[quote author=amakar55 link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56701 date=1151024895] I definitely third that. Everybody thinks prom is just where you hang out for fun when it can get you to Satan. It is kind of like smoking, once you do it, it just goes downhill till you completely quit.
I'm pretty sure my sister, cousins, generally my whole family under the age of 25, and the vast majority of my friends are not Satanists because they went to prom. Also, it is in no way close to smoking (why is it that everything anybody does is always compared to smoking on these boards?). Smoking is a physcial and mental addiction (which leads to putting it as a "God" per say) and it destroys one's body (which is a temple). What's prom going to get you addicted to? Dancing (which isn't bad unless you dance in a certain style)? Your friends? Graduating? And how will prom ruin God's temple....dancing is actually great physical exercise...unless you really like the dinner, and thus become addicted to food.... :P
The thing is people are so ignorant!!!! You hear it is bad, yes maybe in some cases where some people do something stupid. But Prom itself is not bad, the afterparty were u go with your friends(your friends you picked) maybe bad or good, but prom in it of itself is not bad!!!
[quote author=mtanious32 link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56724 date=1151035189] The thing is people are so ignorant!!!! You hear it is bad, yes maybe in some cases where some people do something stupid. But Prom itself is not bad, the afterparty were u go with your friends(your friends you picked) maybe bad or good, but prom in it of itself is not bad!!!
Quote from Bespetna
I think it would be stuped not to go. I would mainly just go so I could say that I went .
I've had enough of this already. Many of your are not satisfied with stubbornly defending your desire to go to the prom. You seem insecure enough about your position that you have begun to disparage anyone who disagrees with you. How Christian is it to call people, many of whom are older and wiser than you "ignorant" and "stupid." (By the way, it'sinteresting how the person calling other's "stupid" did not even spell the word correctly.) If you want to spend hundreds of dollars to go to a party that is associated with many un-Christian ideals, then by all means do so, but do not call those who disagree with you stupid and ignorant. Are you an evil person for going to the prom? Of course not, but by going you are endorsing all of the things which are associated with this activity. It is a day that many have traditionally designated to lose their virginity. The atmosphere is one that supports pairing up and bringing dates. You need to think about your motives for going. If you are going just to say that you went, then I feel that there are much better things that you can do with your time and money.
Kbibo8, did you ever go to prom? I assume not because your stuck to the stereotype. And what you said I took very offensively, I'm not insecure with my postion and i disparage anyone who disagrees with me? The stereotype is prom is a dark evil place with many sinful things happening. That is not true, it is the afterparty where you go with your friends is what is bad and sinful not the prom in it of itself
[quote author=mtanious32 link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56734 date=1151069938] Kbibo8, did you ever go to prom? I assume not because your stuck to the stereotype. And what you said I took very offensively, I'm not insecure with my postion and i disparage anyone who disagrees with me? The stereotype is prom is a dark evil place with many sinful things happening. That is not true, it is the afterparty where you go with your friends is what is bad and sinful not the prom in it of itself
How are you offended? You are the one calling others ignorant. That is what I meant by disparaging others. If you truly felt that you were correct then you would not need to resort to ad hominum attacks. You are also not listening to what is being said. I never said that prom is a "dark evil place." I did say that the things that it is associated with are evil. Therefore, if you want to be associated with those things then go right ahead. In all likelihood being a God fearing person you will not do anything wrong while you are there. But, why would you choose to go and associate yourself with those things that people do before and after prom.
No, I did not go to my school's prom, and I have never regretted my decision. However, what does that have to do with the discussion at hand. Do I have to go to a bar or night club to know that I don't want to be there? You do not not need to have done something to know that it is wrong.
You also did not seem to respond to my argument that it is a waste of money that God has entrusted you with.
[quote author=KBibo8 link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56726 date=1151041132] [quote author=mtanious32 link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56724 date=1151035189] The thing is people are so ignorant!!!! You hear it is bad, yes maybe in some cases where some people do something stupid. But Prom itself is not bad, the afterparty were u go with your friends(your friends you picked) maybe bad or good, but prom in it of itself is not bad!!!
I've had enough of this already. Many of your are not satisfied with stubbornly defending your desire to go to the prom. You seem insecure enough about your position that you have begun to disparage anyone who disagrees with you. How Christian is it to call people, many of whom are older and wiser than you "ignorant" and "stupid." (By the way, it'sinteresting how the person calling other's "stupid" did not even spell the word correctly.) If you want to spend hundreds of dollars to go to a party that is associated with many un-Christian ideals, then by all means do so, but do not call those who disagree with you stupid and ignorant. Are you an evil person for going to the prom? Of course not, but by going you are endorsing all of the things which are associated with this activity. It is a day that many have traditionally designated to lose their virginity. The atmosphere is one that supports pairing up and bringing dates. You need to think about your motives for going. If you are going just to say that you went, then I feel that there are much better things that you can do with your time and money.
Alright I think it's time for everybody here to relax. You are all arguing over a few misunderstandings. Firstly, Bespetna didn't say "people who don't go to prom are stupid". He said that he thinks it's not the smartest thing to just flat-out not go to your prom.
Secondly, mtanious wasn't trying to offend anybody. He was just saying that a lot of people on this board don't know anything about prom, because in all honesty, a lot of them are very misinformed. It's not an insult!
Thirdly, I really really doubt that people have sex at prom, while at the actual prom. It's kind of hard when you're in a hall filled with 600 people do that kind of thing...but even if it were completely possible, most people probably wouldn't! Prom is not some weird, twisted night where people will just abandon all their morals. If I have never smoked, drank, been sexually active in any way, etc... in my life, why would I suddenly do all of that at prom? A few people in my school play kept trying to get me to do weed, and if I rejected them then, why would I suddenly accept the weed at prom? If a person goes and does something immoral at prom, then there is a spiritual problem with them, not with the dinner and dance. If someone has sex at prom, that means they have no problem with having sex, so they would have had sex with the other person anyway, whether it be at prom, at school, or in their own house.
Also, about the money issue, I worked three months at McDonalds so I could afford a retreat to St. Anthony's Monastery in California, so please don't imply that people who go to prom are frivilous with their money. Also, it costs money to do almost anything, so if we are supposed to be very safe with the "money that God entrusted us with" then that means we should never go on vacation, to the movies, any form of arcade, any tourist attraction etc...
I'm not sure if this helps, but i did go to prom - and it totally wasnt worth it...evryone makes it out to be some great night n soo much fun, n I had the whole blown out wi/ a limo n evrythen......but basically i've had more fun on normal gatherings with friends....dun wrry ur not missing much lol =/
[quote author=Saint Mahraeel link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56848 date=1151285221] I'm not sure if this helps, but i did go to prom - and it totally wasnt worth it...evryone makes it out to be some great night n soo much fun, n I had the whole blown out wi/ a limo n evrythen......but basically i've had more fun on normal gatherings with friends....dun wrry ur not missing much lol =/
LOL! That made my day! Yeah, as I've mentioned before, prom is just a few hours at a banquet hall. In my opinion (which could be completely wrong), for some people it's not a great thing, but other people I know look at is as one of the best days of their high school experience. It all depends on the person. It's not a big deal to me if you don't go. But if you don't go, don't look down at people who do go, and say things about how they are "frivilous with their money" or make them feel like their satanists or defying the church by going. Overall, prom IS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL, no matter how you look at it. If you don't go, then that's fine. If you do go, then I bet 20 bucks you won't end up pregnant, or drunk, or high etc.... Prom is one night, and it's exaggerated by both people at church as being bad, and by the media as being the biggest day of your life.
I suggest we all just stop discussing prom, because honestly, I just don't care anymore. It's really not that big of a deal....
How are you? I hope you are doing well. I would just like to share my thoughts and feelings with you and those on this site because I'm very sad at much of what is being said. I feel that you are really trying to make points, yet you are not looking at the whole situation. You are also making very generalized statements and I'd like to share my feelings regarding what you have said. You seem to be the strongest advocate so I want to direct my thoughts towards what you said.
I do not want you to get upset at some of the things I am going to say, but I fear that by what you’re saying, some may have a real misunderstanding. I respect you a lot and I want you take what I say with an open heart to understand what I mean. I'm going to try to say it as clear as possible. This is just my 2nd post on this site and I never want to offend anyone, I just want you to see what I'm saying about some of the points you made. Please forgive me if I sound upset at anytime, I just need to share my feelings.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56331 date=1150317033] Also, I have known most of my friends since about 5th grade, and NONE of them dance the way that most teenagers dance, and we all just like being silly. Also, none of us plan on bringing any form of "date" to the prom (even though their parents fully allow them to date, they don't want to). So for me, prom is not anything "filled with defilement and temptation", it's just a fancier version of our eighth grade graduation party.
Of course, this is just my opinion, and I could be completely wrong. I've realized from talking with others that there is nothing wrong with not going to your prom. If don't feel comfortable in prom-like situations, or if you just don't enjoy dancing, or if you think you'll be tempted, don't go. It is probably over-rated as an event to begin with (once you move onto university/college, prom and high school probably feel like nothing), however, it still isn't something I personally would like to miss. My school's graduation ceremony is in October of the year after you graduate, because a lot of kids take summer school to boost up their marks and be eligible for their diploma. B/c of it being in October, most kids dont show up to grad, so prom would be the final oppertunity i'd have to see the people who I met and who have inspired me over my high school years.
The first thing I'd like to make clear is that I'm a person who was born and raised in America and I understand what is going on, so I speak from experience with those around me. Your first point here is that you and your friends will not bring any dates with you to the prom. Maybe what you do not realize is that is EXACTLY what most men look forward to, women with NO dates. Why you may ask? Because they are free to do as they please with you because you have NO man who is going to stand in the way!!
Maybe you don't realize how much outside planning goes into prom! The classmates I grew up with in school spent MONTHS planning and THOUSANDS of dollars. They would rent an entire house for a whole week at the shore to go to after prom. Their hope and desire is to have a different woman each and every night. They don't want to go with a date, they’d prefer not to! They don't want to be tied down with one woman, they'd like to be with as many as possible! Women going alone are the PERFECT target for those men. You seem not to see this side of prom. Prom itself is the perfect opportunity to meet women and this is the goal of every man. Prom is the day women and men LOSE their virginity! It is your opportunity to get ready for college by having your first encounter with a man or women the end of senior year as EVERYONE in America knows and as it is portrayed in American TV shows and MOVIES too!
This is REALITY! I grew up with it! All 4 years in high school I saw the same thing with every graduating class. Throughout my college career, many of my classmates went back to prom just to be with a young woman and trick her to take her virginity away! Women expect this as the day to lose it! They feel as though you must be ready for men in college because they don't want inexperienced women! And this is the REAL way people think! Please don't deny it, I grew up for all my life in America and I've been all around America, men are the same everywhere! Girls know when prom comes around, their boyfriends are expecting them to give up their virginity if they haven't already done so. Prom is not for the bad girls as you think, it’s for good girls to become bad!
Another thing about your above post, how could you say "If you THINK you'll be tempted"!? Do you not realize that satan is waiting for an opportunity like this to tempt you in? In a place where most of the people have prepared for themselves drugs and alcohol and all kinds of evil just outside the prom door and are just hoping to meet as many women as possible and invite them to their house down at the shore! When you say this, the devil will be SURE to do his best and tempt you and believe me, if you put your self in the face of temptation and say you won't fall, you will be sure to be fall.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56369 date=1150407860] Also, on behalf of the people who organize prom, I'm offended by the notion that it is like a club. It is about a million times classier than any club because what most people forget is that prom is also a dinner in which people dress up well, and they are very formal. Clubs are trashy, drunken, filthy bars filled with people who are half naked (not that I've been to a club, just to clarify, but I've heard this from others).
Regarding your above post, why are you even offended?? The people who make prom don't care about the people going to prom! They don't try to stop the wrong that surrounds prom! They don't discourage people from going to the shore! Most schools have already gotten used to the seniors missing a week after prom and they allow it as an excused absence because they understand everyone is busy losing their virginity and drinking alcohol and doing drugs. Go to the shore of most states during the summer months, especially prom time, and you'll find nothing but drunk and high teenagers who have rented houses all up and down the shore!
And you are offended by the notion that it is like club? It is EXACTLY like the trashy clubs! Do you not realize that most clubs in America have a VERY strict dress code and you can't enter if your simply wearing sneakers or boots! You must be very, VERY well dressed for almost all of the REAL nightclubs in America. When I'm in college, I see people leaving the dorms dressed better than they would to go to a wedding! They are going with their best clothes and nicest car in order to walk out with the most women and many more numbers!
It seems you have not done your research before speaking and that is very upsetting because you claim to want to clarify the situation and I'm sorry to say you need it to be clarified for you. Go to New York City any night of the week and walk around and find me one person not dressed well for a club! SATAN MAKES ALL SIN APPEALING TO US! HE DOES NOT SHOW IT AS DIRTY AND NASTY OR ELSE NO ONE WOULD COMMIT SIN! THIS IS ONE OF THE GREATEST TRICKS OF THE DEVIL. HE DISGUISES SIN AND WE ALL FALL FOR IT!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56369 date=1150407860] Also, you can't just avoid social situations just because you are scared that there is a 0.0000000000000000000001% chance you will "fall into temptation". I know that there are people who go to my church youth group who smoke marijuana, but should I avoid church youth group because there is a small chance they might offer it to me? Should I avoid going to a sports game because they sell beer there? Should you not go to a shopping mall because you might be tempted to steal? It's the same thing with prom. I'm not going to avoid my prom because some girl or guy who I've never met (my school has 2200 students) might dance in a dirty fashion. I'm going to go dress up nicely, eat my dinner with my friends, and do a lame version of the waltz...whether the music in the background is Mozart or not is not my problem. I don't even know how to dance dirtily even if I wanted to (which I don't)
Who said to avoid social situations??? I don't understand! Prom is an event that is really not all about having a wonderful night with your friends! 95% of the people you'll be surrounded with are planning an AFTER party!! They don't care about the 2-3 hour prom! It's just another school event everyone is used to attending but ultimately, they're dying for the after party! Are you surrounded by good people who just want to have a genuine clean time? NO! They are their to dance and many people I knew in high school went to the prom drunk or high already so they'd have a nicer time! Dancing nowadays is FILTHY! You rub yourself up against someone you may not even know! Yet when you're at prom OR a club, NO ONE CARES. You dance with whoever is closest to you! And while you are daincing, what do you think is going on in their head? THAT IS SOMETHING I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT! I'm sure some of the worse sinful thoughts are in their mind! And how do you think those people will look at you? WITH A CLEAN EYE? NO CERTAINLY NOT! WITH A DIRTY EYE AND YOU'LL BE LOOKED IN WAYS I KNOW NO ONE WOULD EVER WANT TO! Why would you want anyone looking at you that way? WHY give someone an opportunity to treat you dirt in their mind??
How could you EVER point out the sins of others and use that as some sort of sad excuse! CHURCH IS NOT SOCIAL SITUATION! No one said to avoid all social situations anyway and if they did, they are wrong! We are discussing a bad environment people are going to such as PROM or a club. People going to Church are entering a HOLY environment where SINNERS come to REPENT!EVERYONE going to Church is a sinner and NO ONE is better than another! The simple fact that they are in Church is because they want to learn about God and He will touch their heart and change them! Everyone sitting to your right and left in Church is a sinner! They are not going there to commit sin but to REPENT of their sins! They are going there to hear a Spiritual word that will touch their heart and bring them back to God and make them overcome their weaknesses.People going to prom are simply GROWING WEAKER by giving in to their flesh desires! DON'T EVER COMPARE CHURCH WITH ANY PLACE PLEASE! Don't EVER mention your brothers and sisters sins because lying is just like doing drugs and those people need your help and support to overcome their addiction!
Church is a place we go to seek comfort and guide each other and help each other overcome our weaknesses! You are in Church to pray for those standing next to you on your right and your left and to pray for those outside who have no one to pray for them.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304] Secondly, mtanious wasn't trying to offend anybody. He was just saying that a lot of people on this board don't know anything about prom, because in all honesty, a lot of them are very misinformed. It's not an insult!
I'm very sorry and sad to say that you are both very misinformed. Please consider me as your older brother sharing my feelings with you from what I KNOW to be true. I am not many years older than you and I just went through all of this and I'm not a person who blinds himself to everything around us. I study and I learn every side of every situation. I would like you guys to examine what I have put forth here and to respond to me and tell me how you think, please.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304] Prom is not some weird, twisted night where people will just abandon all their morals. If I have never smoked, drank, been sexually active in any way, etc... in my life, why would I suddenly do all of that at prom?
I'm sorry to say, this night is definitely a very terrible night for many people. Although most think its a great night to get drunk and do drugs! I knew SO many women and men who regretted that day for the rest of their lives because of what occurred on that night, IMMEDIATELY following prom. Prom is just the start to a night filled with sin. Please open your eyes and understand that. ALMOST all of America is the same! Maybe some remote part where the school has 10 people graduating then prom is not like this. But for every other part of America, prom is a night to dance and then to continue the night at a party and fulfill what America expects to occur! AND IT DOES HAPPEN, I ASSURE YOU IT DOES!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304] Also, about the money issue, I worked three months at McDonalds so I could afford a retreat to St. Anthony's Monastery in California, so please don't imply that people who go to prom are frivilous with their money. Also, it costs money to do almost anything, so if we are supposed to be very safe with the "money that God entrusted us with" then that means we should never go on vacation, to the movies, any form of arcade, any tourist attraction etc...
About the money issue, I have seen people spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS on prom, especially women! When is the last time we spent a THOUSAND dollars to buy our own mother and father a gift? When is the last time we bought our siblings a gift for that much? Surely they are worth more to us than a one night 2 or 3 hour event! There is so much more that can be said, but I've said a lot and I'll save it for another day.
Katherine, you seem to really be missing the point here, we're discussing PROM, not a vacation, or a movie, or an arcade, or tourist attraction and what relation do they have? Almost ALL the people surrounding you in PROM have bad intentions and PROM is known as a night people plan to have bad relations together and they rent a place to do these activities too! People going to a vacation want to relax with their family and friends and have a NICE time, they aren't going with mom and dad to do drugs. You go to a tourist attraction to enjoy the beauty of whatever is there to be seen. You are not going there to do drugs or to have bad relations with women. Please stop relation UNrelated things together. The whole point is that prom is VERY well known for a lot of NEGATIVE activity.
PLEASE forgive me if anyone feels I have spoken too strongly about this subject but this is how I feel and I speak from my experiences and from what I have seen all around me all the years of my life. Please respond to any point I have made and please comment or ask questions, or correct anything I've said. I'd like to have a good discussion about the points I've put forth here.Please forgive me and pray for me.
[quote author=Seeker Of Truth link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56867 date=1151335469] Dear Katherine,
How are you? I hope you are doing well. I would just like to share my thoughts and feelings with you and those on this site because I'm very sad at much of what is being said. I feel that you are really trying to make points, yet you are not looking at the whole situation. You are also making very generalized statements and I'd like to share my feelings regarding what you have said. You seem to be the strongest advocate so I want to direct my thoughts towards what you said.
I do not want you to get upset at some of the things I am going to say, but I fear that by what you’re saying, some may have a real misunderstanding. I respect you a lot and I want you take what I say with an open heart to understand what I mean. I'm going to try to say it as clear as possible. This is just my 2nd post on this site and I never want to offend anyone, I just want you to see what I'm saying about some of the points you made. Please forgive me if I sound upset at anytime, I just need to share my feelings.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56331 date=1150317033] Also, I have known most of my friends since about 5th grade, and NONE of them dance the way that most teenagers dance, and we all just like being silly. Also, none of us plan on bringing any form of "date" to the prom (even though their parents fully allow them to date, they don't want to). So for me, prom is not anything "filled with defilement and temptation", it's just a fancier version of our eighth grade graduation party.
Of course, this is just my opinion, and I could be completely wrong. I've realized from talking with others that there is nothing wrong with not going to your prom. If don't feel comfortable in prom-like situations, or if you just don't enjoy dancing, or if you think you'll be tempted, don't go. It is probably over-rated as an event to begin with (once you move onto university/college, prom and high school probably feel like nothing), however, it still isn't something I personally would like to miss. My school's graduation ceremony is in October of the year after you graduate, because a lot of kids take summer school to boost up their marks and be eligible for their diploma. B/c of it being in October, most kids dont show up to grad, so prom would be the final oppertunity i'd have to see the people who I met and who have inspired me over my high school years.
The first thing I'd like to make clear is that I'm a person who was born and raised in America and I understand what is going on, so I speak from experience with those around me. Your first point here is that you and your friends will not bring any dates with you to the prom. Maybe what you do not realize is that is EXACTLY what most men look forward to, women with NO dates. Why you may ask? Because they are free to do as they please with you because you have NO man who is going to stand in the way!!
Maybe you don't realize how much outside planning goes into prom! The classmates I grew up with in school spent MONTHS planning and THOUSANDS of dollars. They would rent an entire house for a whole week at the shore to go to after prom. Their hope and desire is to have a different woman each and every night. They don't want to go with a date, they’d prefer not to! They don't want to be tied down with one woman, they'd like to be with as many as possible! Women going alone are the PERFECT target for those men. You seem not to see this side of prom. Prom itself is the perfect opportunity to meet women and this is the goal of every man. Prom is the day women and men LOSE their virginity! It is your opportunity to get ready for college by having your first encounter with a man or women the end of senior year as EVERYONE in America knows and as it is portrayed in American TV shows and MOVIES too!
This is REALITY! I grew up with it! All 4 years in high school I saw the same thing with every graduating class. Throughout my college career, many of my classmates went back to prom just to be with a young woman and trick her to take her virginity away! Women expect this as the day to lose it! They feel as though you must be ready for men in college because they don't want inexperienced women! And this is the REAL way people think! Please don't deny it, I grew up for all my life in America and I've been all around America, men are the same everywhere! Girls know when prom comes around, their boyfriends are expecting them to give up their virginity if they haven't already done so. Prom is not for the bad girls as you think, it’s for good girls to become bad!
Another thing about your above post, how could you say "If you THINK you'll be tempted"!? Do you not realize that satan is waiting for an opportunity like this to tempt you in? In a place where most of the people have prepared for themselves drugs and alcohol and all kinds of evil just outside the prom door and are just hoping to meet as many women as possible and invite them to their house down at the shore! When you say this, the devil will be SURE to do his best and tempt you and believe me, if you put your self in the face of temptation and say you won't fall, you will be sure to be fall.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56369 date=1150407860] Also, on behalf of the people who organize prom, I'm offended by the notion that it is like a club. It is about a million times classier than any club because what most people forget is that prom is also a dinner in which people dress up well, and they are very formal. Clubs are trashy, drunken, filthy bars filled with people who are half naked (not that I've been to a club, just to clarify, but I've heard this from others).
Regarding your above post, why are you even offended?? The people who make prom don't care about the people going to prom! They don't try to stop the wrong that surrounds prom! They don't discourage people from going to the shore! Most schools have already gotten used to the seniors missing a week after prom and they allow it as an excused absence because they understand everyone is busy losing their virginity and drinking alcohol and doing drugs. Go to the shore of most states during the summer months, especially prom time, and you'll find nothing but drunk and high teenagers who have rented houses all up and down the shore!
And you are offended by the notion that it is like club? It is EXACTLY like the trashy clubs! Do you not realize that most clubs in America have a VERY strict dress code and you can't enter if your simply wearing sneakers or boots! You must be very, VERY well dressed for almost all of the REAL nightclubs in America. When I'm in college, I see people leaving the dorms dressed better than they would to go to a wedding! They are going with their best clothes and nicest car in order to walk out with the most women and many more numbers!
It seems you have not done your research before speaking and that is very upsetting because you claim to want to clarify the situation and I'm sorry to say you need it to be clarified for you. Go to New York City any night of the week and walk around and find me one person not dressed well for a club! SATAN MAKES ALL SIN APPEALING TO US! HE DOES NOT SHOW IT AS DIRTY AND NASTY OR ELSE NO ONE WOULD COMMIT SIN! THIS IS ONE OF THE GREATEST TRICKS OF THE DEVIL. HE DISGUISES SIN AND WE ALL FALL FOR IT!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56369 date=1150407860] Also, you can't just avoid social situations just because you are scared that there is a 0.0000000000000000000001% chance you will "fall into temptation". I know that there are people who go to my church youth group who smoke marijuana, but should I avoid church youth group because there is a small chance they might offer it to me? Should I avoid going to a sports game because they sell beer there? Should you not go to a shopping mall because you might be tempted to steal? It's the same thing with prom. I'm not going to avoid my prom because some girl or guy who I've never met (my school has 2200 students) might dance in a dirty fashion. I'm going to go dress up nicely, eat my dinner with my friends, and do a lame version of the waltz...whether the music in the background is Mozart or not is not my problem. I don't even know how to dance dirtily even if I wanted to (which I don't)
Who said to avoid social situations??? I don't understand! Prom is an event that is really not all about having a wonderful night with your friends! 95% of the people you'll be surrounded with are planning an AFTER party!! They don't care about the 2-3 hour prom! It's just another school event everyone is used to attending but ultimately, they're dying for the after party! Are you surrounded by good people who just want to have a genuine clean time? NO! They are their to dance and many people I knew in high school went to the prom drunk or high already so they'd have a nicer time! Dancing nowadays is FILTHY! You rub yourself up against someone you may not even know! Yet when you're at prom OR a club, NO ONE CARES. You dance with whoever is closest to you! And while you are daincing, what do you think is going on in their head? THAT IS SOMETHING I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT! I'm sure some of the worse sinful thoughts are in their mind! And how do you think those people will look at you? WITH A CLEAN EYE? NO CERTAINLY NOT! WITH A DIRTY EYE AND YOU'LL BE LOOKED IN WAYS I KNOW NO ONE WOULD EVER WANT TO! Why would you want anyone looking at you that way? WHY give someone an opportunity to treat you dirt in their mind??
How could you EVER point out the sins of others and use that as some sort of sad excuse! CHURCH IS NOT SOCIAL SITUATION! No one said to avoid all social situations anyway and if they did, they are wrong! We are discussing a bad environment people are going to such as PROM or a club. People going to Church are entering a HOLY environment where SINNERS come to REPENT!EVERYONE going to Church is a sinner and NO ONE is better than another! The simple fact that they are in Church is because they want to learn about God and He will touch their heart and change them! Everyone sitting to your right and left in Church is a sinner! They are not going there to commit sin but to REPENT of their sins! They are going there to hear a Spiritual word that will touch their heart and bring them back to God and make them overcome their weaknesses.People going to prom are simply GROWING WEAKER by giving in to their flesh desires! DON'T EVER COMPARE CHURCH WITH ANY PLACE PLEASE! Don't EVER mention your brothers and sisters sins because lying is just like doing drugs and those people need your help and support to overcome their addiction!
Church is a place we go to seek comfort and guide each other and help each other overcome our weaknesses! You are in Church to pray for those standing next to you on your right and your left and to pray for those outside who have no one to pray for them.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304] Secondly, mtanious wasn't trying to offend anybody. He was just saying that a lot of people on this board don't know anything about prom, because in all honesty, a lot of them are very misinformed. It's not an insult!
I'm very sorry and sad to say that you are both very misinformed. Please consider me as your older brother sharing my feelings with you from what I KNOW to be true. I am not many years older than you and I just went through all of this and I'm not a person who blinds himself to everything around us. I study and I learn every side of every situation. I would like you guys to examine what I have put forth here and to respond to me and tell me how you think, please.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304] Prom is not some weird, twisted night where people will just abandon all their morals. If I have never smoked, drank, been sexually active in any way, etc... in my life, why would I suddenly do all of that at prom?
I'm sorry to say, this night is definitely a very terrible night for many people. Although most think its a great night to get drunk and do drugs! I knew SO many women and men who regretted that day for the rest of their lives because of what occurred on that night, IMMEDIATELY following prom. Prom is just the start to a night filled with sin. Please open your eyes and understand that. ALMOST all of America is the same! Maybe some remote part where the school has 10 people graduating then prom is not like this. But for every other part of America, prom is a night to dance and then to continue the night at a party and fulfill what America expects to occur! AND IT DOES HAPPEN, I ASSURE YOU IT DOES!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304] Also, about the money issue, I worked three months at McDonalds so I could afford a retreat to St. Anthony's Monastery in California, so please don't imply that people who go to prom are frivilous with their money. Also, it costs money to do almost anything, so if we are supposed to be very safe with the "money that God entrusted us with" then that means we should never go on vacation, to the movies, any form of arcade, any tourist attraction etc...
About the money issue, I have seen people spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS on prom, especially women! When is the last time we spent a THOUSAND dollars to buy our own mother and father a gift? When is the last time we bought our siblings a gift for that much? Surely they are worth more to us than a one night 2 or 3 hour event! There is so much more that can be said, but I've said a lot and I'll save it for another day.
Katherine, you seem to really be missing the point here, we're discussing PROM, not a vacation, or a movie, or an arcade, or tourist attraction and what relation do they have? Almost ALL the people surrounding you in PROM have bad intentions and PROM is known as a night people plan to have bad relations together and they rent a place to do these activities too! People going to a vacation want to relax with their family and friends and have a NICE time, they aren't going with mom and dad to do drugs. You go to a tourist attraction to enjoy the beauty of whatever is there to be seen. You are not going there to do drugs or to have bad relations with women. Please stop relation UNrelated things together. The whole point is that prom is VERY well known for a lot of NEGATIVE activity.
PLEASE forgive me if anyone feels I have spoken too strongly about this subject but this is how I feel and I speak from my experiences and from what I have seen all around me all the years of my life. Please respond to any point I have made and please comment or ask questions, or correct anything I've said. I'd like to have a good discussion about the points I've put forth here.Please forgive me and pray for me.
Look, i just want to say that prom is not a big deal, i didnt go to my high school prom, it wasn't like the end of the world...!, so what if u dont go.... I cannot say if prom is bad or good, because i never went, and anything i say would only be based on what i've heard about it, although i have read all of SeekerOfTruth's post, which makes great points (but i honestly dont think that all proms in all schools are the same) in my school i was the only coptic person not to go, and about 11 copts did go...half of them went as a group of girls, i am quite sure they did not lose their virgnity because they went to prom, i know that they did not dance with no boys, but in fact were just having dinner, and the girls danced together, and no one got drunk..and no one went to anywhere afterwards.....and i know i wasn't there....but i dont see why 11 people would lie about what went on during prom...., and i dont believe that any of them are bad people because they went, its a personal choice lastly, would just like to say "all things are lawful unto me but not all things are expedient" 1 Cor 6:12
Dear PrincessMary, How are you? I hope you are doing great. I just want to respond to some points you made. Let me begin by using the words of the Holy Bible.
From the First Epistle of Saint Paul to the Corinthians 15:33 "Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits."
I think the words of the Holy Spirit are very clear. Do NOT be deceived!! We THINK we will not be affected by anyone even if we're in a room full of people who are doing evil things. You must understand that we cannot lie to ourselves just because we THINK its not going to hurt us. And yes, it is evil to dance while rubbing yourself up against someone and this is NORMAL dancing in today's world, even slow dancing is rubbing up all over a person! IS THIS APPROPRIATE for God's children to do? Allow someone to have bad thoughts of them as they are all over them?
Are people at these events fully clothed? Or do they wear revealing attire? Will this not cause us to look and sin?? PLEASE don't tell me that people dress like this everywhere because this place is DESIGNED for people to dress that way and you are surrounded by HUNDREDS and you are in a closed off room and you can't leave because the school is responsible for you!! If you were in a mall and saw a half naked man or woman you can turn away immediately and LEAVE!
[quote author=PrincessMary link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56876 date=1151347446] Look, i just want to say that prom is not a big deal, i didnt go to my high school prom, it wasn't like the end of the world...!, so what if u dont go.... I cannot say if prom is bad or good, because i never went, and anything i say would only be based on what i've heard about it, although i have read all of SeekerOfTruth's post, which makes great points (but i honestly dont think that all proms in all schools are the same) in my school i was the only coptic person not to go, and about 11 copts did go...half of them went as a group of girls, i am quite sure they did not lose their virgnity because they went to prom, i know that they did not dance with no boys, but in fact were just having dinner, and the girls danced together, and no one got drunk..and no one went to anywhere afterwards.....and i know i wasn't there....but i dont see why 11 people would lie about what went on during prom...., and i dont believe that any of them are bad people because they went, its a personal choice lastly, would just like to say "all things are lawful unto me but not all things are expedient" 1 Cor 6:12
I understand you are quite sure they didn't lose their virginity and I'm glad that is true. But don't you realize how great the temptation is around you? EVERYONE in that room has bad thoughts on their mind, I assure you, EVERYONE! When you KNOW everyone around you is going to have bad relations and you are the only one, you may begin to feel left out. Even if this doesn't have an affect on you that day! YOU WILL constantly think about it and it will bother you. Just because they didn't drink that day doesn't mean they won't after everyone tells them how much of an amazing time they had that night! That night can be the thing that causes them to be curious to want to try it! After prom and towards the end of school there will be HUNDREDS of parties every other day at peoples houses and it will contain all the same activities as prom, bad relations, drinking, and drugs and you will be invited!
Do you know what CONDONING someone's actions means? It means "to overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure." While you are at these places you are surrounded by people who are doing evil activities! Everything they are doing is not Godly! Godly acts bear fruit and bring you and others around you closer to God! How can having someone all over them be good!?! When you are not doing anything to prevent bad things going on around you, you are simply condoning the action and saying its okay and it doesnt affect you. But as we see from the words of the Holy Bible, by condoning someones actions, they WILL affect us! When we tell people we don't mind what they are doing around us, it means that your beliefs don't teach you a right or wrong and whatever you feel is okay you do. THIS IS NOT TRUE. We know what is right and we know what is wrong. LIGHT CANNOT EXIST WHERE THERE IS DARKNESS AND DARKNESS CANNOT EXIST WHERE THERE IS LIGHT. If we were truly a light to the world, how can we stand amongst darkness and not light up the room? We are simply HIDING our lamp under a basket and pretending we're not a light! THIS IS NOT RIGHT.
Once again I'll turn to the words of the Holy Bible.
From the Epistle of Saint James 4:17 "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."
Please keep me in your prayers and I hope you understand what I said. If I have said anything wrong, please correct me.
I'm really sorry to hear about your math teacher. May God be with his family, friends, and students and comfort them.
First, I'd like to apologize for leaving room for you to misunderstand what I said. I really hope and pray you are not upset with me. I didn't mean for you to get upset. When I said "YOU" during my posting it was not targetted at you. You is also said when discussing a group of people, at least in the American way of using the word.
When I said you were the strongest advocate, I simply meant on this forum, you wrote the most and there were many things you said that did not give a true picture of prom here in America. If someone were to read your posts then go to prom here, they may leave very shocked because it is NOT the place they expected.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368] I have been trying to end this discussion for a very long time. I'm just going to make a final post on this issue....after that I'm leaving, because frankly, I'm tired of being looked down upon here like I'm some form of radical infidel, and I feel like everybody is repeating the same arguements of
I really, REALLY hope you do not leave this site because of my words. They were not meant to upset you and I was simply trying to make clear my point. Please do not leave this site for this reason. I do not think this way of you. You are from Canada and you are speaking about the issue from how you know it, but I think there are so many people from America reading your posts and then misunderstanding it. I don't see anything wrong with anything else you have ever said on this side and I admire you for many things you have said. Please do not let this upset you. Please!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368] Well, I live up in good old Canada, and unfortunately, what most people don't realize, is that those are two VERY different nations,
I realize America and Canada are very different. I've been to Canada many times and I have a cousin who from Mississauga who probably attends the same Church you do. It's a huge beautiful Chruch and it also has a school in it.
The fact that we are from different countries means things don't run the same way there as they do here. You must realize that what is bothering me is I feel prom is really being misrepresented on this post. Prom has become a terrible event here. 10 or 15 years ago, no one in Church even knew or cared about it.
The only reason it is talked about so much now is because parents heard how terrible it was and they did the right thing and turned to the Church to find out about it and to know if they should allow their children to go. Many Priests say not to go because they know the town the children live in and it is terrible. There may be Priests who never heard a bad word about prom and therefore leave the judgement up to the parents, or they may have been told it is a nice dinner and so they say go.
We must realize that the reason why we have Priests and people giving different opinions is ONLY because every area is different, not because they mean to contradict each other!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368] Maybe what you do not realize is that is EXACTLY what most men look forward to, women with NO dates. Why you may ask? Because they are free to do as they please with you because you have NO man who is going to stand in the way!!
They are free to do as they please with me? What kind of girl do you take me for? Do you think I'm just going to let some guy come up to me and "have his way" with me!
I'd like to just explain what I meant. I never meant YOU personally, I was just saying you as in you women. It is true that this happens because I know for a fact it has happened, here in America. I know our women wouldn't let this happen to them, but men DON'T care who you are, they will try. I would NEVER want a man even ATTEMPTING to approach my sister in that way! That's why I'd never allow her to be in that situation in the first place. Disrespectful men have NO limits whatsoever!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368] Well, I'm definately not what people would call an average woman. I don't care about the way I look at all Here is what prom is going to cost me: 1. Dress: $200 (MAXIMUM) 2. Ticket: $70 3. Limo: <$50 (my friend's dad owns a limo company) 4. Hair and makeup: free (i'm going to either do it myself, or have a freind do it) Total costs: MAXIMUM: $320.00 That is not anywhere near the ballpark range of thousands of dollars.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368] I'm sorry, but as a feminist, I'm very offended by that. How can you assume that just because the girls you know, and the stereotypical girls on lame American sitcoms look at prom that way, that all women look at prom that way! I do not know ANYBODY who has ever lost their virginity at prom, nor do I know anybody who PLANS or WANTS to lost their virginity at prom.
You are definitely not an average woman and I know for a fact people have spent above $2,000.00 on them and their date! It is usually the man who pays all that money. Men think that by buying everything for the women, she'll feel she owes him and this is where the bad relations come in. At the end of the night when the dance is over, he'll ask for 'that' to occur. When she says no, he'll say "BUT I PAID SO MUCH FOR THIS NIGHT, IT MEANS SO MUCH TO ME, IT'S THE LEAST YOU COULD FOR ME.... AND.... I ..... L..O..V..E... YOU!" -- THEN she says "AWWWW.... I'LL THINK ABOUT IT.." Then he'll beg for a while and sweet talk her and as soon as things begin, THEY DON'T END! -- I'M SORRY TO SAY THAT THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF STORY I HAVE HEARD FROM HUNDREDS OF MEN AND I AM NOT LYING WHEN I SAY THIS. ONCE THEY SAY THAT WORD "LOVE" IT'S ALL OVER FROM THERE! MEN WILL SAY ANYTHING TO GET THEIR WAY. THEY'LL PAY ANYTHING TO GET THEIR WAY! That's the sad truth! And it is even more sad that many women believe their lies.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368] For the last time, IN MY OPINION (just my opinion), I feel that if you want to go to prom, and you KNOW your prom is a good environment, and you know your school is a good school, and you trust your friends, etc....then go to your prom if you want to go! But either way, IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL!!!!!
Katherine, I understand this is your opinion. An opinion is what you think of something but to tell others to go, that is not part of your opinion and I'd just like you to read this one verse and think a lot about it. If even ONE person would listen to you and something bad may happen to them, you would not feel good. It is better for you not to recommend anyone to go for this reason.
From the Gospel according to Saint Matthew 18:6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
These are the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ and this verse appears in 3 Gospels and it is also in the Old Testament. I know it has a very strong meaning. It means a lot to me and I fear that during my sinful life, I have caused someone to sin and everyday I pray that God would forgive me if I have and I try to do all I can to prevent my brothers and sisters from falling into sin. As a servant I know this is what I must do and this is why I speak so strongly about this. I feel that if I tell ANYONE to go because they live in a good area, they may recommend it to someone else and... I fear what may happen if that person lived in a bad area.
There is another verse that means a lot to me because I was someone who thought I was invincible. I thought I could go anywhere and not be influenced. But then I was influenced after a long time, and I wondered why and how this could happen to me. I thought I was shielded, I thought I had the strength. Then someone showed me this verse.
From the First Epistle of Saint Paul to the Corinthians 15:33 "Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits."
Then I realized I had been deceiving myself and others. I really hope you understand me and see why I'm saying all of this. Please forgive me if I have upset you and please keep me in your prayers.
I know I'm going back on my word, when I said I'd stop posting on this topic, but I just couldn't resist making a few final statements:
1. I'm sorry if I was rude/bold/offensive to anybody. I wasn't feeling my best over the last few days (RIP Mr. O'Reilly, the greatest math teacher St. Francis Xavier SS ever had)....so I took it out on this board.
2. I am not in anyway advocating that a person should go to his or her prom. I hope that nobody has read my posts and have now said to him/her self "Okay, I wasn't going to prom, but she's completely changed my mind, I now want to go to prom" (I doubt I'm that convincing...but anyway). All I tried to get across in my posts was that prom is not a black and white issue, and everybody should look at it as a PERSONAL choice (not with help from internet buddies) that they make with their parents, and you could probably ask your FoC. All I have said is that for me (ME, not necessarily anybody else), I have decided to go to prom after a lot of contemplation, however, I am keeping in mind that situations, and friends and schools, do change, even in just one year, so I may change my mind about this issue.
3. Once again, whether or not you go to prom is not a life-changing decision. You wouldn't live an unfulfilled life if you miss your prom. But on the same note, I sincerely doubt that you will live an unfulfilled life because you do go to prom.
I havent been online for a week and I've been out of town, so I'd like to thank Katherine for sticking up for me because I wasn't trying to insult anyone, but I'm saying what is true: Prom has this notion were there is drinking and smoking and sex and all those evil corruptions...this maybe true but not at the Prom itself, maybe at the after party. I don't remember who said this about renting rooms to take there dates so they can have a woman for the night, but you might be right but I think the reason they rent the rooms is because people go with a group of friends over the weekend to a cabin or something because as you all know, the monday following Prom is Senior Ditch Day, and that's why they rent out those cabins, rooms, etc.
wel thank god, here in australia it aint like that at all!
we do dance, and eat and have an awards ceremony, but ours (well my scool anyway) is sooooooooooo formal, even our parents HAVE to attend. i know this isnt the case for other scools, and maybe jus my scool cus its a strict catholic one, but yea, there is an after party and ppl jus get drunk and the usual happens but it happens everywhere (but i will never attend an after-party, firstly cus my parents would kill me and secondly i wouldnt want to). ive heard so many stories from others who attended their fromals (wat we call em in australia) and said it was the best experience of their lives. i dont know wat u guys get up to in america, but havnt u heard of a reputation? i personally know that anyone would kill themselves if they did anything ridiculous at their formal cus it spreads faster than chinese whisppers lol.
I didn't read through all of this but i think prom is fine..... I mean go w/ a friend then just go home... thats what my friends older sister did and she is so happy she didn't miss it.. i think its a good memory i understand why some of u wouldn't let your children go but maybe if you just gave them limits or somthing like go to the prom... have fun.. hang out w/ friends then just come straight home ... or even just go to a resteraunt (thats why my friends sister did) and Nothing happened. ...
Comments
I definitely third that. Everybody thinks prom is just where you hang out for fun when it can get you to Satan. It is kind of like smoking, once you do it, it just goes downhill till you completely quit.
I'm pretty sure my sister, cousins, generally my whole family under the age of 25, and the vast majority of my friends are not Satanists because they went to prom. Also, it is in no way close to smoking (why is it that everything anybody does is always compared to smoking on these boards?). Smoking is a physcial and mental addiction (which leads to putting it as a "God" per say) and it destroys one's body (which is a temple). What's prom going to get you addicted to? Dancing (which isn't bad unless you dance in a certain style)? Your friends? Graduating? And how will prom ruin God's temple....dancing is actually great physical exercise...unless you really like the dinner, and thus become addicted to food.... :P
The thing is people are so ignorant!!!! You hear it is bad, yes maybe in some cases where some people do something stupid. But Prom itself is not bad, the afterparty were u go with your friends(your friends you picked) maybe bad or good, but prom in it of itself is not bad!!!
Quote from Bespetna I've had enough of this already. Many of your are not satisfied with stubbornly defending your desire to go to the prom. You seem insecure enough about your position that you have begun to disparage anyone who disagrees with you. How Christian is it to call people, many of whom are older and wiser than you "ignorant" and "stupid." (By the way, it'sinteresting how the person calling other's "stupid" did not even spell the word correctly.) If you want to spend hundreds of dollars to go to a party that is associated with many un-Christian ideals, then by all means do so, but do not call those who disagree with you stupid and ignorant. Are you an evil person for going to the prom? Of course not, but by going you are endorsing all of the things which are associated with this activity. It is a day that many have traditionally designated to lose their virginity. The atmosphere is one that supports pairing up and bringing dates. You need to think about your motives for going. If you are going just to say that you went, then I feel that there are much better things that you can do with your time and money.
Kbibo8, did you ever go to prom? I assume not because your stuck to the stereotype. And what you said I took very offensively, I'm not insecure with my postion and i disparage anyone who disagrees with me? The stereotype is prom is a dark evil place with many sinful things happening. That is not true, it is the afterparty where you go with your friends is what is bad and sinful not the prom in it of itself
How are you offended? You are the one calling others ignorant. That is what I meant by disparaging others. If you truly felt that you were correct then you would not need to resort to ad hominum attacks. You are also not listening to what is being said. I never said that prom is a "dark evil place." I did say that the things that it is associated with are evil. Therefore, if you want to be associated with those things then go right ahead. In all likelihood being a God fearing person you will not do anything wrong while you are there. But, why would you choose to go and associate yourself with those things that people do before and after prom.
No, I did not go to my school's prom, and I have never regretted my decision. However, what does that have to do with the discussion at hand. Do I have to go to a bar or night club to know that I don't want to be there? You do not not need to have done something to know that it is wrong.
You also did not seem to respond to my argument that it is a waste of money that God has entrusted you with.
[quote author=mtanious32 link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56724 date=1151035189]
The thing is people are so ignorant!!!! You hear it is bad, yes maybe in some cases where some people do something stupid. But Prom itself is not bad, the afterparty were u go with your friends(your friends you picked) maybe bad or good, but prom in it of itself is not bad!!!
I've had enough of this already. Many of your are not satisfied with stubbornly defending your desire to go to the prom. You seem insecure enough about your position that you have begun to disparage anyone who disagrees with you. How Christian is it to call people, many of whom are older and wiser than you "ignorant" and "stupid." (By the way, it'sinteresting how the person calling other's "stupid" did not even spell the word correctly.) If you want to spend hundreds of dollars to go to a party that is associated with many un-Christian ideals, then by all means do so, but do not call those who disagree with you stupid and ignorant. Are you an evil person for going to the prom? Of course not, but by going you are endorsing all of the things which are associated with this activity. It is a day that many have traditionally designated to lose their virginity. The atmosphere is one that supports pairing up and bringing dates. You need to think about your motives for going. If you are going just to say that you went, then I feel that there are much better things that you can do with your time and money.
Very well said my friend.
Secondly, mtanious wasn't trying to offend anybody. He was just saying that a lot of people on this board don't know anything about prom, because in all honesty, a lot of them are very misinformed. It's not an insult!
Thirdly, I really really doubt that people have sex at prom, while at the actual prom. It's kind of hard when you're in a hall filled with 600 people do that kind of thing...but even if it were completely possible, most people probably wouldn't! Prom is not some weird, twisted night where people will just abandon all their morals. If I have never smoked, drank, been sexually active in any way, etc... in my life, why would I suddenly do all of that at prom? A few people in my school play kept trying to get me to do weed, and if I rejected them then, why would I suddenly accept the weed at prom? If a person goes and does something immoral at prom, then there is a spiritual problem with them, not with the dinner and dance. If someone has sex at prom, that means they have no problem with having sex, so they would have had sex with the other person anyway, whether it be at prom, at school, or in their own house.
Also, about the money issue, I worked three months at McDonalds so I could afford a retreat to St. Anthony's Monastery in California, so please don't imply that people who go to prom are frivilous with their money. Also, it costs money to do almost anything, so if we are supposed to be very safe with the "money that God entrusted us with" then that means we should never go on vacation, to the movies, any form of arcade, any tourist attraction etc...
GB ALL
+FROG+
I'm not sure if this helps, but i did go to prom - and it totally wasnt worth it...evryone makes it out to be some great night n soo much fun, n I had the whole blown out wi/ a limo n evrythen......but basically i've had more fun on normal gatherings with friends....dun wrry ur not missing much lol =/
LOL! That made my day! Yeah, as I've mentioned before, prom is just a few hours at a banquet hall. In my opinion (which could be completely wrong), for some people it's not a great thing, but other people I know look at is as one of the best days of their high school experience. It all depends on the person. It's not a big deal to me if you don't go. But if you don't go, don't look down at people who do go, and say things about how they are "frivilous with their money" or make them feel like their satanists or defying the church by going. Overall, prom IS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL, no matter how you look at it. If you don't go, then that's fine. If you do go, then I bet 20 bucks you won't end up pregnant, or drunk, or high etc.... Prom is one night, and it's exaggerated by both people at church as being bad, and by the media as being the biggest day of your life.
I suggest we all just stop discussing prom, because honestly, I just don't care anymore. It's really not that big of a deal....
How are you? I hope you are doing well. I would just like to share my thoughts and feelings with you and those on this site because I'm very sad at much of what is being said. I feel that you are really trying to make points, yet you are not looking at the whole situation. You are also making very generalized statements and I'd like to share my feelings regarding what you have said. You seem to be the strongest advocate so I want to direct my thoughts towards what you said.
I do not want you to get upset at some of the things I am going to say, but I fear that by what you’re saying, some may have a real misunderstanding. I respect you a lot and I want you take what I say with an open heart to understand what I mean. I'm going to try to say it as clear as possible. This is just my 2nd post on this site and I never want to offend anyone, I just want you to see what I'm saying about some of the points you made. Please forgive me if I sound upset at anytime, I just need to share my feelings.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56331 date=1150317033]
Also, I have known most of my friends since about 5th grade, and NONE of them dance the way that most teenagers dance, and we all just like being silly. Also, none of us plan on bringing any form of "date" to the prom (even though their parents fully allow them to date, they don't want to). So for me, prom is not anything "filled with defilement and temptation", it's just a fancier version of our eighth grade graduation party.
Of course, this is just my opinion, and I could be completely wrong. I've realized from talking with others that there is nothing wrong with not going to your prom. If don't feel comfortable in prom-like situations, or if you just don't enjoy dancing, or if you think you'll be tempted, don't go. It is probably over-rated as an event to begin with (once you move onto university/college, prom and high school probably feel like nothing), however, it still isn't something I personally would like to miss. My school's graduation ceremony is in October of the year after you graduate, because a lot of kids take summer school to boost up their marks and be eligible for their diploma. B/c of it being in October, most kids dont show up to grad, so prom would be the final oppertunity i'd have to see the people who I met and who have inspired me over my high school years.
The first thing I'd like to make clear is that I'm a person who was born and raised in America and I understand what is going on, so I speak from experience with those around me. Your first point here is that you and your friends will not bring any dates with you to the prom. Maybe what you do not realize is that is EXACTLY what most men look forward to, women with NO dates. Why you may ask? Because they are free to do as they please with you because you have NO man who is going to stand in the way!!
Maybe you don't realize how much outside planning goes into prom! The classmates I grew up with in school spent MONTHS planning and THOUSANDS of dollars. They would rent an entire house for a whole week at the shore to go to after prom. Their hope and desire is to have a different woman each and every night. They don't want to go with a date, they’d prefer not to! They don't want to be tied down with one woman, they'd like to be with as many as possible! Women going alone are the PERFECT target for those men. You seem not to see this side of prom. Prom itself is the perfect opportunity to meet women and this is the goal of every man. Prom is the day women and men LOSE their virginity! It is your opportunity to get ready for college by having your first encounter with a man or women the end of senior year as EVERYONE in America knows and as it is portrayed in American TV shows and MOVIES too!
This is REALITY! I grew up with it! All 4 years in high school I saw the same thing with every graduating class. Throughout my college career, many of my classmates went back to prom just to be with a young woman and trick her to take her virginity away! Women expect this as the day to lose it! They feel as though you must be ready for men in college because they don't want inexperienced women! And this is the REAL way people think! Please don't deny it, I grew up for all my life in America and I've been all around America, men are the same everywhere! Girls know when prom comes around, their boyfriends are expecting them to give up their virginity if they haven't already done so. Prom is not for the bad girls as you think, it’s for good girls to become bad!
Another thing about your above post, how could you say "If you THINK you'll be tempted"!? Do you not realize that satan is waiting for an opportunity like this to tempt you in? In a place where most of the people have prepared for themselves drugs and alcohol and all kinds of evil just outside the prom door and are just hoping to meet as many women as possible and invite them to their house down at the shore! When you say this, the devil will be SURE to do his best and tempt you and believe me, if you put your self in the face of temptation and say you won't fall, you will be sure to be fall.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56369 date=1150407860]
Also, on behalf of the people who organize prom, I'm offended by the notion that it is like a club. It is about a million times classier than any club because what most people forget is that prom is also a dinner in which people dress up well, and they are very formal. Clubs are trashy, drunken, filthy bars filled with people who are half naked (not that I've been to a club, just to clarify, but I've heard this from others).
Regarding your above post, why are you even offended?? The people who make prom don't care about the people going to prom! They don't try to stop the wrong that surrounds prom! They don't discourage people from going to the shore! Most schools have already gotten used to the seniors missing a week after prom and they allow it as an excused absence because they understand everyone is busy losing their virginity and drinking alcohol and doing drugs. Go to the shore of most states during the summer months, especially prom time, and you'll find nothing but drunk and high teenagers who have rented houses all up and down the shore!
And you are offended by the notion that it is like club? It is EXACTLY like the trashy clubs! Do you not realize that most clubs in America have a VERY strict dress code and you can't enter if your simply wearing sneakers or boots! You must be very, VERY well dressed for almost all of the REAL nightclubs in America. When I'm in college, I see people leaving the dorms dressed better than they would to go to a wedding! They are going with their best clothes and nicest car in order to walk out with the most women and many more numbers!
It seems you have not done your research before speaking and that is very upsetting because you claim to want to clarify the situation and I'm sorry to say you need it to be clarified for you. Go to New York City any night of the week and walk around and find me one person not dressed well for a club! SATAN MAKES ALL SIN APPEALING TO US! HE DOES NOT SHOW IT AS DIRTY AND NASTY OR ELSE NO ONE WOULD COMMIT SIN! THIS IS ONE OF THE GREATEST TRICKS OF THE DEVIL. HE DISGUISES SIN AND WE ALL FALL FOR IT!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56369 date=1150407860]
Also, you can't just avoid social situations just because you are scared that there is a 0.0000000000000000000001% chance you will "fall into temptation". I know that there are people who go to my church youth group who smoke marijuana, but should I avoid church youth group because there is a small chance they might offer it to me? Should I avoid going to a sports game because they sell beer there? Should you not go to a shopping mall because you might be tempted to steal? It's the same thing with prom. I'm not going to avoid my prom because some girl or guy who I've never met (my school has 2200 students) might dance in a dirty fashion. I'm going to go dress up nicely, eat my dinner with my friends, and do a lame version of the waltz...whether the music in the background is Mozart or not is not my problem. I don't even know how to dance dirtily even if I wanted to (which I don't)
Who said to avoid social situations??? I don't understand! Prom is an event that is really not all about having a wonderful night with your friends! 95% of the people you'll be surrounded with are planning an AFTER party!! They don't care about the 2-3 hour prom! It's just another school event everyone is used to attending but ultimately, they're dying for the after party! Are you surrounded by good people who just want to have a genuine clean time? NO! They are their to dance and many people I knew in high school went to the prom drunk or high already so they'd have a nicer time! Dancing nowadays is FILTHY! You rub yourself up against someone you may not even know! Yet when you're at prom OR a club, NO ONE CARES. You dance with whoever is closest to you! And while you are daincing, what do you think is going on in their head? THAT IS SOMETHING I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT! I'm sure some of the worse sinful thoughts are in their mind! And how do you think those people will look at you? WITH A CLEAN EYE? NO CERTAINLY NOT! WITH A DIRTY EYE AND YOU'LL BE LOOKED IN WAYS I KNOW NO ONE WOULD EVER WANT TO! Why would you want anyone looking at you that way? WHY give someone an opportunity to treat you dirt in their mind??
How could you EVER point out the sins of others and use that as some sort of sad excuse! CHURCH IS NOT SOCIAL SITUATION! No one said to avoid all social situations anyway and if they did, they are wrong! We are discussing a bad environment people are going to such as PROM or a club. People going to Church are entering a HOLY environment where SINNERS come to REPENT! EVERYONE going to Church is a sinner and NO ONE is better than another! The simple fact that they are in Church is because they want to learn about God and He will touch their heart and change them! Everyone sitting to your right and left in Church is a sinner! They are not going there to commit sin but to REPENT of their sins! They are going there to hear a Spiritual word that will touch their heart and bring them back to God and make them overcome their weaknesses. People going to prom are simply GROWING WEAKER by giving in to their flesh desires! DON'T EVER COMPARE CHURCH WITH ANY PLACE PLEASE! Don't EVER mention your brothers and sisters sins because lying is just like doing drugs and those people need your help and support to overcome their addiction!
Church is a place we go to seek comfort and guide each other and help each other overcome our weaknesses! You are in Church to pray for those standing next to you on your right and your left and to pray for those outside who have no one to pray for them.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304]
Secondly, mtanious wasn't trying to offend anybody. He was just saying that a lot of people on this board don't know anything about prom, because in all honesty, a lot of them are very misinformed. It's not an insult!
I'm very sorry and sad to say that you are both very misinformed. Please consider me as your older brother sharing my feelings with you from what I KNOW to be true. I am not many years older than you and I just went through all of this and I'm not a person who blinds himself to everything around us. I study and I learn every side of every situation. I would like you guys to examine what I have put forth here and to respond to me and tell me how you think, please.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304]
Prom is not some weird, twisted night where people will just abandon all their morals. If I have never smoked, drank, been sexually active in any way, etc... in my life, why would I suddenly do all of that at prom?
I'm sorry to say, this night is definitely a very terrible night for many people. Although most think its a great night to get drunk and do drugs! I knew SO many women and men who regretted that day for the rest of their lives because of what occurred on that night, IMMEDIATELY following prom. Prom is just the start to a night filled with sin. Please open your eyes and understand that. ALMOST all of America is the same! Maybe some remote part where the school has 10 people graduating then prom is not like this. But for every other part of America, prom is a night to dance and then to continue the night at a party and fulfill what America expects to occur! AND IT DOES HAPPEN, I ASSURE YOU IT DOES!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304]
Also, about the money issue, I worked three months at McDonalds so I could afford a retreat to St. Anthony's Monastery in California, so please don't imply that people who go to prom are frivilous with their money. Also, it costs money to do almost anything, so if we are supposed to be very safe with the "money that God entrusted us with" then that means we should never go on vacation, to the movies, any form of arcade, any tourist attraction etc...
About the money issue, I have seen people spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS on prom, especially women! When is the last time we spent a THOUSAND dollars to buy our own mother and father a gift? When is the last time we bought our siblings a gift for that much? Surely they are worth more to us than a one night 2 or 3 hour event! There is so much more that can be said, but I've said a lot and I'll save it for another day.
Katherine, you seem to really be missing the point here, we're discussing PROM, not a vacation, or a movie, or an arcade, or tourist attraction and what relation do they have? Almost ALL the people surrounding you in PROM have bad intentions and PROM is known as a night people plan to have bad relations together and they rent a place to do these activities too! People going to a vacation want to relax with their family and friends and have a NICE time, they aren't going with mom and dad to do drugs. You go to a tourist attraction to enjoy the beauty of whatever is there to be seen. You are not going there to do drugs or to have bad relations with women. Please stop relation UNrelated things together. The whole point is that prom is VERY well known for a lot of NEGATIVE activity.
PLEASE forgive me if anyone feels I have spoken too strongly about this subject but this is how I feel and I speak from my experiences and from what I have seen all around me all the years of my life. Please respond to any point I have made and please comment or ask questions, or correct anything I've said. I'd like to have a good discussion about the points I've put forth here.Please forgive me and pray for me.
Dear Katherine,
How are you? I hope you are doing well. I would just like to share my thoughts and feelings with you and those on this site because I'm very sad at much of what is being said. I feel that you are really trying to make points, yet you are not looking at the whole situation. You are also making very generalized statements and I'd like to share my feelings regarding what you have said. You seem to be the strongest advocate so I want to direct my thoughts towards what you said.
I do not want you to get upset at some of the things I am going to say, but I fear that by what you’re saying, some may have a real misunderstanding. I respect you a lot and I want you take what I say with an open heart to understand what I mean. I'm going to try to say it as clear as possible. This is just my 2nd post on this site and I never want to offend anyone, I just want you to see what I'm saying about some of the points you made. Please forgive me if I sound upset at anytime, I just need to share my feelings.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56331 date=1150317033]
Also, I have known most of my friends since about 5th grade, and NONE of them dance the way that most teenagers dance, and we all just like being silly. Also, none of us plan on bringing any form of "date" to the prom (even though their parents fully allow them to date, they don't want to). So for me, prom is not anything "filled with defilement and temptation", it's just a fancier version of our eighth grade graduation party.
Of course, this is just my opinion, and I could be completely wrong. I've realized from talking with others that there is nothing wrong with not going to your prom. If don't feel comfortable in prom-like situations, or if you just don't enjoy dancing, or if you think you'll be tempted, don't go. It is probably over-rated as an event to begin with (once you move onto university/college, prom and high school probably feel like nothing), however, it still isn't something I personally would like to miss. My school's graduation ceremony is in October of the year after you graduate, because a lot of kids take summer school to boost up their marks and be eligible for their diploma. B/c of it being in October, most kids dont show up to grad, so prom would be the final oppertunity i'd have to see the people who I met and who have inspired me over my high school years.
The first thing I'd like to make clear is that I'm a person who was born and raised in America and I understand what is going on, so I speak from experience with those around me. Your first point here is that you and your friends will not bring any dates with you to the prom. Maybe what you do not realize is that is EXACTLY what most men look forward to, women with NO dates. Why you may ask? Because they are free to do as they please with you because you have NO man who is going to stand in the way!!
Maybe you don't realize how much outside planning goes into prom! The classmates I grew up with in school spent MONTHS planning and THOUSANDS of dollars. They would rent an entire house for a whole week at the shore to go to after prom. Their hope and desire is to have a different woman each and every night. They don't want to go with a date, they’d prefer not to! They don't want to be tied down with one woman, they'd like to be with as many as possible! Women going alone are the PERFECT target for those men. You seem not to see this side of prom. Prom itself is the perfect opportunity to meet women and this is the goal of every man. Prom is the day women and men LOSE their virginity! It is your opportunity to get ready for college by having your first encounter with a man or women the end of senior year as EVERYONE in America knows and as it is portrayed in American TV shows and MOVIES too!
This is REALITY! I grew up with it! All 4 years in high school I saw the same thing with every graduating class. Throughout my college career, many of my classmates went back to prom just to be with a young woman and trick her to take her virginity away! Women expect this as the day to lose it! They feel as though you must be ready for men in college because they don't want inexperienced women! And this is the REAL way people think! Please don't deny it, I grew up for all my life in America and I've been all around America, men are the same everywhere! Girls know when prom comes around, their boyfriends are expecting them to give up their virginity if they haven't already done so. Prom is not for the bad girls as you think, it’s for good girls to become bad!
Another thing about your above post, how could you say "If you THINK you'll be tempted"!? Do you not realize that satan is waiting for an opportunity like this to tempt you in? In a place where most of the people have prepared for themselves drugs and alcohol and all kinds of evil just outside the prom door and are just hoping to meet as many women as possible and invite them to their house down at the shore! When you say this, the devil will be SURE to do his best and tempt you and believe me, if you put your self in the face of temptation and say you won't fall, you will be sure to be fall.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56369 date=1150407860]
Also, on behalf of the people who organize prom, I'm offended by the notion that it is like a club. It is about a million times classier than any club because what most people forget is that prom is also a dinner in which people dress up well, and they are very formal. Clubs are trashy, drunken, filthy bars filled with people who are half naked (not that I've been to a club, just to clarify, but I've heard this from others).
Regarding your above post, why are you even offended?? The people who make prom don't care about the people going to prom! They don't try to stop the wrong that surrounds prom! They don't discourage people from going to the shore! Most schools have already gotten used to the seniors missing a week after prom and they allow it as an excused absence because they understand everyone is busy losing their virginity and drinking alcohol and doing drugs. Go to the shore of most states during the summer months, especially prom time, and you'll find nothing but drunk and high teenagers who have rented houses all up and down the shore!
And you are offended by the notion that it is like club? It is EXACTLY like the trashy clubs! Do you not realize that most clubs in America have a VERY strict dress code and you can't enter if your simply wearing sneakers or boots! You must be very, VERY well dressed for almost all of the REAL nightclubs in America. When I'm in college, I see people leaving the dorms dressed better than they would to go to a wedding! They are going with their best clothes and nicest car in order to walk out with the most women and many more numbers!
It seems you have not done your research before speaking and that is very upsetting because you claim to want to clarify the situation and I'm sorry to say you need it to be clarified for you. Go to New York City any night of the week and walk around and find me one person not dressed well for a club! SATAN MAKES ALL SIN APPEALING TO US! HE DOES NOT SHOW IT AS DIRTY AND NASTY OR ELSE NO ONE WOULD COMMIT SIN! THIS IS ONE OF THE GREATEST TRICKS OF THE DEVIL. HE DISGUISES SIN AND WE ALL FALL FOR IT!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=15#msg56369 date=1150407860]
Also, you can't just avoid social situations just because you are scared that there is a 0.0000000000000000000001% chance you will "fall into temptation". I know that there are people who go to my church youth group who smoke marijuana, but should I avoid church youth group because there is a small chance they might offer it to me? Should I avoid going to a sports game because they sell beer there? Should you not go to a shopping mall because you might be tempted to steal? It's the same thing with prom. I'm not going to avoid my prom because some girl or guy who I've never met (my school has 2200 students) might dance in a dirty fashion. I'm going to go dress up nicely, eat my dinner with my friends, and do a lame version of the waltz...whether the music in the background is Mozart or not is not my problem. I don't even know how to dance dirtily even if I wanted to (which I don't)
Who said to avoid social situations??? I don't understand! Prom is an event that is really not all about having a wonderful night with your friends! 95% of the people you'll be surrounded with are planning an AFTER party!! They don't care about the 2-3 hour prom! It's just another school event everyone is used to attending but ultimately, they're dying for the after party! Are you surrounded by good people who just want to have a genuine clean time? NO! They are their to dance and many people I knew in high school went to the prom drunk or high already so they'd have a nicer time! Dancing nowadays is FILTHY! You rub yourself up against someone you may not even know! Yet when you're at prom OR a club, NO ONE CARES. You dance with whoever is closest to you! And while you are daincing, what do you think is going on in their head? THAT IS SOMETHING I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT! I'm sure some of the worse sinful thoughts are in their mind! And how do you think those people will look at you? WITH A CLEAN EYE? NO CERTAINLY NOT! WITH A DIRTY EYE AND YOU'LL BE LOOKED IN WAYS I KNOW NO ONE WOULD EVER WANT TO! Why would you want anyone looking at you that way? WHY give someone an opportunity to treat you dirt in their mind??
How could you EVER point out the sins of others and use that as some sort of sad excuse! CHURCH IS NOT SOCIAL SITUATION! No one said to avoid all social situations anyway and if they did, they are wrong! We are discussing a bad environment people are going to such as PROM or a club. People going to Church are entering a HOLY environment where SINNERS come to REPENT! EVERYONE going to Church is a sinner and NO ONE is better than another! The simple fact that they are in Church is because they want to learn about God and He will touch their heart and change them! Everyone sitting to your right and left in Church is a sinner! They are not going there to commit sin but to REPENT of their sins! They are going there to hear a Spiritual word that will touch their heart and bring them back to God and make them overcome their weaknesses. People going to prom are simply GROWING WEAKER by giving in to their flesh desires! DON'T EVER COMPARE CHURCH WITH ANY PLACE PLEASE! Don't EVER mention your brothers and sisters sins because lying is just like doing drugs and those people need your help and support to overcome their addiction!
Church is a place we go to seek comfort and guide each other and help each other overcome our weaknesses! You are in Church to pray for those standing next to you on your right and your left and to pray for those outside who have no one to pray for them.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304]
Secondly, mtanious wasn't trying to offend anybody. He was just saying that a lot of people on this board don't know anything about prom, because in all honesty, a lot of them are very misinformed. It's not an insult!
I'm very sorry and sad to say that you are both very misinformed. Please consider me as your older brother sharing my feelings with you from what I KNOW to be true. I am not many years older than you and I just went through all of this and I'm not a person who blinds himself to everything around us. I study and I learn every side of every situation. I would like you guys to examine what I have put forth here and to respond to me and tell me how you think, please.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304]
Prom is not some weird, twisted night where people will just abandon all their morals. If I have never smoked, drank, been sexually active in any way, etc... in my life, why would I suddenly do all of that at prom?
I'm sorry to say, this night is definitely a very terrible night for many people. Although most think its a great night to get drunk and do drugs! I knew SO many women and men who regretted that day for the rest of their lives because of what occurred on that night, IMMEDIATELY following prom. Prom is just the start to a night filled with sin. Please open your eyes and understand that. ALMOST all of America is the same! Maybe some remote part where the school has 10 people graduating then prom is not like this. But for every other part of America, prom is a night to dance and then to continue the night at a party and fulfill what America expects to occur! AND IT DOES HAPPEN, I ASSURE YOU IT DOES!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56747 date=1151123304]
Also, about the money issue, I worked three months at McDonalds so I could afford a retreat to St. Anthony's Monastery in California, so please don't imply that people who go to prom are frivilous with their money. Also, it costs money to do almost anything, so if we are supposed to be very safe with the "money that God entrusted us with" then that means we should never go on vacation, to the movies, any form of arcade, any tourist attraction etc...
About the money issue, I have seen people spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS on prom, especially women! When is the last time we spent a THOUSAND dollars to buy our own mother and father a gift? When is the last time we bought our siblings a gift for that much? Surely they are worth more to us than a one night 2 or 3 hour event! There is so much more that can be said, but I've said a lot and I'll save it for another day.
Katherine, you seem to really be missing the point here, we're discussing PROM, not a vacation, or a movie, or an arcade, or tourist attraction and what relation do they have? Almost ALL the people surrounding you in PROM have bad intentions and PROM is known as a night people plan to have bad relations together and they rent a place to do these activities too! People going to a vacation want to relax with their family and friends and have a NICE time, they aren't going with mom and dad to do drugs. You go to a tourist attraction to enjoy the beauty of whatever is there to be seen. You are not going there to do drugs or to have bad relations with women. Please stop relation UNrelated things together. The whole point is that prom is VERY well known for a lot of NEGATIVE activity.
PLEASE forgive me if anyone feels I have spoken too strongly about this subject but this is how I feel and I speak from my experiences and from what I have seen all around me all the years of my life. Please respond to any point I have made and please comment or ask questions, or correct anything I've said. I'd like to have a good discussion about the points I've put forth here.Please forgive me and pray for me.
Very, VERY well said. Exellent job.
I cannot say if prom is bad or good, because i never went, and anything i say would only be based on what i've heard about it, although i have read all of SeekerOfTruth's post, which makes great points (but i honestly dont think that all proms in all schools are the same) in my school i was the only coptic person not to go, and about 11 copts did go...half of them went as a group of girls, i am quite sure they did not lose their virgnity because they went to prom, i know that they did not dance with no boys, but in fact were just having dinner, and the girls danced together, and no one got drunk..and no one went to anywhere afterwards.....and i know i wasn't there....but i dont see why 11 people would lie about what went on during prom...., and i dont believe that any of them are bad people because they went, its a personal choice
lastly, would just like to say "all things are lawful unto me but not all things are expedient" 1 Cor 6:12
How are you? I hope you are doing great. I just want to respond to some points you made. Let me begin by using the words of the Holy Bible.
From the First Epistle of Saint Paul to the Corinthians 15:33 "Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits."
I think the words of the Holy Spirit are very clear. Do NOT be deceived!! We THINK we will not be affected by anyone even if we're in a room full of people who are doing evil things. You must understand that we cannot lie to ourselves just because we THINK its not going to hurt us. And yes, it is evil to dance while rubbing yourself up against someone and this is NORMAL dancing in today's world, even slow dancing is rubbing up all over a person! IS THIS APPROPRIATE for God's children to do? Allow someone to have bad thoughts of them as they are all over them?
Are people at these events fully clothed? Or do they wear revealing attire? Will this not cause us to look and sin?? PLEASE don't tell me that people dress like this everywhere because this place is DESIGNED for people to dress that way and you are surrounded by HUNDREDS and you are in a closed off room and you can't leave because the school is responsible for you!! If you were in a mall and saw a half naked man or woman you can turn away immediately and LEAVE!
[quote author=PrincessMary link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=30#msg56876 date=1151347446]
Look, i just want to say that prom is not a big deal, i didnt go to my high school prom, it wasn't like the end of the world...!, so what if u dont go....
I cannot say if prom is bad or good, because i never went, and anything i say would only be based on what i've heard about it, although i have read all of SeekerOfTruth's post, which makes great points (but i honestly dont think that all proms in all schools are the same) in my school i was the only coptic person not to go, and about 11 copts did go...half of them went as a group of girls, i am quite sure they did not lose their virgnity because they went to prom, i know that they did not dance with no boys, but in fact were just having dinner, and the girls danced together, and no one got drunk..and no one went to anywhere afterwards.....and i know i wasn't there....but i dont see why 11 people would lie about what went on during prom...., and i dont believe that any of them are bad people because they went, its a personal choice
lastly, would just like to say "all things are lawful unto me but not all things are expedient" 1 Cor 6:12
I understand you are quite sure they didn't lose their virginity and I'm glad that is true. But don't you realize how great the temptation is around you? EVERYONE in that room has bad thoughts on their mind, I assure you, EVERYONE! When you KNOW everyone around you is going to have bad relations and you are the only one, you may begin to feel left out. Even if this doesn't have an affect on you that day! YOU WILL constantly think about it and it will bother you. Just because they didn't drink that day doesn't mean they won't after everyone tells them how much of an amazing time they had that night! That night can be the thing that causes them to be curious to want to try it! After prom and towards the end of school there will be HUNDREDS of parties every other day at peoples houses and it will contain all the same activities as prom, bad relations, drinking, and drugs and you will be invited!
Do you know what CONDONING someone's actions means? It means "to overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure." While you are at these places you are surrounded by people who are doing evil activities! Everything they are doing is not Godly! Godly acts bear fruit and bring you and others around you closer to God! How can having someone all over them be good!?! When you are not doing anything to prevent bad things going on around you, you are simply condoning the action and saying its okay and it doesnt affect you. But as we see from the words of the Holy Bible, by condoning someones actions, they WILL affect us! When we tell people we don't mind what they are doing around us, it means that your beliefs don't teach you a right or wrong and whatever you feel is okay you do. THIS IS NOT TRUE. We know what is right and we know what is wrong. LIGHT CANNOT EXIST WHERE THERE IS DARKNESS AND DARKNESS CANNOT EXIST WHERE THERE IS LIGHT. If we were truly a light to the world, how can we stand amongst darkness and not light up the room? We are simply HIDING our lamp under a basket and pretending we're not a light! THIS IS NOT RIGHT.
Once again I'll turn to the words of the Holy Bible.
From the Epistle of Saint James 4:17 "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."
Please keep me in your prayers and I hope you understand what I said. If I have said anything wrong, please correct me.
I'm really sorry to hear about your math teacher. May God be with his family, friends, and students and comfort them.
First, I'd like to apologize for leaving room for you to misunderstand what I said. I really hope and pray you are not upset with me. I didn't mean for you to get upset. When I said "YOU" during my posting it was not targetted at you. You is also said when discussing a group of people, at least in the American way of using the word.
When I said you were the strongest advocate, I simply meant on this forum, you wrote the most and there were many things you said that did not give a true picture of prom here in America. If someone were to read your posts then go to prom here, they may leave very shocked because it is NOT the place they expected.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368]
I have been trying to end this discussion for a very long time. I'm just going to make a final post on this issue....after that I'm leaving, because frankly, I'm tired of being looked down upon here like I'm some form of radical infidel, and I feel like everybody is repeating the same arguements of
I really, REALLY hope you do not leave this site because of my words. They were not meant to upset you and I was simply trying to make clear my point. Please do not leave this site for this reason. I do not think this way of you. You are from Canada and you are speaking about the issue from how you know it, but I think there are so many people from America reading your posts and then misunderstanding it. I don't see anything wrong with anything else you have ever said on this side and I admire you for many things you have said. Please do not let this upset you. Please!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368]
Well, I live up in good old Canada, and unfortunately, what most people don't realize, is that those are two VERY different nations,
I realize America and Canada are very different. I've been to Canada many times and I have a cousin who from Mississauga who probably attends the same Church you do. It's a huge beautiful Chruch and it also has a school in it.
The fact that we are from different countries means things don't run the same way there as they do here. You must realize that what is bothering me is I feel prom is really being misrepresented on this post. Prom has become a terrible event here. 10 or 15 years ago, no one in Church even knew or cared about it.
The only reason it is talked about so much now is because parents heard how terrible it was and they did the right thing and turned to the Church to find out about it and to know if they should allow their children to go. Many Priests say not to go because they know the town the children live in and it is terrible. There may be Priests who never heard a bad word about prom and therefore leave the judgement up to the parents, or they may have been told it is a nice dinner and so they say go.
We must realize that the reason why we have Priests and people giving different opinions is ONLY because every area is different, not because they mean to contradict each other!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368]
Maybe what you do not realize is that is EXACTLY what most men look forward to, women with NO dates. Why you may ask? Because they are free to do as they please with you because you have NO man who is going to stand in the way!!
They are free to do as they please with me? What kind of girl do you take me for? Do you think I'm just going to let some guy come up to me and "have his way" with me!
I'd like to just explain what I meant. I never meant YOU personally, I was just saying you as in you women. It is true that this happens because I know for a fact it has happened, here in America. I know our women wouldn't let this happen to them, but men DON'T care who you are, they will try. I would NEVER want a man even ATTEMPTING to approach my sister in that way! That's why I'd never allow her to be in that situation in the first place. Disrespectful men have NO limits whatsoever!
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368]
Well, I'm definately not what people would call an average woman. I don't care about the way I look at all Here is what prom is going to cost me:
1. Dress: $200 (MAXIMUM)
2. Ticket: $70
3. Limo: <$50 (my friend's dad owns a limo company)
4. Hair and makeup: free (i'm going to either do it myself, or have a freind do it)
Total costs: MAXIMUM: $320.00
That is not anywhere near the ballpark range of thousands of dollars.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368]
I'm sorry, but as a feminist, I'm very offended by that. How can you assume that just because the girls you know, and the stereotypical girls on lame American sitcoms look at prom that way, that all women look at prom that way! I do not know ANYBODY who has ever lost their virginity at prom, nor do I know anybody who PLANS or WANTS to lost their virginity at prom.
You are definitely not an average woman and I know for a fact people have spent above $2,000.00 on them and their date! It is usually the man who pays all that money. Men think that by buying everything for the women, she'll feel she owes him and this is where the bad relations come in. At the end of the night when the dance is over, he'll ask for 'that' to occur. When she says no, he'll say "BUT I PAID SO MUCH FOR THIS NIGHT, IT MEANS SO MUCH TO ME, IT'S THE LEAST YOU COULD FOR ME.... AND.... I ..... L..O..V..E... YOU!" -- THEN she says "AWWWW.... I'LL THINK ABOUT IT.." Then he'll beg for a while and sweet talk her and as soon as things begin, THEY DON'T END! -- I'M SORRY TO SAY THAT THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF STORY I HAVE HEARD FROM HUNDREDS OF MEN AND I AM NOT LYING WHEN I SAY THIS. ONCE THEY SAY THAT WORD "LOVE" IT'S ALL OVER FROM THERE! MEN WILL SAY ANYTHING TO GET THEIR WAY. THEY'LL PAY ANYTHING TO GET THEIR WAY! That's the sad truth! And it is even more sad that many women believe their lies.
[quote author=Katherine link=board=13;threadid=3889;start=45#msg56888 date=1151372368]
For the last time, IN MY OPINION (just my opinion), I feel that if you want to go to prom, and you KNOW your prom is a good environment, and you know your school is a good school, and you trust your friends, etc....then go to your prom if you want to go! But either way, IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL!!!!!
Katherine, I understand this is your opinion. An opinion is what you think of something but to tell others to go, that is not part of your opinion and I'd just like you to read this one verse and think a lot about it. If even ONE person would listen to you and something bad may happen to them, you would not feel good. It is better for you not to recommend anyone to go for this reason.
From the Gospel according to Saint Matthew 18:6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
These are the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ and this verse appears in 3 Gospels and it is also in the Old Testament. I know it has a very strong meaning. It means a lot to me and I fear that during my sinful life, I have caused someone to sin and everyday I pray that God would forgive me if I have and I try to do all I can to prevent my brothers and sisters from falling into sin. As a servant I know this is what I must do and this is why I speak so strongly about this. I feel that if I tell ANYONE to go because they live in a good area, they may recommend it to someone else and... I fear what may happen if that person lived in a bad area.
There is another verse that means a lot to me because I was someone who thought I was invincible. I thought I could go anywhere and not be influenced. But then I was influenced after a long time, and I wondered why and how this could happen to me. I thought I was shielded, I thought I had the strength. Then someone showed me this verse.
From the First Epistle of Saint Paul to the Corinthians 15:33 "Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits."
Then I realized I had been deceiving myself and others. I really hope you understand me and see why I'm saying all of this. Please forgive me if I have upset you and please keep me in your prayers.
1. I'm sorry if I was rude/bold/offensive to anybody. I wasn't feeling my best over the last few days (RIP Mr. O'Reilly, the greatest math teacher St. Francis Xavier SS ever had)....so I took it out on this board.
2. I am not in anyway advocating that a person should go to his or her prom. I hope that nobody has read my posts and have now said to him/her self "Okay, I wasn't going to prom, but she's completely changed my mind, I now want to go to prom" (I doubt I'm that convincing...but anyway). All I tried to get across in my posts was that prom is not a black and white issue, and everybody should look at it as a PERSONAL choice (not with help from internet buddies) that they make with their parents, and you could probably ask your FoC. All I have said is that for me (ME, not necessarily anybody else), I have decided to go to prom after a lot of contemplation, however, I am keeping in mind that situations, and friends and schools, do change, even in just one year, so I may change my mind about this issue.
3. Once again, whether or not you go to prom is not a life-changing decision. You wouldn't live an unfulfilled life if you miss your prom. But on the same note, I sincerely doubt that you will live an unfulfilled life because you do go to prom.
we do dance, and eat and have an awards ceremony, but ours (well my scool anyway) is sooooooooooo formal, even our parents HAVE to attend. i know this isnt the case for other scools, and maybe jus my scool cus its a strict catholic one, but yea, there is an after party and ppl jus get drunk and the usual happens but it happens everywhere (but i will never attend an after-party, firstly cus my parents would kill me and secondly i wouldnt want to). ive heard so many stories from others who attended their fromals (wat we call em in australia) and said it was the best experience of their lives. i dont know wat u guys get up to in america, but havnt u heard of a reputation? i personally know that anyone would kill themselves if they did anything ridiculous at their formal cus it spreads faster than chinese whisppers lol.