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Death Penalty

MaramiroMaramiro
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Hi, my name is Mariam, and for a while now i have been wondering about the death penalty. Is it wrong or right? In our church we learn in the Ten Commandments, thou shall not kill. But many people are on death row in the United States and many have already been executed. So is it wrong to punish someone who has killed another? ???
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Comments

  • Unknown
    Hi
    I don't really know if I can answer your question, but I know that it's probably wrong for our church, because you are killing another person. My position toward death penalty is that no one should ever kill somebody for anything no matter what, because I believe that God is the one who judge not us. For an alternative I thought that maybe they could do life in prison and that way they wouldn't kill somebody, and the one who killed will get his punishement. I don't know if that helped or not, I just thought to share my oponion in this subject.
    Thank you
  • karfawkarfaw
    Hi Mariam,

    I will explain you my point of view. It is not wrong to have the death penalty and on the contrary it is even necessary to have it for people safety. Because there are 3 kinds of people :
    1) The ones who fear God and these people will not kill.
    2) The ones who do not fear God but they may fear the punishment in that case the punishment will stop them from killing.
    3) The ones who neither fear God nor the punishment, in that case their death will let other people see that if they kill they will be executed so they will not kill.

    Also, the Bible teaches us not to kill but it did not teach us not to execute which is totally different.

    Also Jesus said to Peter when he cut the ear of the soldier coming to catch him : "Whoever kills by the sword will be killed by the sword".

    The only problem in executing somebody and which let many countries abolish the death penalty is that they discovered in some cases, many years later, that the person who was executed was innocent. That is the only problem which has to be treated very carefully by the judge and the jury because in that case they are responsible in front of God if this happens. That's why, they should never order the execution unless the person is 100% guilty and not 99.9999% .

    I hope I answered your question.

    Pray for me.

    KF
  • habouzyhabouzy

    In many events written in the Bible ( Old testament ) we see God commanding people who make sin to death .
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    i personally think its wrong as jesus told us "Do not judge others, and you will not be judged"
    i guess this is judging someone and ofcoarse there will be times when an innocent will be condemnd to death. i c it as taking up the role of God. just as cloning may be wrong, or abortion, or euthinasia, they all try and play God.
    in the end lets just pray that Gods will be done on Earth and that he will make things such as this topic known to us.
    may God open our hearts, minds and understanding.
    plz pray 4 me
    George
    btw welcome to the website im george, i hope u get alot out of it as i have :)
  • DrFMFIssaDrFMFIssa
    I think this verse ("Do not judge others, and you will not be judged") is missquoted a lot. As I see it you do not judge the person but their actions in accordance to the laws of society. I believe that the death penalty should be reserved for the most serious crimes.
  • Mark423Mark423
    I agree with DrFMFIssa, if somebody has committed serious crimes and is evidently a menace to society this person needs to be punished. To touch on what Karfaw said, if this menace to society commits a serious act and isn’t punished for it, others will think that there are no repercussions for their actions, executing them not only gets rid of a problem, but potentially prevents other problems from taking place. I could also argue reasons why I disagree with the death penalty, and to be honest I can’t come to a decision, but I think I lean more towards being supportive of it.
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    he can be confined in jail, he doesnt have to die...
  • Mark423Mark423
    Yes, he CAN be confined. However what does that do? If one kills somebody and knows that their own life won’t be taken, they might be quick to commit that crime. On the other hand if they know that their life might be taken in return they would surely think over every step a second and third time before making any rash decisions. Justice must be served in the event the life of an innocent person is taken. Our god tells us this.

    Deuteronomy 19: 11-13

    "But if anyone hates his neighbor, lies in wait for him, rises against him and strikes him mortally, so that he dies, and he flees to one of these cities, then the elders of his city shall send and bring him from there, and deliver him over to the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Your eye shall not pity him, but you shall put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with you.”

    The cities they refer to are cities where people who had accidentally killed a person could flee to and leave all their possessions behind including their wife and children. If someone intentionally killed somebody and went to one of these cites, it was seen as a great sin. I would highly suggest reading all of Deuteronomy 19, it explains any questions you may have about the cities and it’s extremely, cool, for lack of a better word.

    -Mark
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    that quote is from the old testement
    jesus changed this kinda stuff
    answer me this, what if some one was framed, or was judged wrongly, then what, just kill the innocent...
    put urself in that sittuation, who can say wat deserves death and wat doesnt, other than God
    George
  • Mark423Mark423
    Yes the quote is in the Old Testament, do you plan on negating everything written in the Old Testament? It all still applies, I am sure this hasn’t changed, I consulted somebody about it just a few hours ago and he is quite knowledgeable.
    I agree with you that somebody could have been framed, yet that is quite far fetched. Regardless, that is why there are extensive and fair trials that can be appealed and retried several times. The chance of that happening is miniscule anyway and evidence doesn’t lie. If there isn’t enough evidence to PROVE somebody wrong then the person is deemed innocent. If there is just a slight amount of probable cause then the verdict is innocence. I don’t like questioning the “what ifs” it clearly states that if one is guilty of murder that their blood shall be taken in return.
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    whos to say wat is fair
    mark, my froend, my brother, answerme this, is it possible that an innocent be condemned to the death sentence?
    it is possible??
  • Mark423Mark423
    Very possible, and it has happened, there have been several cases of it. But answer me this. Would you rather a menace who has killed and could kill again possibly be given the opportunity to set free to kill again? To shed more innocent blood? The sniper for example who killed several random people just getting gas, just walking in the street. Had your mother, your wife, your brother, your daughter been one of those people whose lives were taken in an instant for absolutely no reason, would you not want justice served?
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    i believe that if theres a chance, it shouldnt be done...
    anywaz may God help with this question, and make it clear b4 us
    mate ur gr8 to debate with, but i feel that were both to stubborn to change our minds...
    ill ask a priest and u ask a priest and we'll get bak to each other on that
    Kool?
    George
    may God give us guidance
  • Mark423Mark423
    Haha, I think on the point of our stubbornness, I definitely agree with you. I also agree that if there is probable cause, that the persons life shouldn’t be taken. However if there is evidence the person did in fact commit the crime, I think they should be executed.
    The person who I asked was just as credible as a priest and comes from a family of priests; he also has been nominated my many to be ordained one. Regardless, I shall ask my father of confession and I’ll return with his view on the topic.
    God Bless You
    -Mark
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    heres a twist, wat if the person truley repented after the crime???
    only God would know that, if God forgives and forgets, why cant we? because were not God, and we cant look into that persons heart, so therefore we shouldnt make the descision!
    ooo yah
    thats 10 points 2 me
    George
  • karfawkarfaw
    Hi G.J.I.,

    When a person commits a crime this is a double sin and then he is subject to 2 punishments :
    - An earthly punishment with respect to the society, and
    - An eternal punishment with respect to God.

    The fact that the person repents before being executed does not vanish the earthly punishment but the eternal one. Before execution, most of the condemned repent, confess and take communion and then go to the execution.

    Even if someone commits a crime and confess, his Father of confession should advise him to deliver himself to the police.

    Also the right thief on the Cross, Jesus did not deliver him from the Cross when he told Him : "Remember me O Lord when you come in Your Kingdom". But He delivered him from the Eternel hell and promised him to be with Him in Paradise.

    I hope I answered your question.

    Pray for me.

    KF
  • Mark423Mark423
    Whoa karfaw, excellent response.
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    Yes, truly great points KF. :)
  • karfawkarfaw
    Thank you Mark423 and Banoub.

    Pray for me.

    KF
  • PrincessMaryPrincessMary
    "1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake." ROMANS 13:1-5

    I think that if someone does something wrong they should be punished accordingly..but because an innocent person might be executed..id rather they just have life in prison..., but if 100% sure that the person is guilty and deserves execution then they should be executed. If everyone got away with murder...or whatever they did deserving death..then there would be no one to govern us, everyone will do what they want..if there are no authorities..when we see someone being executed for killing someone, we will have an example infront of us..so we see the consequences of evil actions. ...
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    princess what can i say,
    u got me agian ;)
    Good stuff
    George
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    Also guys, Jesus also gave us a command in the Sermon on the Mountain:

    21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not murder,[1] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause[2] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, "Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, "You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
    (Matthew 5:21-26)

    Pray 4 me!

    Defender!
  • sleepymusiciansleepymusician
    So the death sentence is permitted in our religion?
    Because if they had time to repent, couldn't they end up going good again? I mean, yea, they were wrong in commiting the crimes, but we all make mistakes. Look at St. Moses the Black, or St. Mary, the egyptian. They were bad but god gave them time to turn good, and now they're great saints. Can't that be applied to our lifestyle?


    sleepy
  • Coptic_AvengerCoptic_Avenger
    u know i thinkthat the first time you do a crime any crime then commit murder, then u get the death penalty, but if you dont commit a crime first but just start out with murder then they give you a really really long prison sentence. wat i'm trying to say is, the law gives u a chance to repent and then if u do it again, they kill u.
  • sleepymusiciansleepymusician
    It all depends on how you defend yourself. If you have a good lawyer, they could get you out of trouble. If you have a bad lawyer, regardless if it's your first or tenth crime, you'll get the death sentence.


    sleepy
  • Michael_ThomaMichael_Thoma
    Personally, I find the death penalty cruel and abhorrent. In my opinion, it may be possible for other countries to say they cannot afford life sentencing, but the U.S. surely has no excuse. And as we can see by how many people have been wrongly convicted and released after DNA testing came out, the death penalty is unreliable. In the past it has been mis-used on African-Americans, and minorites. When we have people locked up for years on petty crimes like drug possession we cannot claim there is no room in jails. There is plenty of room, just make sure the right people go in, not some innocent man sent to jail because some prosecutor wants a promotion.
  • Mark423Mark423
    Karfaw has explained this. They may repent and become good people that lead righteous lives and are forgiven by god, yet this doesn’t exempt them from the punishment they receive on earth.

    [quote author=karfaw link=board=4;threadid=141;start=15#msg902 date=1082925635]
    Hi G.J.I.,

    When a person commits a crime this is a double sin and then he is subject to 2 punishments :
    - An earthly punishment with respect to the society, and
    - An eternal punishment with respect to God.

    The fact that the person repents before being executed does not vanish the earthly punishment but the eternal one. Before execution, most of the condemned repent, confess and take communion and then go to the execution.

    Even if someone commits a crime and confess, his Father of confession should advise him to deliver himself to the police.

    Also the right thief on the Cross, Jesus did not deliver him from the Cross when he told Him : "Remember me O Lord when you come in Your Kingdom". But He delivered him from the Eternel hell and promised him to be with Him in Paradise.

    I hope I answered your question.

    Pray for me.

    KF
  • Michael_ThomaMichael_Thoma
    What about the fact that so many people hav ebeen WRONGLY convicted. 13 men released in my state, Illinois alone. Thats only since 1967, imagine all the innocent men sent to death in OUR NAMES, not in my name. I am against it totally. I don't want anyones blood on my hands.
  • sleepymusiciansleepymusician
    That's a point
  • Mark423Mark423
    [quote author=Mark423 link=board=4;threadid=141;start=0#msg884 date=1082782340]

    ... that is why there are extensive and fair trials that can be appealed and retried several times. The chance of that happening is miniscule anyway and evidence doesn’t lie. If there isn’t enough evidence to PROVE somebody wrong then the person is deemed innocent. If there is just a slight amount of probable cause then the verdict is innocence. I don’t like questioning the “what ifs” it clearly states that if one is guilty of murder that their blood shall be taken in return.



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