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Apocrypha vs. Deuterocanonical

confusedsoulconfusedsoul
edited July 2006 in Faith Issues
Apocrpha Vs. Deutrocanonical

i want to kno but i can't trust internent becuz they might not go by the way the coptic orthodox church believes it.
help?

Comments

  • Unknown
    charitablesoul,

    I modified your topic name. Please, in the future, when you are filling out the "subject" tab upon the creation of a new topic, please define the subject of your thread as it requests. "Ummyeah" as a thread title isn't going to help anyone. Thank you.
  • confusedsoulconfusedsoul
    O ok. Sry. :-\ :)
  • bron3bron3
    One of the preists in our church says we call them the deutrocanonicl books, because apocrypha means "lost" and our church doesnt beleive that they are lost, but rather they are part of our current bible.
  • Unknown
    I'm not sure if this is correct, but I remember reading that the Coptic Pope removed these books from the Bible canon and adopted the Jewish/Protestant OT canon. Someone know if this is right?
  • Unknown

    I'm not sure if this is correct, but I remember reading that the Coptic Pope removed these books from the Bible canon and adopted the Jewish/Protestant OT canon. Someone know if this is right?

    No, that is not right. Where did you read this?
  • Unknown
    [quote author=Iqbal link=board=1;threadid=4100;start=0#msg57339 date=1152184340]
    No, that is not right. Where did you read this?


    "At the beginning of the twentieth century, the question of the canon was discussed again in the Coptic Church, and by order of Cyril V, the 112th patriarch, the following books were removed from the canon: Tobit, Judith, the Complement of Esther, the Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, the Epistle of Jeremiah, Baruch, the Complement of Daniel (Susanna and the three youths in the fire), and the Books of Maccabees. No changes, however, were made regarding the New Testament canon. In 1928, Habib Girgis published his Catechism for Youth, which lists the following Old Testament books as canonical: the Pentateuch, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I and II Samuel, I and II Kings, I and II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, and the four major and twelve minor Prophets."


    The above is the 3 paragraph on p. 41 of Two Thousand Years of Coptic Christianity, by Otto F.A. Meinardus.

    It puzzled me when I read it as I had always thought the Coptic Church held the complete canon of the LXX.

    The same thing is supposedly mentioned in the Coptic Encyclopedia vol. 1, p.161 - but I do not have this book and so cannot verify this.
  • Unknown
    Orthodox11,

    I cannot speak for what happened under the reign of Pope St. Cyril V, simply because I admittedly have not heard of the idea that he removed the deutero-canonicals from the canon of the Scriptures. I will look into that for you. Nevertheless, I can speak regarding the Church's present position:

    The following quotations are taken from Dr. George Girgis' article The Old Testament Apocrypha which was printed in the official magazine of the Southern U.S. diocese lead under His Grace Bishop Youssef, Mighty Arrows (June, 2002 edition):

    "In 1955, [the Deuterocanonical books in question] were printed in the Arabic language and published by The Coptic Orthodox Church of The Virgin Lady of Moharram Bey in Alexandria (Egypt) under the title The Second Canonized Scriptures. The same church reprinted them in 1975. During certain Coptic Orthodox Liturgical rites, there are many readings to be read from the Books of Wisdom of Solomon, Wisdom of Jesus The Son of Sirach and Completion of Book of Daniel, and that during the Holy Great Fast Period and Passover Week till the Night of Glorious Resurrection Day. All the Book of Tobit is found in the Katamerous, in Arabic language...This Book is read on Friday of the sixth week of the Holy Great Fast.

    In addition, the completion of the book of Daniel, plus the additional Davidic Psalm are read on Apocolypse Saturday.
  • deaddogdeaddog
    -The OT canon was closed aroun 300-200 B.C, this was the septugient, which contains the books that are called "second canonical", I'm sure you know the list.
    -The NT Canon for the Western church (mainly RC) was closed in Trent 15cent.
    -The NT Canon for the eastern was never closed by a council, and it will never be closed. The understanding is that the canon lives within the church, the church decides on the Canon. But in effect the canon was closed once St. Athanasius spoke in his 39 feastell letter which lists the books, his list matches Origen's list which was developed earlier.
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