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HOW TO PLAY THE CYMBALS
I just wanted to know if anyone knows how to play the cymbals because i am a deacon and i dont know how to play them
If you know a specific pattern to play the cymbals with any hymns or praises, then you can post it in a format such as:
Rightup, down,up,left,down,etc.
I know a way to use them but i tried practicing but it doesnt sound right.
If you know a specific pattern to play the cymbals with any hymns or praises, then you can post it in a format such as:
Rightup, down,up,left,down,etc.
I know a way to use them but i tried practicing but it doesnt sound right.
Comments
I just wanted to know if anyone knows how to play the cymbals because i am a deacon and i dont know how to play them
If you know a specific pattern to play the cymbals with any hymns or praises, then you can post it in a format such as:
well you first need to learn and know many alhan tha the cymbals are played in. and when you do that, you have to ask somone who is phisicly there to teach u.
God bless and Pray for me and my weakness
but as u can tell by my name i play the drums and the cymbals are just keeping time with the hymm.
I was at church a while ago and i was listening to them being played thinking i can duplicate it later on my kit. anyway the beat was as follows.
4/4 measure with 1/8 note hit hat pattern counted as
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
It has two accents on 3, 4. Accents mean its played louder then the other notes. i assume this is done by slapping the cymbals in the middle?? i also assume that up and down refer to up stroke and a down stroke which is the way you would play it on the hi hats for the 1/8 note on the &.
Im not sure if this is the only pattern that can be played to hymms or do different people play different patterns but that is how i heard it being played. Just keep practicing and play it over and over again until it becomes second nature.
pray for me
again time signature = 4/4, measure counted as
x x x x > x x x >
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
x = 1/8th note
x x x = triplet
> = Accent
i hope u all can understand wat ive written if u dont ask me???
i think maybe u can play any pattern u like as long as it is 4/4 and has two consequative accents. Cause its the accents that make it what it is.
but i do no a little
just make little circles all around the deaf
(1) Hold one of the cymbal firm and don't move it (this means that the other side will only move to make the sound
(2) with the other side, touch the top and the bottom, then touch again the top and bottom, then just hit the side the moves into the other side that doesn't move (I hope you can get what I mean).
(3) once you get familiar with the process, you can spead things faster to get a better sound and a better playing
hope this helped
http://coptichymns.net/modules.php?name=Coptic_Media&op=modload&file=index&p=Coptic%20Hymns/Liturgical%20Coptic%20Hymns/Learn%20Church%20Instruments/Cymbals
They are 4 lessons teaching you how to play the daf.
I live in the UK and I taught myself on my own without anything at all. Why don't you try
pray for me
pfm
joe
Why don't you check this out
http://coptichymns.net/modules.php?name=Coptic_Media&op=modload&file=index&p=Coptic%20Hymns/Liturgical%20Coptic%20Hymns/Learn%20Church%20Instruments/Cymbals
They are 4 lessons teaching you how to play the daf.
I live in the UK and I taught myself on my own without anything at all. Why don't you try
pray for me
i tried that link and it doesn't work with me
Don't play them TOO loud so you have to sing louder.
Don't hold them next to your mouth. That may sound obvious, but our "mo3alim" in France plays the cymbals SOO LOUDLY and he holds them up to his mouth (he is definately backward!), and then he sings REALLY LOUDLY in the microphone. Trust me, his technique should not be reproduced. Most people left the Church because of this man's cymbals (and voice probably). He's just a headache.
Abouna even complained about him; but he doesn't listen.
Cymbals work really well in the tasbeha; more so than the mass. During the tasbeha, i could be wrong, perhaps Minagir could correct me, but i think every hoss in the tasbeha goes well with the cymbals. U even have what's called "Verses of the Cymbals".
of course...ur right. tasbeha rocks with deffs...especially Shere ne Maria and Semouti which we play 2 deffs somtimes. wait...what about bright saturday....last year we played 8 deffs in the 2 processions and maybe 9 during the Alleluias in the revelation readings.....so awsome
Jeez! Nine defs? That's alot. I would like to hear that if you have a recording. I've never heard more than 1 deff at a time.
I have been there. Trust me it's AMAZING. U have to be there. it keeps the people up and not let them sleep
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=4841.msg80607#msg80607 date=1198537071]
Jeez! Nine defs? That's alot. I would like to hear that if you have a recording. I've never heard more than 1 deff at a time.
I have been there. Trust me it's AMAZING. U have to be there. it keeps the people up and not let them sleep
yes.....i have a small video on my phone which i'll try to upload....
I, however, was curious how nine cymbals playing at the same time would be "awesome"? If it was so "awesome" then the Church would have made this a constant practice throughout the years, centuries, etc. My understanding is for a certain dignity towards the Liturgical services. The cymbal helps in keeping tempo and beat and to be expressive of the meaning intoned in the chants that are being done, no different than the use of church bells for different occasions and events. For example, when it is a festal occasion the bells a rung with a certain "happy" rhythm and when it is for a solemn occasion, such as a funeral, the bell is rung with a solemn tone.
The cymbal is not the main focus but rather an instrument to point or lead to the main focus, and that is the words that are being chanted. At a time when there were no microphones, the sound of the cymbal would assist in the gathering of the voices in a directed manner.
I would say that for some in attendance they would see this presentation as excessive, and an outright distraction from the service itself. The effort of joy and love is when everyone is involved in the Liturgy and the voices are lifted up from the depth of their hearts and the fortitude of their gutt. That many cymbals quashes the expression of the congregation.
Those are some interesting notes on playing the cymbals. What I most appreciate is the attempt to put a proper musical systemization.
I, however, was curious how nine cymbals playing at the same time would be "awesome"? If it was so "awesome" then the Church would have made this a constant practice throughout the years, centuries, etc. My understanding is for a certain dignity towards the Liturgical services. The cymbal helps in keeping tempo and beat and to be expressive of the meaning intoned in the chants that are being done, no different than the use of church bells for different occasions and events. For example, when it is a festal occasion the bells a rung with a certain "happy" rhythm and when it is for a solemn occasion, such as a funeral, the bell is rung with a solemn tone.
The cymbal is not the main focus but rather an instrument to point or lead to the main focus, and that is the words that are being chanted. At a time when there were no microphones, the sound of the cymbal would assist in the gathering of the voices in a directed manner.
I would say that for some in attendance they would see this presentation as excessive, and an outright distraction from the service itself. The effort of joy and love is when everyone is involved in the Liturgy and the voices are lifted up from the depth of their hearts and the fortitude of their gutt. That many cymbals quashes the expression of the congregation.
well i didn't say we do it all the time....just in some occasions that at the time, it gives some kind of astonishment towards the people.
when you used the example of useing the deffs when there was no mics, you're just confirming that you need the deffs to be louder because the voice of who ever is lead will be louder.
So for example, when you are in a procession on bright saturday where all you are saying is "Kerie Leison" which the WHOLE congregation is saying from all their hearts in the same tunes they all know without a deacon to lead, even 9 deffs are not enough to cover their voices.
I wonder what would H.G.B. Youanness would say about this.....in his kiahk tasbehas you can see that there are tons of people who have deffs and just pllay them from all their joyful feeling of actaully being their in that specific time in praising God.
I believe that one of the problems of following "traditions" and precedence from just watching a video and emulating (or even imitating) is that things are taken out of context. Things do not necessarily have a "universality" just because it was in a video. Nor the fact that a particular local tradition, which may work well there, be a point to be carried to the whole Mother Church. The responsibility of using the cymbals is a double-edged sword. The focus should always be the words that are being chanted, that is what causes excitement. The cymbals are simply a tool to keep the rhythm. I would point to many pious monks and their practice in monasteries as being exclusive of such distraction. I question: "is the Kyrie eleison the inspiration for the congregational outpouring or the use of nine cymbals?" If it is the cymbals, then there is a problem. I have attended many a procession...many liturgical services, and I would dare say it is the piercing of the words through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that makes for the outpouring and not some instrument.
There are many chants that bring tears and do not utilize any insturmental accompaniment. I would mention a chant such as 'Omonogenees' as such a case.
Another question that may be raised is whether other instruments should be introduced in order to carry the fervor that would be from nine cymbals? Why not emulate the Ethiopian church and the use of their drums?
There are certain aspects that relate to our heritage and traditions. There are aspects that relate to decorum and dignity of the service.
I will dare say that I have witnessed the use of multiple cymbals, and there was no decorum. There were side comments being made by the vested, and there was most certainly a detraction from the dignity of the House of God.
I believe one of the problems that is arising is the lack of mentoring and discipleship that should occur from assuming the learning process of the chants and even the accompanying instruments: triangle and cymbals. The internet and the digital media have allowed for the mass dissemination of this information. There has been quite an accelerated learning process, but one has to wonder if their is a spiritual nurturing that is being carried forward concurrently.
I once had a twelve year old boy come to me and ask if he may chant Pek-ethronos on Great Friday. Since, by early tradition, it is not chanted by a choir but rather by the highest ranking cleric in attendance. If that person is unable to carry forward then it is transferred down the chain until someone is found to be able to chant this most sacred selection of the Psalms. I mentioned that to that boy and that also it was amazing that he spent so much time in learning that particular chant. I offered him the ability to do so (chant it on Great Friday) if he presented me a 100 word essay expressing what he felt about that particular chant. I met him again a week later and he declared he could not and did not. He said, 'I guess you should say it since I don't really know the meaning of the words'.
The need at hand is for more discipleship and mentoring to achieve a better diaconate. The electronic media is helpful but unfortunately I sense from the threads and remarks that I have read, and by the examples I witness at different parishes, that the time and true aspect for the health and well-being of the diaconate is being sacrificed. Ultimately, the diaconate is essential for the success of the Church. In my criticisms and frustrations in the past, they have included strong comments about the need for strong leadership from the "top of the pyramid", yet I have come to realize that there is a need for a stronger and more zealous ministry from the diaconate.
I have walked into the altars in many churches, and I find that there are visible signs which identify symptoms of a weak diaconate. The altars are dirty, the censors are covered terribly with tar, the vestment closets have everything strewn on the ground, the holy oils covered with papers and veils fallen into them, icons that have been scratched and dismantled, and believe me I can go on and on. The issue is not that God wants gold, marble, and silk everywhere but rather the quality of diaconate minsitry.
If a cantor plays the cymbals is one thing, but if he cannot appreciate that the altar vessels and holy oils are desecrated then there is a huge problem. I believe you are sincere minagir in your service, but I do not think that fostering the mass effect of cymbals is the essential point. I would plead with you to be a voice at your given church for these more important points. You have mentioned your particular church in the past. There are many vested for the given services, but in the end after all of the chanting and instrument playing, has anyone come forward with the respectful duty to the Holy Altar.
In all, my points are made relative to the initial question of how to play the cymbals. For the person that asked the question, I would say do not waste your time at this point learning the cymbals, but rather spend time in appreciating the theology of the words, the beauty of the traditions that are being passed to us from hundreds of years of discipleship.
Sorry for the long ramble, but I feel strongly about the deacons waking up and assuming their duties that our Fathers set as an example. The main purpose of the diaconate as mentioned thoughtfully in the Book of the Acts of Our Holy Fathers the Apostles is to be, essentially: waiters and janitors (superintendants), and in the Epistles as an extension of the "five senses" of the priestly orders. I know that the actual act of the tunes of the chants are important to preserve, but they are not the primary ministry of the diaconate.
My words are an expression of my observations over time, and I certainly hope that our Coptic Church does not become so sterile in its liturgical expression that it hinders any congregational expression. There has to be a reasonable amount of concentration, decorum, and sanctity to be able to achieve the higher goal of Liturgical Prayer.
Minagir you are a very thoughtful person. I hope you hear my words, not as a challenge to your thoughts or ministry, but as a possible view of the situation from another angle.
Happy New Year (the Anno Domini)
I personally don’t like to use live media recordings as a full source because they can easily astray many who rely fully on them. Even though I do use what I do and what was taught in my church and can define it. And I consider that part of discipleship that is in every single church…atleast supposed to be. Even though I always do that, I still don’t generalize my concepts on the church as a whole, but rather define them to be true. Same to deaconship and its ranks. Every church has her own spirituality in doing thing through her deacons. Every rank have it’s own duty and not all have the same, even thought it seems that way today. Therefore everyone knows and does his duty in church.
It’s was proven before that instruments have their own use in our church and there is no reason to repeat what was said before. Just fully ignoring their use, defects part of our traditions and rites. The ability to play the cymbals is not a mandatory one but rather a preferred one to take on their use.
ilovesaintmark, I personally also use what I seen across my life and churches to define actions in our church, but I don’t fully use them as a source.
Also btw, the “Pek-ethronos” expression is nice, but again, I wouldn’t use it as a generalization for this because that is only in your church. in my church we say pek-ethronos as a chorus or 2 of our deacons and I personally don’t remember a time I heard one person say it.
As for defining our church use of that many deffs, I have already proven that in my last post.
Happy New Year to you to and to all.
My point certainly is not to abolish the use of the cymbals but rather that they do not become a distraction. Personally, I love the sound of the cymbals and they are an essential accessory to the chants. I cannot fathom how nine cymbals would be construed as anything but a distraction. You did not comment on the irregularities and side comments that come about as a practical concept from such a spectacle.
I do not think that proof is the main point in your comments, but rather an expression of a local tradition at your church. My point is that resources are limited in life, and time is a premium, I would mention that as an advice, the cymbals to learn would be lesser if not the least of the priorities--which is what I was trying to highlight for the initial topic and question.
As an aside from this discussion, I am just curious, why is it that you mention that "Pek-ethronos" is chanted at your church by a chorus at one time or by two deacons at another?
Getting back to the previous points...now, that the Nativity Feast is upon us, will the whole chorus participate in the preparation of the sanctuary? and if only for the Nativity what about the upkeep of the Sanctuary for the other days? Why is it always the rush for the High Holy Feasts and the other fifty weeks are ignored? Is Our Lord only deserving of the thoughtfulness for His House only on those two days? Again, the aspects of the diaconate to learning the discipline and discipleship of the chants is to first accept the reverence and duty to the sanctity of the Sanctuary before proceeding to other duties. That, minagir, is the most important thing. There are no sub-divisions for that cause. And most certainly, it is the highest calling for every member of the diaconate. The cleanliness and "godliness" is a cause and duty from which all spiritual effects are derived.
When the novices first enter for monastic vocations, they spend much time doing menial work. I dare say that some of these things, to us living in western accommodations, would have difficulty swallowing as a task. Yet, it is given as an exercise in discipline.
It is this zeal for the House of God that must be inducted in order to have a strong foundation for service.
As a question: How many deacons at your church play the cymbals? and how many participate in the cleaning and care of the Sanctuary? How many deacons help to keep the order during the Liturgy so that the congregation may have the concentration for prayer? How many deacons are walking in and out of the altar to ask the priest to say different chants? These are all distractions. Everyone says: 'just go to church and pray'. That is all well and dandy but you need quiet and decorum to be able to concentrate. Have you noticed that when you take an exam there is essentially total quiet in order that one be able to concentrate on the exam.
I do not mean to get into a banter with you, and that is certainly not my purpose. My purpose is to put a perspective on priority. I do not know if you mean to answer in order to defend a given practice at your church. My attack is on the practical aspect of how such a situation when it arises, may have a deleterious affect on the souls (both the players and the listeners). May be I am wrong, and maybe you have taken it to offense, but I do not wish to cause you annoyance on the first day of the year.
BTW, I do have serveral sets of cymbals with different tones to them. I polish them no different from the fact that I keep my vestments clean and pressed. These things, symbolically, are an extension of my expression as a deacon. I think for me the best times I have spent in the church have been when I was cleaning, organising, and polishing. I would involve as many people as I could find (sometimes a dozen or two dozen). We would eat together, and laugh, and from this there was a strong bond to each other as brethren, and at the same time, we learned to associate our service for His House. When time came for the Liturgical service, there was no talking, and no discussion or comments.
1st, for deacons not knowing their duties or the responsibilities they were entrusted with, this is a problem. First for those who are responsible for their ordination (not solely bishops but more specifically priests and leading deacon of that specific church). Our church is a church of order. Yes a deacon can serve in anything but there is a specific order and structure that is followed. Yes sometimes there are exceptions where others do the duties of others but that is only upon emergencies of those specific deacons.
Now as for what we do in my church, we have specific people doing different things on regular bases weekly, getting ready liturgies in 2 different churches. On feasts, like the upcoming Nativity, we do more general cleaning like the whole iconostasis for example, the dome on the altar that is harder to get to clean, clean all the icon in the church, make the other church to be ready for more sitting areas set up with video screens of the live liturgy being prayed upstairs. Because before every major season, all the leading deacons meet and decide how things are going to be chanted. My church is famous for all her deacons and the way that they are all great deacons that we don’t have 1 specific cantor in charge, but mostly all. So since Pek-ethronos is a great hymn as it is known, sometimes not all knows it as well. When reviewing we decide if to say it as a chorus of just 2 deacons would rabba’ together. And that is preferred since it’s better to hear it from 2 deacons said correctly than from a whole chorus mistaking many times. Chanting hymns in a chorus is very dangerous especially if not much people are in the chorus because you can mess up and another would hear you and does so to. You are generalizing all the duties on all deacons. Not every person is the same. As we had a deacons meeting last Sunday and our abouna spoke, he said it’s great that most of the deacon who are coming church are actually there. you think it’s easy for a great doctor, husband and father of 3 children and 2 on the way will be as free as a college student like me……no. but the fact that he still comes to regular Sunday liturgies, other services on the side, deacons meeting and review sessions as we do, this gives him enough credit. Not every person is the same. not every part of the chorus will be free to come and clean the altar with us even though they are the ones who actually taught us how to actually clean the altar in the right way. The important thing is that things will be done. Abouna doesn’t mind who does the altar. He assigns someone to do so, if that someone can’t, he asks other to do so.
As for sanctuary services being the most important of all, they are not the first to be learned. Because the sanctuary the highest of all and a person is ready he starts serving in there. When you ordain a 6-year-old boy as a deacon, you teach him the things that he can actually do in his age and than the things that he’ll do latter. Can’t skip on huge step. And having the important sanctuary services, this can’t interfere with the other services.
There have to be a balance in all things, including services. Well many deacons know how to play the deff, not all. Most of them, including me, help in cleaning with others from younger deacons. The projectors and 2 screens on each side of church help a lot to the people following in liturgy other than Sunday school teachers who are deacons and who watch their children on the chorus and stand on the doors of the church. As for chants, in major occasions we know what we’re saying and just say it. When we think that there is time to say things, we ask the priest to do so we don’t mess up the time frame for the liturgy. Also out of respect you do have to tell abouna when you’e like saying the aspasmos adam or watos. These are all essential things in the liturgy and the way deacons are brought up in the church, discipleship, and they way it keeps going from now and on.
ilovesaintmark, in this way we will keep going forever because you are looking at things in a too spiritual and a definite way, which is not wrong, but hard to deal with and to use as a generalization. I, on the other hand, use what happens, what I was taught, I learn by asking many other about what I seen, and the fact that there is always exceptions for EVERYTHING, and never a definite thought in things…..except of course in our main faith point.