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seven orders?

basketballbasketball
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
hey everyone....well i was doing tasbeha yesterday with all my friends and then in the sunday theotokia where it says:they likekend the golden Candlestand, to the church,and the seven lamps,to its seven orders.

heres my question what are the seven orders?does it mean the seven sacrememnts of the church?or something else?

please let me know....

mary

Comments

  • shnodashnoda
    hi my friend,
    i think the seven orders refer to the seven archangels: Micheal,Gabriel,Raphael,Souriel,Sedakiel,Sarathiel and Ananiel.
    i am sure u know them well. ;) ;D
  • shnodashnoda
    sorry basketball,i think my first answer is wrong.i asked my friends and from reading the whole verse we think it means the seven sacrememnts of the church.just as you said.i was wrong.... :-[
    sure 9 minds is better than one.
    and plz if any one has any other explanation ,send it.i might be wrong again... ;)
  • Unknown
    I believe it is in fact "the seven orders of the Church of God" that we pray for in one of the seven litanies i.e. the hegomens, priests, deacons, sub-deacons etc.
  • shnodashnoda
    i thought so Iqbal,but after reading the whole verse from the epsalmody i think it is closer to be the seven sacrememnts of the church.any way as i am not sure from what i said and it is just what i think,so i will try to search the book of HG Mettaos about tasbeha.sure this will be mentioned in it.
    also HG Rafael was writing about tasbeha in the keraza.i ca`t find it now but i will look for it too.
  • spr418spr418
    [quote author=shnoda link=board=4;threadid=4069;start=0#msg56965 date=1151512049]
    hi my friend,
    i think the seven orders refer to the seven archangels: Micheal,Gabriel,Raphael,Souriel,Sedakiel,Sarathiel and Ananiel.
    i am sure u know them well. ;) ;D


    actually this is right becuase if you check it in arabic its says" shabeho el manara el zahabeya belkaneesa wa sorogha el sab3a bel saba3 taghamat" i hope thats right tho..but if its wrong please correct me!

    GBU
    sandra
  • Kristina123Kristina123
    yeah i think, well quite sure, the seven orders refer to the angels and not deacons priests etc. as is stated in the above quote from shnoda.

    sorry Iqbal you might be wrong on this one!!!

    i heard that from Abouna today actually. what a coincidence!!! (by the way we were doing a bible study of the book of revelations)

    Kristina
  • nardinnardin
    [quote author=Kristina123 link=board=4;threadid=4069;start=0#msg57074 date=1151756967]
    yeah i think the seven orders refer to the angels and not deacons priests etc. so i agree with Shnoda. sorry Iqbal you might be wrong on this one!!!

    i heard that from Abouna today actually what a coincidence!!! (by the way we were doing a bible study of the book of revelations)

    Kristina

    lol yes Kristina123 is right... how good was the talk? it really helped u understand revelations it was awesome!
  • whywhy
    when was this and why didnt i know??
  • shnodashnoda
    i am still not sure guys,i have no reference but i am searching and hope i can get anyone soon.
  • Unknown
    The fact the term ntaghamat may be used in reference to the Archangels (as it is used in the hitens for example), does not necessitate that everytime the word is used that it is a reference to the orders of the Archangels. The term simply denotes ranks or orders per se; it does not have any attached exclusive connotations with respect to the subject of the orders/ranks.

    It must be emphasised, that Angels themselves are not orders. The term ntaghamat when used in reference to angels, refers to the orders of Angels, and not Angels as orders. In this particular Theotokia, it expressly refers to the Church (ekklesia) in reference to the orders/ranks. Archangels do not constitute an order of the Church.

    Furthermore, the Sacraments interpretation makes no sense, because the Seven sacraments are not seven orders/ranks of sacraments. Furthermore, the idea that there are seven sacraments is a relatively late idea promoted by western Christianity. The early Church generally viewed anything that dispenses the Grace of God as a sacrament. Thus in addition to those we now consider "the seven sacraments", holy water is a sacrament, icons are sacraments, the relics of Holy Saints are sacraments. The Church never really confined the number of sacraments to a nice round number.

    Furthermore, the exact same phrase i.e. "shashf entaghma ente-ekklesia" (the seven orders of the Church) is used in a praise to the Virgin from the Wednesday theotokia in a context that emphasises that it is referring to clergical ranks:

    "And the Children of this Church, The leaders and the flock, “shashf entaghma ente-ekeklessia” “bi-ooay enni ekhrisstanius”

  • nardinnardin
    im telling u Iqbal in pre-servants... Abouna Matthew (you prob know him) took us step by step through the whole of revelation except the last 3 or so chapters and when it got up to the 7 orders he said it is the 7 archangels.... u can go ask him if u like.


    +FROG+
  • Unknown
    FROG,

    You are not listening to me. We are not talking about the book of Revelations; we are talking about a particular Theotokia. This theotokia speaks about orders of the Church, not the heavenly orders. The term "orders" can be used in two different contexts. In the theotokia in question, it refers to the orders of the ekklesia, not the orders of the heavens.
  • nardinnardin
    o my gush oops im so sorry forgive me

    +FROG+
  • Kristina123Kristina123
    Ok fine.

    well can you please name the seven orders.

    Kristina123
  • basketballbasketball
    so are the seven orders the seven archangels??

    mary
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    No. In this specific case, it refers to the seven orders of the Church.
  • basketballbasketball
    then can somone explain to me the seven oreders of the church?
  • estephanos111estephanos111
    I think it is

    Hegomens, preists, archdeacons, deacns, subdeacons, aghnostos, psaltos.
  • basketballbasketball
    k...welll can anyone explain how they are the seven orders or how did they become the seven orderes?????

    mary
  • whywhy
    the seven orders are those of "LEVELS" that the "deacons proceed" they start of by apsaltos which are newly ordained deacons and they move up levels according both to their knowledge of hymns, knowing Coptic, age and level in the church community (alot of this influence these descisions) and then they can reach to become a priest (elected by the community of course) then can be 'promoted' to become a hegomen (a higher/hieghest rank or proesthood) who the abouna in my church is!!
  • Unknown
    From Fr. Athanasius Iskander's Understanding the Liturgy:

    We next pray for the pope, the bishops, the hegoumens, the priests and the deacons, the subdeacons and the seven orders of the Church of God.

    The word hegoumen originally meant the head of a monastic community (an abbot). It is used in the Liturgy to describe Abba John the hegoumen and Abba Daniel the hegoumen, both of which were heads of monastic communities. It is currently used to describe the senior priest in a church.

    Deacons and subdeacons are among the higher orders of the Church. The seven minor orders of the Church include the readers (anagnosts), the singers (psalts), the exorcists, the monks, the virgins, the widows and the door keepers.

    Exorcists were used in the early Church to prepare catechumens for Baptism. Since catechumens were idol worshippers, the Church deemed them in need of a lengthy service of exorcism on the night preceding their Baptism.

    Virgins and widows were two orders in the early Church with specific duties (1Tim 5:9, 1Cor 7:25).

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