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the body and the blood of christ.

spr418spr418
edited December 1969 in Youth Corner
hi people..i got a question but i didn't really know where to put it so i just put it here..so the question is how in covenant thursday the disciples ate and drank from jesus's blood and body but he wasn't crucified yet or died for us..then what does the body and blood represent then? that question poped up in my head this morning but i never got a chance to do it but just now..

GBU
sandra

Comments

  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    On Covenant Thursday the Holy Body and Blood of Christ are the same as they are every Sunday, the Holy Body and Blood of Christ. Christ needs not to have been cruxified to give us his Body and Blood food and drink, for nothing is short of God's hand.
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    Couldn't have put it better myself well said Christforlife. nothing is short of the hand of God. for all things are possible with God.
  • whywhy
    christ for life is right..but i think there was more of an elaboration on the reason...anyone??
  • jmaziounjmazioun
    I read a really nice contemplation on this, (i think by fr Matta el meskine). He was saying that this time communion was special in that it was also a sign of Jesus' resurrection.

    Jesus was saying to His apostles 'this is My body' and 'this is My blood', while He was alive breaking them Himself, showing that while He offered His body and blood on the cross He is still alive. This shows us how closely linked the crucifixion and the resurrection are

    Hope this helped

    God bless
  • Unknown
    Well Jesus has been explaining how He was the Bread of Life long before Covenant Thursday. In John 6:56 He says, "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in him." So He explained long before He was crucified that His body and blood has always been what it represents now.
  • StavroStavro
    Before the Incarnation, the Logos did not have a body to begin with so that the believers can partake in it nor is Christ referring to an "eternal" body when he says that He is the bread of life. To speak about the Body and Blood of Christ, it refers to the incarnate Logos who took the flesh from St. Mary which is an incident in time. In addition, the effectiveness of the body and blood comes from the Cross, which is also an incident in time.

    Christ needs not to have been cruxified to give us his Body and Blood food and drink, for nothing is short of God's hand.

    No He actually needs to, because all sacraments are efficient only by the Cross and through the Cross.

    so the question is how in covenant thursday the disciples ate and drank from jesus's blood and body but he wasn't crucified yet or died for us..then what does the body and blood represent then?

    The body and blood of Christ, that takes its efficiency for the forgiveness of sins from the Cross that happened the day after. When Christ forgave the sinner woman and the paraliyzed man it did not immediately take effect, it was only realized by the Cross.
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life

    Quote:
    Christ needs not to have been cruxified to give us his Body and Blood food and drink, for nothing is short of God's hand.

    No He actually needs to, because all sacraments are efficient only by the Cross and through the Cross.

    Then how did he give his Body and Blood to the disciples on Covenant Thursday if He still wasn't cruxificied?
  • StavroStavro
    I believe the fact that the Lord was crucified on the Friday after the Thursday of the New Covenant is a historical fact that is undisputed and should not be a matter of speculation or revision.

    The glorified body of Christ is called that because it breaks the limits of time and space and is not subject to the natural laws that govern the normal body. That is why we receive it 2000 years in communion now after the Cross and why it can bebroken everywhere at the same time.

    The Communion on Thursday of the New Covenant takes it power from the Cross, quoting Anba Bishoy and H.H. The Pope who would be more safely quoted on such issues rather than soem of the confused figures mentioned above.
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    My question was rhetorical, I wasn't doubting the date of Covenant Thursday, but rather trying to prove a point. Yes, I would like a quote from any pope, bishop, or priest on this issue.
  • mtanious32mtanious32
    Ok, on Convenant Thursday, Jesus did not actually give His disciples His Body and Blood but rather bread and wine which symbolized His Blood and Body, just like what we see on the alter every Sunday, except the Holy Spirit descends upon it and then it becomes the Body and Blood of Christ, but not physically.
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    Not according to the Scriptures. Christ said, specifically, "Take eat, this is my Body, which is given for you and for many, to be given for the remission of sins. And after the supper, he took the cup, and said, take, drink, this is my Blood, which is shed for you and for the sins of many, to be given for the remission of sins."

    Clearly, he did not say this is bread and wine which after my cruxifiction will be my Holy Body and Blood.
  • Unknown
    [quote author=mtanious32 link=board=13;threadid=3981;start=0#msg56121 date=1149876550]
    then it becomes the Body and Blood of Christ, but not physically.


    This is not the teaching of the Church. The bread and wine become the actual Body and Blood of Christ, not in a spiritual or symbolic sense only.

    Of course, the Orthodox Church does not use words such as "transubstantiation" and "accidents," as the Latins do, in expaining how and to what extent this happens - this is a mystery - but we believe that what we receive in the forms of bread and wine are the real Body and Blood of Christ, which suffered for us.

    St. Ignatius of Antioch said, in the 1st century: "Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes."

    So clearly, from the earliest times, the Eucharist has always been viewed as the literal Body and Blood, the same physical Flesh which suffered and was raised from the dead.
  • basketballbasketball
    The Benefits of Holy Communion

    1) Salvation and remission of sins

    · We continually commit new sins daily and we need to wash out our sins with the blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ continuously. This is also recited during the Divine Liturgy, we mention that the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ “given for us: salvation and the remission of sins and eternal life for whoever partakes of it.” “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” I John 1:18

    2) Abiding in Christ according to His precious promise

    · “Most assuredly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in Me and I in Him.” John 6:53-58

    3) Eternal Life

    “ Whoever eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day. He who eats this Bread will live forever.” John 6: 54, 58.

    4) Growth in Spirit and spiritual perfection and life in Jesus Christ

    “For my flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed. As the living Father sent me, and I live in because of the Father, so he feeds in Me will live because of Me.” John 6: 55,57

    5) Gives healing to the soul, body and spirit as it is recited during the Divine Liturgy

    “That they (Holy Body and Precious Blood) may become to us all for participation and healing and salvation for our souls, bodies, and spirits.”

    v We need to take every opportunity in our lives to partake of the Holy Communion and we should never allow more than 40 days to pass without receiving it, Participating in this sacrament is vital for our salvation and we should never attend the Divine Liturgy and take the Blessed Body and Blood for granted or take it unworthily.

    pray for me,
    mary
  • spr418spr418
    [quote author=Christ4Life link=board=13;threadid=3981;start=0#msg55974 date=1149625994]

    Quote:
    Christ needs not to have been cruxified to give us his Body and Blood food and drink, for nothing is short of God's hand.

    No He actually needs to, because all sacraments are efficient only by the Cross and through the Cross.

    Then how did he give his Body and Blood to the disciples on Covenant Thursday if He still wasn't cruxificied?

    thats my question and sooo far..no one gave me an answer!

    GBU
    sandra
  • Unknown
    [quote author=sandrahanna link=board=13;threadid=3981;start=0#msg56304 date=1150230784]
    thats my question and sooo far..no one gave me an answer!

    GBU
    sandra


    Stavro did answer your question, he said it was possible because "it breaks the limits of time and space and is not subject to the natural laws that govern the normal body" - see his post above.
  • mtanious32mtanious32
    So Orthodox 11, when you take communion and when you look at it, does it look like real flesh and real crimson blood? Well, when I look at it it does not look like real flesh, or real blood, but we believe, as in the church, that the H.S descends upon the Body and Blood and changes it into what we know, the Body and the Blood
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    The first thing I said, sandra. On Covenant Thursday the bread and wine Christ gave to his disciples was his Holy Body and Blood. That is what the Scriptures say and prove.
  • Sara SSara S
    hi sandra,
    It may be difficult to try and understand and imagine that Jesus can give the his blood and flesh and yet he did not get curcified .But sandra there are many things we may find diffiiclut to understand if we try we'll end up not believing in God or his son .
    Accept this issue by faith .NOthing is difficult for God as Christ 4 life said.
    There are many stories that prove that the flesh and blood are real

    A lady who worked in the labratory wanted to check whether this was true or not so she took the holy communion but did not swallow it ,she placed the flesh under the microscope and saw that it is actually fresh meat.

    Another muslim lady wanted to take the holy communion but after she took it she died immediately.When the doctors checked her it happen to be a burn inside her stomache which killed her .This burn was caused by the holy communion which she was not worth taking .

    Abouna was taking the communion to give to the people at home .
    WHilst he was in the cab the driver kept looking back at the priest and smiling to what the priest was holding.Whent abouna arrived he asked the driver to wait for him ,then abouna went to the house and gave the holy communion to the people .After he came back the driver asked him where is the baby who you were holding ?
    The baby was Jesus Christ .You can ask how can Jesus Chirst turn into a baby? THere is no answer because God can do anything so, he does not need to be crucified to give his flesh and blood .
  • Unknown
    [quote author=mtanious32 link=board=13;threadid=3981;start=15#msg56306 date=1150235260]
    So Orthodox 11, when you take communion and when you look at it, does it look like real flesh and real crimson blood?


    No, it looks like bread and wine. I'm not really sure what you are suggesting by your question.


    Well, when I look at it it does not look like real flesh, or real blood, but we believe, as in the church, that the H.S descends upon the Body and Blood and changes it into what we know, the Body and the Blood

    Exactly, it looks like bread and wine, but by the grace of the Holy Spirit it mystically becomes the literal Body and Blood of the crucified Lord.
  • spr418spr418
    [quote author=Sara S link=board=13;threadid=3981;start=15#msg56318 date=1150284727]
    hi sandra,
    It may be difficult to try and understand and imagine that Jesus can give the his blood and flesh and yet he did not get curcified .But sandra there are many things we may find diffiiclut to understand if we try we'll end up not believing in God or his son .
    Accept this issue by faith .NOthing is difficult for God as Christ 4 life said.
    There are many stories that prove that the flesh and blood are real

    A lady who worked in the labratory wanted to check whether this was true or not so she took the holy communion but did not swallow it ,she placed the flesh under the microscope and saw that it is actually fresh meat.

    Another muslim lady wanted to take the holy communion but after she took it she died immediately.When the doctors checked her it happen to be a burn inside her stomache which killed her .This burn was caused by the holy communion which she was not worth taking .

    Abouna was taking the communion to give to the people at home .
    WHilst he was in the cab the driver kept looking back at the priest and smiling to what the priest was holding.Whent abouna arrived he asked the driver to wait for him ,then abouna went to the house and gave the holy communion to the people .After he came back the driver asked him where is the baby who you were holding ?
    The baby was Jesus Christ .You can ask how can Jesus Chirst turn into a baby? THere is no answer because God can do anything so, he does not need to be crucified to give his flesh and blood .



    i kinda understand that..thanks for that nice explanation!

    GBU
    sandra
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    Well, somebody brought up the fresh meat story once at a youth meeting in Church, abouna said that that isn't right...
  • shnodashnoda
    yesterday i heared bishop rafeal answering your question sandra.he said that our lord gave his body and blood on the great thursday to asure that he will be cruxificied by his own and only will, and that he himself chose to offer his body and blood for our salvation.
  • Sara SSara S
    no prob sandra
    any time
    God bless you
  • Unknown
    [quote author=Christ4Life link=board=13;threadid=3981;start=15#msg56588 date=1150840132]
    Well, somebody brought up the fresh meat story once at a youth meeting in Church, abouna said that that isn't right...


    The Body and Blood are given under the forms of bread and wine, and so even under a microscope they would seem to be bread and wine. So I would agree with that abouna
  • basketballbasketball
    [glow=red,2,300]Whoever eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day. He who eats this Bread will live forever.” John 6: 54, 58.[/glow]

    this means when we take the holy blood and body we have eternal life sandra.......
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