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Regarding Egyptian Mentality & Success
I am struggling to understand in our egyptian culture why its not so favorable or successful to be anything but like a doctor, lawyer, engineer, pharmacist? I don't understand that...I mean I know they are lucrative careers but other careers are just as important and its disappointing that you are not really regarded successful or a "great catch" to marry if your not in those fields. I am a social worker and when I tell other egyptians they have this look like "oh..okay" I am proud of what I do and love it and wouldn't trade it for any other career. Its just very frustrating or disappointing that people don't see these other careers as successful or something to be proud of....Hopefully this attitude changes in our future generations and its not like a FOB mentality only..
I mean one incident I remember was a friend of mine was telling another friend how great of a catch her fiance is bc he works as a doctor. Its kind of disappointing to those who are teachers, firefighters, cops, psychologists, or any other social service field... That we are not considered successful bc our paychecks are not as big as those in the medicine or engineering fields...It would be nice to know that there are some egyptians in the social service (cops, teachers, firefighers, etc..)fields and happy in them... So please feel free to give me your feedback and opinions..and maybe some of your interesting careers that break from the norm of our egyptian culture! God bless all! :)
I mean one incident I remember was a friend of mine was telling another friend how great of a catch her fiance is bc he works as a doctor. Its kind of disappointing to those who are teachers, firefighters, cops, psychologists, or any other social service field... That we are not considered successful bc our paychecks are not as big as those in the medicine or engineering fields...It would be nice to know that there are some egyptians in the social service (cops, teachers, firefighers, etc..)fields and happy in them... So please feel free to give me your feedback and opinions..and maybe some of your interesting careers that break from the norm of our egyptian culture! God bless all! :)
Comments
I am struggling to understand in our egyptian culture why its not so favorable or successful to be anything but like a doctor, lawyer, engineer, pharmacist? I don't understand that...I mean I know they are lucrative careers but other careers are just as important and its disappointing that you are not really regarded successful or a "great catch" to marry if your not in those fields. I am a social worker and when I tell other egyptians they have this look like "oh..okay" I am proud of what I do and love it and wouldn't trade it for any other career. Its just very frustrating or disappointing that people don't see these other careers as successful or something to be proud of....Hopefully this attitude changes in our future generations and its not like a FOB mentality only..
I mean one incident I remember was a friend of mine was telling another friend how great of a catch her fiance is bc he works as a doctor. Its kind of disappointing to those who are teachers, firefighters, cops, psychologists, or any other social service field... That we are not considered successful bc our paychecks are not as big as those in the medicine or engineering fields...It would be nice to know that there are some egyptians in the social service (cops, teachers, firefighers, etc..)fields and happy in them... So please feel free to give me your feedback and opinions..and maybe some of your interesting careers that break from the norm of our egyptian culture! God bless all! :)
I think that it may go back to the paychecks. Because so many people in Egypt are poor, especially Copts sadly, Egyptian immigrants to other countries (the USA for example) rejoice when they see their people(other Copts) with prestigus(sorry if spelled wrong) jobs that they may have been deprived of due to whatever the reason, because of lack of money, religious discrimination, etc.
Also for those adults living in america, it may be because they had to work so hard when they came to earn a living that they rejoice when they see making money come easier to their children.
I personally think that it is better to be happy with your job and be poor than to be miserable at work and be rich. I also think that poverty is nothing to be ashamed of. Yes when you have money, life is easier, but living in poverty, from what I've seen, takes your mind off the vain glories of the world just a little bit more, and it tends to make people more thankful for their families and what they have.
i too feel strongly about this topic and have therefore replied.
the one thing i hate about the egyptian culture is that they think that because of study or position within society that you are assumed to be a better person than others not in the same position. when i went to egypt i noticed this on a far greater scale than where i currently reside. for example more respect is shown and also more importance is given to such people.
i feel that this is due to ignorance and also a lack of respect toward others, so if u come across one of these people who feel the need to differentiate based on study etc, all i can say is steer clear!! these people are obviously lacking in more ways than one.
i dont beleive that this behaviour shud be associated or attributed to religion in any way cause as we all know that our religion teaches us otherwise.
if you truly enjoy what you do or study then you have gained success and should not let any one get to you about this issue.
to me when i see someone act in this way i lose all respect for them, im sure i aint the only one.
Kristina123
But maybe they were great teachers
I don’t think its wrong to want to know what a person does; it’s a good conversation starter. But it irritates me when they start treating someone extra special once they find out that they have a prestigious degree.
A degree or a fancy job title won’t get you into heaven, but its what you do with your job and your degree that matters. Do what you are passionate about and excel in it and I’m sure God will bless your path.
In His Name
I have to laugh here, because everyone (including me) seem to agree on one fundamental, and that is Egyptians with traditional kind of thinking have the tendency to be prejudice (for good or bad) about the different career choices. I've had a discussion lately with a member of my family who is a reasonably open minded person about why Copts in Egypt discourage giving their daughter in marriage to Coptic men (I’m yet to see Coptic policewomen in Egypt ;D). The answer, although almost always predictable, was of a little surprise to me; so, in presenting this recollection (which I am about to present), I ask you to genuinely try and see their perspective (you don't have to agree because I still don't):...
The answer to the question came in the form of another question. "What do you value in a job?"
I typically replied "Something that you would enjoy, and like to do"
"Go no..."
"But I guess you still wouldn't do it for free, the pay has to be reasonable."
"Policing doesn't pay well, {it pays terribly in Egypt}, what about the risks?"
"What about them?! Every job has risks."
"You risk your life and for what?"
"Every Job has risks, besides, it interests you."
"Not like in policing."
Now, it doesn't seem like much of an insight, but from knowing the person, there were other connotations, for example:
- A Job is just a job for the money, you get a reasonable job to lead a good life.
- Stability in your life (and in you’re family's) is more important than interests.
- This world is not so important, it's the next one that counts, so career interests are somewhat trivial.
In summary, the most important things career wise, are stability, good income to support family and better job opportunities (white collar jobs are in more demand!) By the way, that person didn't believe that social work or teaching were any less in status.During my study for my Higher School Certificate (highest level of secondary education in Australia), I learned of other reasons for their perceiving of medicine, law and engineering to be ideal choices. These careers are relatively difficult to get into; you need to really persevere in your secondary studies to get marks that will allow you to get into these courses. So why is working hard at school a way to measure a person? The answer is simply that it reflects on their attitude to study which inturn reflects of their personality, which is (undeniably) a good measure of fervence in their spiritual life! Fact or fiction? My personal experience supports their claim. I honestly wish they were not related, but it is true 9 times out of 10 "The Lord was with Joseph, and he was a successful man" (Gen 39:2).
Proud or not, arrogant or not, Copts born in Egypt were raised in a society where class was evident, how that affected people's mentality depended on their family and upbringing. Most overseas born Copts don't believe in class, as evident on church.
In the end, it's up to you to think whatever you like of Copts who believe so, but what you should certainly do, is respect them for what they have endured in Egypt. No culture is as caring about family and upbringing like Copts, and no culture is perfect either.
God bless them,
His son
Therefore, I encourage people to do what they love and God will bless them. One thing I admire about the American culture is they respect all careers and think various careers are needed, which is true. And usually the people who say that this position has such a low salary blah blah...Don't really know too much about the career or the pay increases. I know some careers start off with low salaries but they also increase in pay annually. Life isn't about money and as Christians we should know that what is it for a man to lose his soul but profit the world? Meaning what is it all worth if I spend all this time studying and years working hard to be rich and successful but I forget God along the way bc I am too busy for him? God bless all!
So why is working hard at school a way to measure a person? The answer is simply that it reflects on their attitude to study which inturn reflects of their personality, which is (undeniably) a good measure of fervence in their spiritual life!
????? interesting point u have raised altho not always the case. an individual's attitude to study does not neccessarlity reflect their personality.
I personally believe that it isn't always the case that working hard at school makes you a good person, but I was merely presenting a point of view that has been proven through living examples.
If you are willing to study hard for the next 4-5 years for a career in Law, engendering, medicine, or whatever for that matter, then you are prepared to study, otherwise, you are not really informed of your career choice!
It's really hard to describe how hard it to work in some careers compared to others; that's why I don't like the comparison, I believe that all are equal in the eyes of God, because he measures the heart, not the bachelor or diploma. I am merely pointing at a trend with those careers.
In any case, I wouldn't be considered so, because I'm not doing Law, Engineering or Medicine :o:o:o, besides, engendering is being discouraged her in Australia because it's hard to find a Job.
They’ve got a valid point! But, so do people who lead good lives in the Lord, doing other things! I respect them for that.
they push their children to study i think they like bragging to their friends about how smart their children are
but then again, who does not? I personally know thati am not going to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer or any of the other fancy job their is out there
hope i helped
EgY
Be courageous and be strong. Think at a higher level and show that you are confident in your own happiness. Do not let this culture affect who you truly are inside. Yes it may seem like a pressure or a cross, but the wise person knows their true purpose in life. And this purpose is to praise your God in all that you do, in any career that you pursue or belong to. Because no matter what or who you are, you will always have two results: Paradise or hades. Heaven or hell.
Be the person that has the better wisdom of giving all glory to their maker, and looks at the acception of an eternal kingdom of happiness.
First of all, let me tell you I have lived in Egypt till I became a doctor and left it and came over to the UK, so I got the best of the two worlds if you like. That is just an introductory bit to assure you that I understand your points clearly.
Dear Joyful4eva: ignore every body in Egypt. Believe me if I tell you, your English is fantastic. Trust me, only 10-20% of those highly regarded graduates can speak as well as you do. I got the impression you were born in an English-speaking country. Correct me if I am wrong.
Dear vassilios: you seem to be Egyptian by birth (or another Arab country), but you don't know Egypt that well. No, it is not only about marriage, and medicine, engineering, and so on are not being the well-paid jobs that anyone is dreaming of. Maybe pharmacy to some extent.
Dear kiristina123, I agree completely with what you said. You seem to know a lot about it, and not dearly affected unlike joyful4eva.
Let me tell you the explanation from my point of view: Egyptian are not proud, they are not vain: they are just poor and ignorant. Like most of the members said, because of these two reasons parents and in-laws try to brag about the "big catches" as brides and grooms, regardless of spirituality, love, ...etc. This stems from being Muslimised in many ways. As Muslims are too conservative, Egyptians in general (including the Coptic) are not thinking about LOVE, or SPIRITUALITY (maybe second or third places), but in the first place "money, money, money". They are money-maniacs in a way. Even those who get married at a later age, are still dependent on their families, and those who live celebate lives (not by any means pointing to monks or nuns, as I don't really think this applies to them), just can't afford, and can't get help off others.
Egyptians are not rigorous either: they are just dumb as vassilios said. Look at those who score the highest, or come first in class (me being one of these): they only learn anything by heart, without giving their brains the flick to think about anything. Well, yes, many succeed outside Egypt, but just because they avail of the chance (which does exist), but not because the Egyptian is the smartest guy on earth, and such vain mottos which come from again poverty and ignorance.
Well, I might be opposed to the way the Egyptians work and live, but trust me, I have lived there 27 years, and I know it all.
God bless you all and mention me in your prayers
Nonetheless, no need to worry because such is a large generality. And I mean large. Of course many of our brethren appreciate the efforts of any successful individual. The cultural bend towards doctors, lawyers, and engineers is merely because again, back at our wonderful motherland, those three careers are essentially the only ones almost guaranteed a job while others are rather unstable in a small nation. In America, an interior designer's efforts can be mind blowing but in a third world country such as Egypt, no one really cares. There's also the fact that other careers are largely unpopular and even unavailable in Egyptian universities. Not to mention that your GPA limits your choices of majors there. So you must excuse the conditions in which these ideas become conceived.
I have spent about eight years of my glorious life in Egypt yet I'd rather contract bubonic plague than possess either of the aforementioned occupations held dearly by our Egyptian companions :D (jokes) So do what your heart desires, lad. Just make sure you do something you have a passion for and that will make even the slightest impact on the depraved world we live in now. And don't worry about what praise you may get; all that matters is personal and spiritual fulfillment. I've seen far too many lived ruined by a pursuit of glory-seeking careers rather than personally fulfilling careers.
I defnitley know what you are talking about:
I come from a family were my father is a Physical Therapist, one of my uncles is a Doctor, and then 2 of the others are engineers. To add to that I have two cousins in Pharmacy, and the other is going into Physical Therapy.
That was my problem, I wanted to be a pilot, and ofcourse my family didn't like that idea, and I remember distinctively a talk my engineer uncle gave me: "he said, dont go into those other careers, stick with medicine, pharmacy, physical therapy, and engineering"...and I remember just thanking him for his advice but not paying to much attention to it, b/c honeslty i saw aviation as a beautiful job, it makes good pay and its very distinctive.
So what ended up happening was I had to put that on the side, for Medicine, and don't get me wrong I love the career, and I guess I might be better suited to be a doctor, but ya, I defnitley understand that Egyptian Mentality.
Yes, that is true to a great extent.
God bless you and mention me in your prayers