ur buble matt ;D but that is ahppening at the moment...

    i think in asia..where they are allowed to have 1 or 2 children..i think it is mean to tell the truth but it must be done!! so i dunn kno
  • matt88matt88
    lol ya habibiti 'why'. Thats the point i was getting too. Also, if you read the post i made a couple of posts afterwards i even said that in china the policy now is to only have 2 children (it used to be only 1 that they could have). Such a policy was based on realistic concerns, and thats why i was suggesting that it be adopted by the rest of the world. I mean at present 57% of the world's population lives in Asia, by having such a policy in asia alone the growth rate of the world would slow down tremendously.

    Also, Luke90, you're right. Diseases are killing millions of people every year, but the population rate far far far exceeds the number of people that die of diseases and so on.. I mean the population predictions for 2050 are inclusive of all considerations you have raised e.g. aids, homosexuals, diseases and so on. The world is really suffering from what scientists call a "population explosion".. I mean to be honest it is a big concern, and really an issue that i think more people need to know about.. I mean the people, of course, who will be effected from it the most will be our children and future generations. It would be a selfish view to just think that we should do what we wish, and let future generations take care of their own problems - then it would be too late..

    For the coptic members who are on Australia, i certainly understand where you are coming from. Life can be very hard, but the important is to never lose your trust and confidence in god. Rabana maak!!

    Matt
  • copticcross3copticcross3
    I am sorry i didn't read all the posts but my opinion is that it is quality not quantity, it is harder to raise a religous child here in America, which is strange on account of their is no persecution . Some people around the world are having children for the wrong reasons or "accidents" then they end up in orphanages, my opinion is have 1 or 2 at the most 4 ;) or maybe adopt kids, because they have already been born and u can raise them to love God instead of letting someone say raise them to worship statues. I think it deppends on how much a person can provide, giving their children an okay life, opposed to haveing many children and putting them strictly on a budget to the point where they wish they weren't born. i hate to say it but i agree with Matt, for example, all the people in the poor parts of Africa , they r having 5 + children that end up having a horrible life, nodoby told them to have more kids when they can't feed themselves.so this si where we get the overpopulation problems that, as matt said, could be a huggggggge threat to mankind.

    Umm i think i got way off topic and i didn't expect it to be this long, sorry. and one more thing, what is conceptation or whatever ? it was mentioned a lot. WMA, i know where u r coming from, i am in avery similiar situation, but i live in america. There r mannnnnnnny poor people around the world in every single country that the richer type do not notice and when they do they r shocked.
  • whywhy
    [quote author=matt88 link=board=13;threadid=3874;start=15#msg54766 date=1147690656]
    lol ya habibiti 'why'. Thats the point i was getting too. Also, if you read the post i made a couple of posts afterwards i even said that in china the policy now is to only have 2 children (it used to be only 1 that they could have). Such a policy was based on realistic concerns, and thats why i was suggesting that it be adopted by the rest of the world. I mean at present 57% of the world's population lives in Asia, by having such a policy in asia alone the growth rate of the world would slow down tremendously.

    Also, Luke90, you're right. Diseases are killing millions of people every year, but the population rate far far far exceeds the number of people that die of diseases and so on.. I mean the population predictions for 2050 are inclusive of all considerations you have raised e.g. aids, homosexuals, diseases and so on. The world is really suffering from what scientists call a "population explosion".. I mean to be honest it is a big concern, and really an issue that i think more people need to know about.. I mean the people, of course, who will be effected from it the most will be our children and future generations. It would be a selfish view to just think that we should do what we wish, and let future generations take care of their own problems - then it would be too late..

    For the coptic members who are on Australia, i certainly understand where you are coming from. Life can be very hard, but the important is to never lose your trust and confidence in god. Rabana maak!!

    Matt



    sorry matt..samehni... :-X...lol enta bethebeni :o :o :'( :-\ :) :D ;) ;D :( >:( 8)
  • PrincessMaryPrincessMary
    Why do we need to have so many children, women are not baby popping machines. Besides, who has time to get all these children, it is not like women stay home and take care of the kids anymore, many women work now, what would be the point of having like 6 kids and not having the time to raise them well, it is ridiculous. Like I see some people here they are poor, and they have 7 children, its like each 2 years they are getting one, and then they say oh well its God's will, God did not say don't use contraception, then keep getting babies, oh then can't afford to raise them, o then blame it on God. People shouldn't bring children in the world to make them suffer and live a hard life. I love children, but I think we need to be reasonable about how many we have.

    and one more thing, what is conceptation or whatever ?

    im guessing you mean "contraception"-ways to that prevent having babies when u have sex (like intra uterine contraceptive devices, rhythm method, diaphrams, condoms, etc...)
  • copticcross3copticcross3
    PrincessMary it is like u read my mind exactly what im saying, like the people in Africa that cant feed themselves and have aids n all that bad stuff then they bring more kids into the world !!!! For what ?? they end up suffering like heck! No one has the time or money.

    luv
    mary
  • matt88matt88
    [quote author=why link=board=13;threadid=3874;start=15#msg55908 date=1149488925]
    [quote author=matt88 link=board=13;threadid=3874;start=15#msg54766 date=1147690656]
    lol ya habibiti 'why'. Thats the point i was getting too. Also, if you read the post i made a couple of posts afterwards i even said that in china the policy now is to only have 2 children (it used to be only 1 that they could have). Such a policy was based on realistic concerns, and thats why i was suggesting that it be adopted by the rest of the world. I mean at present 57% of the world's population lives in Asia, by having such a policy in asia alone the growth rate of the world would slow down tremendously.

    Also, Luke90, you're right. Diseases are killing millions of people every year, but the population rate far far far exceeds the number of people that die of diseases and so on.. I mean the population predictions for 2050 are inclusive of all considerations you have raised e.g. aids, homosexuals, diseases and so on. The world is really suffering from what scientists call a "population explosion".. I mean to be honest it is a big concern, and really an issue that i think more people need to know about.. I mean the people, of course, who will be effected from it the most will be our children and future generations. It would be a selfish view to just think that we should do what we wish, and let future generations take care of their own problems - then it would be too late..

    For the coptic members who are on Australia, i certainly understand where you are coming from. Life can be very hard, but the important is to never lose your trust and confidence in god. Rabana maak!!

    Matt



    sorry matt..samehni... :-X...lol enta bethebeni :o :o :'( :-\ :) :D ;) ;D :( >:( 8)


    lol, i didnt see this till now. There is nothing to forgive :) and of course i love you ;D

    Rabana Maak

    Matt
Sign In or Register to comment.