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Who's Wagdi Bishara?
Can someone tell me who Wagdi Bishara is and where he's from?
Comments
I think he is from New Jersey or something though
My name is Wagdi Maher Bishara, Alexandria, Egypt. I Live in NY. I used to serve in St. George Church, Sporting, Alexandria, Egypt. I am deacon and I also have education from both Egypt and the US in LAW. I learned the Hymns from late Great Cantor Farag Abdel Messeih, the recordings of Master Michail Albatanouny and HICS. I did also learn the survivng rare hymns from the Recordings of both Alexandrian and Sahidic Cantors to complete the hymns that were not known to Master AlBatanouny. In the late 1980's I formed The Alexandria Choir to chant in coptic. Among the Choir are 2 deacons from St. Mark Church, NJ: Mina Marcos and Maged Michail.
In 1990 I was asked by MINA MARCOS to record the entire coptic hymns to St. George Audio Library. He sponsored the work, without him, this project would have not been happen. I tried to recover those hymns last year and put them in mp3 digital format to be available for free to the hymns community, some of them were in good shape but the rest were distored due to the long period of storaging the tapes. I am now working on re-recording them digitally to be posted at tasbeha.org. Soon, you should expect the new folders to be posted at tasbeha.org, including some of the highly rare hymns. Tasbeha.org will have the exclusive right to publich them.
I hope that this be of help to the coptic hymns community.
Thanks
Wagdi Bishara
I will speak with Mina Girgis and see if there is a chance to post the entire 4 verses . I only know the first 2, I can install the tune on the other 2 verses if necessary. However, I dod think 2 verses are more than enough.
Wagdi Bishara
please feel free to write me at anytime- this issue is very important to me.
Deacon's Service "Khedmet Elshamas;
Bsalmody
Kyahk Psalmody
Kholagy
You may find them on www.orthodoxbookstore.com I will get them from Egypt soon, and I am working on saving them in PDF format to be available for the coptic hymns community, but for now you may at least buy the khedmet elshamas "Cantor Farag".
Thanks
Wagdi
Tennen Hymns's text can only be found at Deacon's service Book Nahdat ElKanaes. You may find the first 2 verses, which are known in the church in the following link http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/index.php?a=view&id=616
I will speak with Mina Girgis and see if there is a chance to post the entire 4 verses . I only know the first 2, I can install the tune on the other 2 verses if necessary. However, I dod think 2 verses are more than enough.
Wagdi Bishara
Done.
P.S. Khedmet Shamas-excellent book i can't read arabic but it has still had use for me i have used it alot
thanks for all ur efforts Mr Wagdi :)
Concerning the extra verses of Tenen, they were recorded by HICS in the recordings of Bright Saturday:
http://tasbeha.org/mp3/Hymns/Other_Occasions/Bright_Saturday/Higher_Institute_of_Studies/01.Praises.html
Also the HCOC recorded all verses of Tenen, you can buy the Cd's from orthodoxbookstore.com
-matt-
Thanx
P.S. Khedmet Shamas-excellent book i can't read arabic but it has still had use for me i have used it alot
well you have the hymn text library here on tasbeha.org. u can use that to. we try to make as accurate as it can get and we also gather all hymns in one place for everyone to use. also btw,
If anyone find any mistakes in the Hymn Text Library, please contact me.
My point is this, the recording of the second 2 verses, although it was mentioned in the HICS recording, but it was added later without permission. The same person who installed the Gregorian Liturgy Tune on the Cyrilian Liturgy. YOU DO THE MATH.
Wagdi Bishara.
Hos Eroph, Thank you very much. I did check the weblink you attached. There is a fact you need to know about the HICS recordings. After Dr. Moftah depart, the recordings were re-edited, some hymns were added and some were taken off. There was no suppervision. The first 2 verses were recorded by the Choir and taught by Cantor Farag Abdel Messeih, according to Master AlBatanouny's teaching. The second 2 verses, were recorded separt and were added to the recording. Now a days, with the internet, digital audio and lack of suppervision, you need to find the history of recording the hymns. I was there at that time. Most of the HICS recordings on the web are not matching those we used to buy on tapes during the 1970s and 1980s, which were done by Dr. Moftah.
My point is this, the recording of the second 2 verses, although it was mentioned in the HICS recording, but it was added later without permission. The same person who installed the Gregorian Liturgy Tune on the Cyrilian Liturgy. YOU DO THE MATH.
Wagdi Bishara.
so am not the only one Hos Erof.
I tried to recover those hymns last year and put them in mp3 digital format to be available for free to the hymns community, some of them were in good shape but the rest were distored due to the long period of storaging the tapes. I am now working on re-recording them digitally to be posted at tasbeha.org. Soon, you should expect the new folders to be posted at tasbeha.org, including some of the highly rare hymns. Tasbeha.org will have the exclusive right to publich them.
I hope that this be of help to the coptic hymns community.
Thanks
Wagdi Bishara
ofcourse it helps :)
and we are waiting for the new recordings
hope they come sooooooooooon
and plz give us notification when they are added to the site,
GBU
An example, can we use the sha'anini long tune of the Sherat to make a long intro to Psalm 150, just as the long festal intro to psalm 150?
If we have 2 Tenen verses, and the tune is known...why can't we use the same tune to apply it to the remaining verses (it's not like we r going to sing al 4 of them anyway ;D), but yah, i rather have the tune applied to the rest of the verses than to have mere tuneless text in my psalmody book. There's simply no alternative...
The same goes for the Cyrillian Liturgy, nobody ever said that its the 100% authentic tune, but its the best they could do. I rather have a 2/3 accurate coptic Cyrillian liturgy than just a few pieces of hymns. Once again, there's no alternative!
All hymns were "made" at a certain point and they definetely must have changed over all these hundreds of years, so we should treat them the way they should be treated: as wonderfull tools to praise God with.
This all is my personal opinion, and certainly not an official standpoint of any authoritive source. I'm simply stating my opinion ;)
-matt-
I think this discussion goes way beyond HICS and Muallim Mikhail the great. The issue here is, how far can we go to install tunes on "lost hymns".
An example, can we use the sha'anini long tune of the Sherat to make a long intro to Psalm 150, just as the long festal intro to psalm 150?
If we have 2 Tenen verses, and the tune is known...why can't we use the same tune to apply it to the remaining verses (it's not like we r going to sing al 4 of them anyway ;D), but yah, i rather have the tune applied to the rest of the verses than to have mere tuneless text in my psalmody book. There's simply no alternative...
The same goes for the Cyrillian Liturgy, nobody ever said that its the 100% authentic tune, but its the best they could do. I rather have a 2/3 accurate coptic Cyrillian liturgy than just a few pieces of hymns. Once again, there's no alternative!
All hymns were "made" at a certain point and they definetely must have changed over all these hundreds of years, so we should treat them the way they should be treated: as wonderfull tools to praise God with.
This all is my personal opinion, and certainly not an official standpoint of any authoritive source. I'm simply stating my opinion ;)
-matt-
you cann't use Tene as a way to compare with St. Cyrils liturgy. we know that tenne have one simple tune but 4 parts. only the first 2 recorded. since they are 4 parts and evry one is the same as the other, that you can rakkeb the tune on the text. same as Paralexes, Praxes response, doxologiers, Psalie.........a non ending list. but st Cyrils Liturgy, of course not. for example if you have 1 litany recorded than yes you can like take that tune and rekkeb the rest on it (since there is more litanies in the liturgy) but here, YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING to rakeeb from
And like i said before: what is ur alternative for the Liturgy of Cyril? Not praying it? or use the even less authentic arabic tunes?
I've stated my opinion, and you stated urs. It won't change anything anywayz, and I happen to like the recording by Fr Mattias Nasr ;) :P
(btw you may want to listen to an interview with Fr Mattias on copticheritage.org, there he explains how they ended up with the coptic liturgy as it was recorded:)
http://www.copticheritage.org/PagEd+index-page_id-817.phtml
What I meant regarding Tennen, is that the HICS did not record the second 2 verses, but I did not mean that we should not tuned them. It is clear that the 4 verses have the same tune, they were cut to 2 verses only just because the hymn is too long and Kyahk praises have too many hymns to fit in one night, that was the only reason and the same applies to the Kyahk Sharaat.
We only put a known tune on a text that suppose to be chanted with such tune. WE DO NOT NEVER EVER CREAT TUNE INSTEAD OF LOST ONE ON EXISTING TEXT. The Cyrilian Liturgy's tunes were lost hundreds of years, except 2 of them: Introduction to Commemoration and Okoti Anon after the commemoration. We did merge them with the Gregorian Liturgy as we found out that they did fit in. It is not exceptable under no circumstances that we chant the entire Cyrilian Liturgy using the Gregorian tunes. This is a totally different issue.
As Mina said, we install tunes on bsalies, aspamos, etc., but we do not creat a new tunes from our imagination. This been always been happening in our church and will be. Our job is to diffrenciate between whats been done to serve the church and whats been done to serve personal victory.
At the end, you are free to select your toturial, and thats why tasbeha.org is offering you more than one choice. In my own opinion, this should come with a personl responsibility.
The fact that we both are having this conversation, is because you love your church, and you really want to have it all. I respect that, in fact, I used to be this person long time ago.
Good luck with your search.
wagdi Bishara
God bless you and all the work you do for the preservation of the coptic hymns.
And didn't HICS make up the hymns for the Cyril Liturgy? Cause thats what I heard.
It is nice to learn about you.
God bless you and all the work you do for the preservation of the coptic hymns.
And didn't HICS make up the hymns for the Cyril Liturgy? Cause thats what I heard.
lol, that's what we're talkinga bout al long .
I don't think it was right for them to make those tunes on the Cyril. They are supposed to be a standerizing model for the hymns but it dissapoints me to see it under their name.
Also, what rare hymns were you talking about WB?
Just out of curiosity, where did all of Wagdi Bisharas hymns go? I can't find them to download them anymore.
he is updating all of them. therefore they're are not online for the time being. but when they come back, they'll be full and perfect. i think i can take the libarty of answering part of this.......let's see...many long hymns including Al Nos-ellil, Evlogimenos -great, all of Ondos, Kiahk great hoos, the kaihk exposition, also 3 of the greek hymns that i never heard any where before. also many many more. actaully one more is the small paragraph after the "Je agios, agios,....", the congregation response in St. Gregory's Liturgy, "O-sanna". i only heard it from Muallem Mikhael on their original recording of St.Gregory's liturgy.
Thank You
Tom
I read the hymns by Wagdi Bishara will be posted here. Does anyone know the status of this?
Thank You
Tom
same answer:
[quote author=minagir link=topic=4905.msg80403#msg80403 date=1197906492]
he is updating all of them. therefore they're are not online for the time being. but when they come back, they'll be full and perfect.
:)
sorry for bringing up such an old topic, but are there any updates on the re-posting?
thanks in advance,
Mourad