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Well Written English Version of the Coptic Liturgy?

Mari_RMari_R
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Does any one know of one? At my Church, the English liturgy is filled with glaring grammatical errors (one that stands out particularly in my mind is a page title which says "Rayer" instead of "Prayer"!) and inarticulate phrasing of words, which some times makes things sound ackward and not at all as beautiful as they should be.

The reason I'm asking this is that I'm primarily an English speaker, and I find it quite irksome to have to put up with such low quality writing in something that should be so eloquent. I also find that it makes it more difficult for "outsiders" to come into the Church and appriciate/understand the liturgy as fully as they possible could.

While on that matter, is there at least an English version of the liturgy that is easier to follow (i.e. the one's at our Church are difficult to follow due to the page being cluttered with Arabic/Coptic, and the fact that the order of the mass is not exactly as written)?

If not, is anyone working/know of anyone working of a rewrite of the English liturgy. I feel it's an important issue that's been given so little attention.

Cheers (and apologies for the extra long post!)

Comments

  • Mari_RMari_R
    Whoa! All I wrote is "m a s s", but it got edited. lol

    Wierd ...
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    what kind of Liturgy book to you guys use the one our church uses is fine and i see nothing wrong with it, it looks like this (Click on link)

    https://www.orthodoxbookstore.org/product.details.aspx?ProductID=1107
  • Mari_RMari_R
    We have that book at our church, but we rarely use it. I'm not too familiar with it, so I can't tell you about it's actual text, but I remember when we have used it that at the very least, it could have been better organized.

    The book we use is actually some one from our community produced quite a few years ago. He's now deceased, and I think people would take it as an insult to his memory to use another book.
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    i find that it is put in order pretty well. and don't see a problem with the book. that is the best book our church has had ever. so i don't know what you think is wrong with it but it is a great book.
  • Mari_RMari_R
    It might be because at our church we do a lot of switching between English and Arabic (and some times we throw in Coptic), which gets extremely confusing if you're trying to follow the text.

    I didn't say that there is anything wrong with that book - like I said, I'm not very familiar with it.

    Cheers
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Mari_R link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=0#msg64957 date=1166222834]
    It might be because at our church we do a lot of switching between English and Arabic (and some times we throw in Coptic), which gets extremely confusing if you're trying to follow the text.

    I didn't say that there is anything wrong with that book - like I said, I'm not very familiar with it.

    Cheers


    what church are you from?
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    I can understand that its hard to follow up with the liturgy when u only understand one of 3 languages that are used.

    Aren't there any all english services at your church? I know they have special 0% arabic/coptic liturgies to avoid problems like this...
  • Mari_RMari_R
    I'm from Canada, and go to a medium-sized church with a largely immigrant population. Hence, at least to my knowledge, they've never had an English only liturgy (in fact, older people complain whenever a priest makes an effort to speak English for us younger folks during the sermon.)
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    Oh well i guess if you only know english then it can be hard. i grew up with the arabic liturgy and only had an english one the first time when i was probably like 10 or 11. and i was born in america. but because our population was pretty much completely immigrants then the liturgy was in arabic. the priest started to do it in english for our generations sake. the only reason i really know the liturgy in english honestly by heart is because i have it on CD by abouna Antonious.
  • Mari_RMari_R
    Abouna Antonious? Which one? (Should I know what you're talking about? :-[ )
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    um i am not sure what church he's in now but he was a priest in Florida who made the best English liturgy ever
  • Mari_RMari_R
    I know of a Father Antonious Hanna near San Fancisco, California. Is he the one?
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    Yeah thats him
  • Mari_RMari_R
    [quote author=jydeacon link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=0#msg64903 date=1166066423]
    what kind of Liturgy book to you guys use the one our church uses is fine and i see nothing wrong with it, it looks like this (Click on link)

    https://www.orthodoxbookstore.org/product.details.aspx?ProductID=1107
    I recently got a look at this book ... it's not half bad; the glaring grammatical errors are gone, but some of it is still ackwardly phrased. Unfortunately, I don't think my church will be willing to change over - people get set in their ways.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Mari_R link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=0#msg65252 date=1166727096]
    [quote author=jydeacon link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=0#msg64903 date=1166066423]
    what kind of Liturgy book to you guys use the one our church uses is fine and i see nothing wrong with it, it looks like this (Click on link)

    https://www.orthodoxbookstore.org/product.details.aspx?ProductID=1107
    I recently got a look at this book ... it's not half bad; the glaring grammatical errors are gone, but some of it is still ackwardly phrased. Unfortunately, I don't think my church will be willing to change over - people get set in their ways.


    what are you talking about. this is the pest edited english translation there is right now and there is a new edition of it which as said is coming out soon. and i don't think there would be as much diffrence from the current one.
  • Mari_RMari_R
    Well, just because it is the best translation that exists does not mean that there is no room for improvment.

    Why are they going to release a new version if it's not going to be much different anyway?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Mari_R link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=15#msg65300 date=1166841702]
    Well, just because it is the best translation that exists does not mean that there is no room for improvment.

    Why are they going to release a new version if it's not going to be much different anyway?


    u should ask them. also can you tell me what improvment would you have. also there one thing, you have to conceder the source of the litrugy, the coptic liturgy.
  • Mari_RMari_R
    [quote author=minagir link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=15#msg65301 date=1166844829]u should ask them. also can you tell me what improvment would you have. also there one thing, you have to conceder the source of the litrugy, the coptic liturgy.


    While it's certainly very true that the original source is of utmost importance to a translation (by definition), you must also consider the fact that a verbatim translation may actually convey far less meaning than a translation that takes into account the connotations and nature of the language of the translation.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Mari_R link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=15#msg65753 date=1167767438]
    [quote author=minagir link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=15#msg65301 date=1166844829]u should ask them. also can you tell me what improvment would you have. also there one thing, you have to conceder the source of the litrugy, the coptic liturgy.
    While it's certainly very true that the original source is of utmost importance to a translation (by definition), you must also consider the fact that a verbatim translation may actually convey far less meaning than a translation that takes into account the connotations and nature of the language of the translation.


    you still didn't give me any examples of mistakes. i know mostly they translated the boot litatrly like all their books. but the liturgy book is still the best around.
  • Mari_RMari_R
    [quote author=minagir link=board=4;threadid=4753;start=15#msg65754 date=1167768642]you still didn't give me any examples of mistakes.

    I know. ;D

    I'm actually waiting to get my hands on it again, which will probably be this Saturday.
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