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Judgement day
hello,
i asked this question under a different topic, but i got no answers just yet, so i'm making a new topic for it cause i'm soooo confused bout this.
ok, first lemme lay down some facts first that abouna disscussed at a bible study before:
1. Once a person dies, he/she knows where they are going.... heaven or hell. if they are going to heaven, angels come and take them to the third heaven and they see Jesus, st. Mary, etc... but they don't see the "seventh heaven" and the place that no eye has seen or an ear has heard... if they are going to hell, they go to hell right away, and they will be thron into the fire right away. I have two stories that i can share that would pove the two directions if you like
2. In the second coming, we all will take a new body. The ppl that are going to heaven, they take a body that will bare the glory of god. and the ppl that are going to hell, they take a body that will not vanish from a couple of hours in the burning fire. I also have two stories that would prove this...
NOW, if everyone knows where they are going, whats the point of judgement day then?? in the bible, it says, that god will judge every one based on their actions/deeds, but we already know where we are going once we die??
when do we take this new body??? it looks as though we take it right away, but that doesn't go with what the bible says???
maybe for the ppl that will be living during the second coming, as abouna says, they will experience death, and resurrection all the same moment, so then they will take the new body??
i'm sooooo confused about this!!!
any help would be nice plz
thanks
i asked this question under a different topic, but i got no answers just yet, so i'm making a new topic for it cause i'm soooo confused bout this.
ok, first lemme lay down some facts first that abouna disscussed at a bible study before:
1. Once a person dies, he/she knows where they are going.... heaven or hell. if they are going to heaven, angels come and take them to the third heaven and they see Jesus, st. Mary, etc... but they don't see the "seventh heaven" and the place that no eye has seen or an ear has heard... if they are going to hell, they go to hell right away, and they will be thron into the fire right away. I have two stories that i can share that would pove the two directions if you like
2. In the second coming, we all will take a new body. The ppl that are going to heaven, they take a body that will bare the glory of god. and the ppl that are going to hell, they take a body that will not vanish from a couple of hours in the burning fire. I also have two stories that would prove this...
NOW, if everyone knows where they are going, whats the point of judgement day then?? in the bible, it says, that god will judge every one based on their actions/deeds, but we already know where we are going once we die??
when do we take this new body??? it looks as though we take it right away, but that doesn't go with what the bible says???
maybe for the ppl that will be living during the second coming, as abouna says, they will experience death, and resurrection all the same moment, so then they will take the new body??
i'm sooooo confused about this!!!
any help would be nice plz
thanks
Comments
when do we take this new body??? it looks as though we take it right away, but that doesn't go with what the bible says???
First of all, we do not take a completely new body. It is our existing body that is transfigured and sanctified.
This happens at the resurrection, when Christ returns.
For some saints, such as the blessed Theotokos, whose body was assumed into heaven, this has already happened; but the rest of us have to wait until the Last Days. I think St. Paul says that those who are alive when the Lord returns will 'waiti' until after the resurrection of those who have already died.
But these people will also be transfigured in the same manner.
still that doesn't answer my 2 questions??
pleaseeeeeeeee
I have two stories that i can share that would pove the two directions if you like.......
Well........ We are all ears! Out with the 2 stories mr. engineer working .................................... and stuff..!!
[quote author=AnbaBola link=board=1;threadid=4730;start=0#msg64471 date=1165412348]
NOW, if everyone knows where they are going, whats the point of judgement day then?? in the bible, it says, that god will judge every one based on their actions/deeds, but we already know where we are going once we die??
I am sure you know the story of the Pheresi and el 3ashar!
People can be evil all of their lives and say "I AM GOING TO HEAVEN, I HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG!", on the other hand, Somepeople migh say "I AM A SINNER, I AM GOING TO ROT IN HELL" however they maybe not that bad of a person.
So if we went to where we think we are going, then why would GOD come and save us and have a day of Judgement to jude the living and the dead???
See my point? ( any-one can feel free to correct me, I won't hunt you down and kill you!)
[quote author=AnbaBola link=board=1;threadid=4730;start=0#msg64471 date=1165412348]
when do we take this new body??? it looks as though we take it right away, but that doesn't go with what the bible says???
What does the bible say? ( I apologize, due to my lack of faith and how big of a sinner I am)
pray for me,
bentBABAyasooa`
any takes???
pleaseeeeeeeee
$5?
$10........??
$100??? ala ona, ala dos, ala tres! DING DING DING!!!
a3woooo ha? ( now we are even!) :P
NOW we are even :D
well... my point is, at the instant the person dies, he/she know where they are going, heaven or hell... I'm not asking about how they lived on earth and where they think they are going to.
i'll take this money and buy you haga with real antennas :P :P
NOW we are even :D
Dang it....... I was going to buy your head and play ball with it...! or are you going to get a knife and faseha before I play?? ;) :P
NOW i can say "WE ARE OFFICIALY EVEN"
Depends...!!
[quote author=AnbaBola link=board=1;threadid=4730;start=0#msg64566 date=1165511052]
well... my point is, at the instant the person dies, he/she know where they are going, heaven or hell... I'm not asking about how they lived on earth and where they think they are going to.
How do they know? Doesn't God has to judge first before they know?
Sorry, I haven't been dead before. :P
ok... may be if i clarify with some examples, it would help since u never died before...
this story happened in egypt in the 60s. A very poor family was just a father, mother, and a young daugther lived very close to church... days go by, and the father dies, but his family has no money at all to even bury him, and not one person showed up for his funeral. The mother turns to prostitution since this was the only way in her mind to get money and to live a happy life with her daugther. again days go by, and the mother dies, but this case, everyone came to the funeral, poor and rich. and she had a pretty "nice" funeral.
after all of this is set and done, the daugther starts to wonder now at one night... how will she live, should she follow the path of her mother and have a place to be buried in, or should she turn to church and live as her father did, but her end would be like her father!!! at the end, she decieded to live like her mother and she falls asleep... then an angel comes and wakes her up and tells her come, i'll show u where your dad is. he takes her in an instant to a very beautiful place where people are singing hymns and alhan that were sooo beautiful. in the middle of all of these people, she sees her dad, so she runs at him, and huges him and she told him, dad, i want to say with you here, i don't want to go back. the dad answers back and says, no daugther, you still have time on earth, go finish it and come... then the angel asks her if she wants to see her mother, and she says yes... so he takes her by the hand, and all of a sudden she is in a dark place, smells sooo bad, and she hears screaming and yelling and crying... while the angel still holding her so she wouldn't fall down into this dark place, she sees her mother crying and weeping and the mother said, daugther, please help me, i'm suffering... the daugther tries to stretch her hand down to help her mother, and her hand got burned. then we woke up back at her bed with a burned hand that she lived with ALL her life...
Now, from this story, we see that the father went to heaven, he is happy, and praising god, but on the other hand, the mother is suffering in hell... so this says that once we die we go right away to either heaven or hell....
just a note, when i say heaven, i'm talking about the third heaven and not paradise (an eye has not seen nor an ear has heard)...
do you see my point now??
I have another story too that aom-mania iriny said about herself if you want to know this one too...
"Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Matthew 13:43
[quote author=AnbaBola link=board=1;threadid=4730;start=0#msg64565 date=1165510778]
i'll take this money and buy you haga with real antennas :P :P
NOW we are even :D
Dang it....... I was going to buy your head and play ball with it...! or are you going to get a knife and faseha before I play?? ;) :P
NOW i can say "WE ARE OFFICIALY EVEN"
not quite yet...
remember el sa3adi on the kobray saying 31 31 31... i think I make him say 32 32 32 :P
hahahahaa
Now, from this story, we see that the father went to heaven, he is happy, and praising god, but on the other hand, the mother is suffering in hell... so this says that once we die we go right away to either heaven or hell....
When we die, we experience a foretaste of heaven and hell. Those who lived their lives with Christ will feel the bliss of His presence even before they enter into it fully, which will happen on the day of the Resurrection.
Likewise, those who lived their lives apart from Christ will feel the torment of His absence even before they enter into the eternal death and suffering of gehenna.
on day fi el dar, kol el rahbat went to church in the morning and they all waited for omena irini but she didn't show up. so banatha went to her to see what was going on, and when they went in, they saw her face very burned as if she was at the beach for 10 yrs walla haga...
so, they asked her what happened to her. at first, she didn't want to say, but after they asked her non-stop, she said... she was praying, and talking to the omena that was before her (sorry, i don't know her name). and then she went to sleep. after that, she saw herself at a very big mansion and the elder omena came out and greeted her. Omena irini says about this place that it was very beautifull, alot of green grass infront of the elder omena's mansion. when omena irini looked at the next house. it was beautifull too, but she said that the grass wasn't as green. when omena irini asked the elder omena, she said because that other person wasn't as close to god (or something like that), but they don't notice it, and they all love each other. They talked for some time, and then omena irini asked the elder omena to show her christ. but the elder omena said, you can't see him with your body, you won't stand his glory... so omena irini kept on begging her, and asking her and she said just let me see him from far away, and this would be enough... so the elder omena took her by the hand, and showed her chirst from far away. Omena Irini says that she only saw light, but could see anything other than that... and when she woke up, her face was burned, and stayed burned for 2-3 month till it went back to normal.
now to continue with my questions... this story proves two points:
1. once we die, we see god in his glory, and we get our mansions that christ promised... what's gonna happen on the judgement day??
2. once we die, we will take the new transfigured body that will bear the glory of god, and will entitle us to see him, and come near to him (the elder omena took that body and she is able to see christ, but omena irini wasn't)
I wonder.... what is omena irini feeling now since she is with her Christ??? and if we go visit as she did, will she take us to see christ too or not?
pray for us all omena irini in front of His throne that he may forgive us our sins...
but any takes on my questions??
but does this mean that the ppl in hell will come out of the fire, have their lives revealed, then go back??
what about the transfigured body??
also, another question just came to mind... where will the judgement take place? is it in the third heaven? or the heaven of heavens? and where is hell?
i.e. here is abouna's explanation of the heavens:
1. first heaven: is the sky we see from earth
2. second heaven: is the galaxy (milkyway, etc... all what humans know about)
3. third heaven: is a waiting place where all the saints are right now...
4. heaven of heavens: sometimes called seventh heaven, where the thrown of God is, and what Christ promised us ... an eye has not seen, nor an ear has heard...
[quote author=AnbaBola link=board=1;threadid=4730;start=15#msg64578 date=1165518810]
now to continue with my questions... this story proves two points:
1. once we die, we see god in his glory, and we get our mansions that christ promised... what's gonna happen on the judgement day??
Anbabola, to the best of my knowledge ( and somebody can correct me if i am wrong, so i would learn what wrong ideas i have and correct it) ON judgment day, just like fe el kanon el eman says, "...... he will judge the living and the dead whose kingdom shall have no end........" I don't know how he is going to do, because again hey? i have n't been dead before, but he will judge the living and the dead and how he does and what is going to happen on judgement day is a question a person with a realy good faith and knowledge in the bible to know it, maybe you should send el Pope an email and ask him, but other than that "I guess we will never know, untill we find out ourselves"
[quote author=AnbaBola link=board=1;threadid=4730;start=15#msg64578 date=1165518810]
2. once we die, we will take the new transfigured body that will bear the glory of god, and will entitle us to see him, and come near to him (the elder omena took that body and she is able to see christ, but omena irini wasn't)
about this transfigured body, all I know about it that......... ( i have watched saints movies) when their souls rise to heaven they'd have this white dress on and their faces are shining as a sun.
[quote author=AnbaBola link=board=1;threadid=4730;start=15#msg64578 date=1165518810]
I wonder.... what is omena irini feeling now since she is with her Christ??? and if we go visit as she did, will she take us to see christ too or not?
I hope she does, because she knows what it feels like to see Christ.
[quote author=AnbaBola link=board=1;threadid=4730;start=15#msg64578 date=1165518810]
pray for us all omena irini in front of His throne that he may forgive us our sins...
ya rab.
pray for me,
will let you know what abouna say.
I highly doubt that the sinners are with adam, and the saints... because the saints are with god now, and i don't think the sinners will be with god... right? am i wrong?
boy... thinking about this makes me be ??? ???
In the same way, the righteous people go to paradise like when Our Lord Jesus was talking to the right hand thief. He didnt say today you will be with me in heaven, but today you will be with me in paradise. This paradise is the same as what your abouna is calling the "third heaven." It's probably just a different way to say the same thing. The way to look at it is there are four places that we're talking about here: Hades, Hell, Paradise (third heaven), Heaven (seventh heaven)
so with this in mind, i would say hell has the eternal fire, what about hades? does it have fire too??
where is hell and hades?? in which heaven i mean??
*** i don't think its "ta7at el ard" as what all masry parents used to teach us when we were young... "el sama we el ard tazoollan" - so no more earth!!
Hell, Hades, Paradise, and Heaven are all in different places. Where they are exactly only God knows. They aren't places you could look for or go to or find on a map. They are places God had appointed for certain functions.
I hope this helps
did u guys ever think bout how long this judgement day will take by an earthly clock????
def its not gonna be a single day :D
i would say may be years, since the angel will call on each and everyone of us starting from adam to the last one... and read his life out loud.... wow!!!
r we gonna have breaks in between every saaay 1,000,000 names???
lol, silly me...
so if we were to speculate about the place of hades, it has to be some where under us... since it says "he DESCENDED into hades"... ok good enough...
but then... on the judgement day, it will be just a matter of reciting names, and talking about what every one did on earth... but at the same time, we all know where we are going??
also, i don't think that the sinners will take the same transfigured/ shinning body as the saints... so how will the sinners stand infront of god on the judgement day?
about the body thing, I'm not exactly sure about that either. The body will be one that can feel like ours does now and it will be united with the soul but I can't give a guess as to what it would exactly look like.
about the feeling though... i read in a book about miracles that St. Mary did, and a part of one miracle talks about an abouna that died, and through the intercessions of St. Mary god granted him to come back to life to finish the church that he wanted to build for St. Mary... so he explains the feeling of the spirit leaving the body as if your taking a glove off ur hand... very simple with no pain 7`alas, but he says its very hard/painfull for the spirit to come back to the body..... i wonder why?? (that could be a big discussion on its own :D , but lets save it for later)