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How do we spiritually gain from the Liturgy?

youstina04youstina04
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
1.How do we spiritually gain from the Liturgy? The time we spend in church during the Liturgy .
also
2.how to gain the most out of the readings or sermons which given of any of the liturgy day.

Comments

  • jydeaconjydeacon
    there are many spiritual things in the liturgy that we can benefit from. first is the readings and hymns. the hymns we sing like Tai shori and the Hitens they ask for the intersessions and prayers of the saints. the readings are a guide for us as well. every move in the liturgy by the priest represents something from either the new or old testament. and of course Jesus Christ himself is on the alter every liturgy. one thing we can benefit from is if we meditate on the words in the liturgy and find the meanings behind them we would gain a lot of benefits. i would give you an example but i don't have a kholagy with me at the moment. sorry if that didn't really help.

    God Bless and Pray for me
  • Unknown
    What is going on? I've been getting so many questions on how to gain from the liturgy all at once?

    Here's what i think:

    Ask your local priest to pray the Gregorian Liturgy; take a course in arabic of course because its much better in arabic [very poetic], and ask that he takes his time and not to cut corners or anything.

    Its excellent.

    If you really want to gain: go early to the mass and attend the psalms during the vespers in the morning. The pslams are excellent.

    The entire mass celebrates the life of christ, from His birth, baptism to his suffering on the cross, His death and resurrection. So, to be part of that, and finally have communion at the end is fantastic. I envy everyone that has a Coptic Church in the city they are in.

    God bless,
    Vassilios
  • KBibo8KBibo8
    Sorry Vassilios, but I have to disagree. Coptic is much more poetic than Arabic, especially since the Arabic is just a translation from the Coptic. I get very excited whenever a priest prays part of a liturgy in Coptic. I just love it. There are some parts where the difference between the Coptic and both English andArabic is very clear. For example, listen to the tune of "Amen. Amen. Amen. Ton thanaton" and compare it to "Amen Amen Amen. Bimawtika ya Rab" and "Amen Amen Amen. Your death. You will notice a distinct difference and in my humble opinion the Cotic sounds much better.

    This may be getting way off topic but I really don't enjoy much of the Tasbeha especially "Shasf en sop en mini," in any language but Coptic. In Coptic there is a certian rhyme scheme within each stanza. This is totally lost in translation.
  • Unknown
    You know what... I was saying ".. the mass is much better in Arabic [its more poetic]" as i was thinking about the difference of the mass being said in English. Not in Coptic.

    Bravo Monsieur if u can read and understand Coptic. Its great!

    I understand some Coptic, some Greek, but obviously English and French are de facto ISO standards in communication.

    I think the main thing is to participate and pray in the Mass. Of course well done if u can speak Coptic or understand it, but the majority of us perhaps would find it quite hard.

    But at the end of the day, i've never heard anything as more beautiful as the Coptic Orthodox Gregorian mass.

    I hate it when Abouna rushes in the mass ... or when the deacons go too fast so they finish on time.

    Listen, i don't know how to benefit from the Mass at all, but here's what i was taught:

    Before going to the mass, go and confess the day before.
    Voila. Whatever works for you, great.
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    Actually not only that but it is also good to think of the symbolism behind everything. e.g: When abouna puts water on the selected lamb it represents Christ's baptism. The lifafa on the prospherine is the seal on the tomb, and so on. So the symbolism is something important to remmember. Also when you sing the hymns remember, meditate and pray while you are chanting it helps a lot. You will feel a difference in the liturgy.
  • Unknown
    Youstina,

    DOn't u feel u are gaining in the mass??

    You know what? I just had a great idea. Surely your church must organise some kind of spiritual retreat somewhere?? I mean somewhere like a monastery or something? I went to a Coptic Church where they stayed in a CatholiC monastery. They booked rooms for everyone, and we did our thing. You can ask your priest if its possible to do something like that?

    Why arent you gaining in the mass?? Even when i don't feel like praying, i find the mass very compelling even, and its easy to pray just listening to what's being said? No?
  • copticcross3copticcross3
    ummmmmmm i feel like a loser ,but i would really like to change that, God can read ur mind right? so it wouldnt matter if i just spit it out, im usually bored in mass , and drift off thinking about skool n exetira. i dont understand the english ,arabic or coptic at my church so it really doesnt matter to me how they say it. I think this is mainly because i dont know any of the symbolisms (any books ? ) and i dont understand the words , im not stupid i just dont understand th ebig words ,im not gonna go to church with a dictionary . Other then the menawla, communion, which i shouldnt have on account of ive never confessed, i dont know what else i benefit .
  • Unknown
    [quote author=copticcross3 link=board=1;threadid=3942;start=0#msg55615 date=1148920442]
    ummmmmmm i feel like a loser ,but i would really like to change that, God can read ur mind right? so it wouldnt matter if i just spit it out, im usually bored in mass , and drift off thinking about skool n exetira. i dont understand the english ,arabic or coptic at my church so it really doesnt matter to me how they say it. I think this is mainly because i dont know any of the symbolisms (any books ? ) and i dont understand the words , im not stupid i just dont understand th ebig words ,im not gonna go to church with a dictionary . Other then the menawla, communion, which i shouldnt have on account of ive never confessed, i dont know what else i benefit .


    The confession thing is pretty easy to solve - go to confession! Its not difficult to arrange this with a priest.

    There is a pretty good video series - I think its on this site - called explaining the liturgy. It talks you through a lot of the symbolism and stuff. I can't remember where I got it from - Iqbal will probably be able to tell you.

    If you have problems understanding what is being said in church, you can get the text of the different liturgies from the internet:
    http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/liturgy/liturgy_of_st_cyril.pdf
    http://www.coptic.net/prayers/StBasilLiturgy.html

    And any words you don't understand you can look them up on dictionary.com

    I know it may seem boring to sit at home and read through the liturgy - but once you've done it you will find church much more rewarding - and not so boring.
  • copticcross3copticcross3
    Thank u ,i'll try to , but about confession ,not as easy as it probablyshud be, their is sayaddna , came from egypt and sometimes abouna from california tyo do mass, then he leaves. so yah . That video thing sounds very helpfull. There r videos on this website????????????????????????????? i had no idea

    well thanks and god bless
    copticcross3
  • acoptacopt
    Hello,

    I'm glad you brought this up Youstina... I was thinking about this recently, and one of the reasons I think I don't benefit is when the Liturgy becomes a "routine" from week to week. And that worries me.. Do you guys feel that it has become a routine? If so, what can we do to break away from this routine feeling?

    I liked the ideas mentioned so far in this topic. And I agree with the Coptic (Greek) Amen Amen Amen ton-thanaton.. it sounds ... how can i explain it... so spiritually comforting.

    A few things that help me are:

    * To follow in the Liturgy book; sometimes it has notes and mentions things that Abouna does, and that helps me to understand and live the Liturgy.

    * To go early. If I go late, i feel like i missed alot, and it's not as beneficial. If i go early, it's a blessing. But of course "late" is better than not going at all... at least to get some blessing.

    * To learn Coptic... at least start with some common words. So when we say important things like "Ameen tee-nahty" you can understand that we're saying "Amen, I believe". Or "Kyria-leyson" = "Lord have mercy", or "Ten-ouwsht" = "We worship". It makes a big difference when you realize what you're saying.

    * Symbolism: To read at home about the Liturgy. Just like others have already said, the Liturgy is filled with symbolism.. and if you don't understand the meaning behind these symbols you feel really lost... and bored, and i think that's what leads to the "routine" feeling. But once you understand the symbols, you can appreciate the Liturgy more, and enjoy it more too :)
    Here's a link about:
    THE SPIRITUALITY OF THE RITES OF THE HOLY LITURGY (by Bishop Mettaous)

    http://tasbeha.org/content/books/Spirituality_of_Rites_Bishop_Mettaous/

    Ask Abouna or your sunday school servant about any symbolism questions you might have.

    * Mysteries: But not only is there symbolism, there are hidden mysteries which we cannot see. For example, here's a question: At what point during the Liturgy does The Holy Spirit come down and make the Bread and Wine into Christ's Holy Body and Honoured Blood? There's a specific time when this happens.... and once you realize when this happens exactly, you'll appreciate that moment and respect it and show reverence & worship.

    (oh.. this turned out to be longer than anticipated :) )

    Please add more ideas and share experiences about how we can benefit from the Liturgy, and how we can enjoy it more, and live through it, and break away from any "routine" feelings we have about it.

    ok, thanks & i hope the Liturgy can be a blessing & source of joy to us all...
  • BespetnaBespetna
    1) You hear the words of god. Also you learn about sains.

    2) For boys[me=Bespetna]I recomend BECOMING A DECON! For wemon its good to go with your friends and sit as close as you can to the decons. You can also go to sunday school or become a sunday school teacher.[/me]
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life

    But not only is there symbolism, there are hidden mysteries which we cannot see. For example, here's a question: At what point during the Liturgy does The Holy Spirit come down and make the Bread and Wine into Christ's Holy Body and Honoured Blood? There's a specific time when this happens.... and once you realize when this happens exactly, you'll appreciate that moment and respect it and show reverence & worship.

    The Holy Spirit changes the Bread and Wine mixed with water into the Holy Body and Blood of Christ during The Prayer of the Descent of the Holy Spirit. This is after the Institution Narritive, where Abouna kind of says the "story" of the Last Supper (Take eat/drink of it all of you, for this is my body/blood of the New Covenant, which is given for you and for many...). To be exact, it is right after we say "Amen Amen Amen your death O Lord we proclaim; Your Holy Resurrection we confess. We praise you, we bless you, we thank you, O Lord, and we entreat O our God." After that the priest says the prayer of the Descent of the Holy Spirit, and the Instituition Narritive has ended. The prayer is this: "Therefore, as we also commemorate His holy Passion, His Resurrection from the dead, His Ascention into the heavens, His Sitting at your right hand, O Father, and His Second Coming from the heavens, awesome and full of glory, we offer unto You Your gifts from what is Yours, for everything, concerning everything, and in everything." After this the deacon says to worship God in fear and trembling. The people, while bowing, say: "We praise You, we bless You, we serve You, we worship You." Then the priest continues: "And this bread He makes into His Holy Body." The people respond saying we believe. The priest says "And this cup also, the precious Blood of His New Covenant." The people respond again saying again we believe, amen. The priest concludes the prayer by this, "Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, given for the remission of sins and eternal life to those who partake of him.

    At this point the bread is no longer bread but the Holy Body of Christ, and the wine with water has now become the Holy Blood of Christ.

    I believe to truly benefit from the Divine Liturgy, you must feel the words, you must feel what the priest is praying. I personally love the Gregorian Liturgy (I can't be present at one without crying). Even the Basillian Liturgy which isn't the poetic is very very spiritual. It is very important to understand feel what happens during the Liturgy. Also, if you weren't present during the reading of the Bible (if you didn't understand it than I think they fall under the same category), you are not supposed to take communion. To truly understand and comprehend that what is on the altar is the Holy Body and Blood of Christ- to whom all glory is due- I believe you must understand what is happened during every second of the Liturgy.

    There is a link explaining every second of the Liturgy, from Matins to Communion... I will provide link in my next post, I have to go find it. Sorry for such a long post.
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    Here you guys go. It is absolutely beautiful, despite it being extremely long. Enjoy ;D.


    http://coptichymns.net/module-pagesetter-viewpub-tid-1-pid-315.html
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    Any questions? You guys have to really know how important this is... The Divine Liturgy is so beautiful, its hard for me to let this pass by easily...
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