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traditions
I have a few questions that have come up recently that i couldnt answer i'll put them in the one topic cause i guess they all about church traditions
1. they say that if u dont have communion for longer than 40 days u become demon possessed. where did this come from? who made it up? i mean its not in the bible or written down anywhere so how do we know theres truth behind it???
2. why is our mass so long, (compared to catholic) for example on big feasts (easter and christmas) we say kyerlason 400 times and kneel down and walk around the church, where did all this come from and why is it different from all the other churches?
1. they say that if u dont have communion for longer than 40 days u become demon possessed. where did this come from? who made it up? i mean its not in the bible or written down anywhere so how do we know theres truth behind it???
2. why is our mass so long, (compared to catholic) for example on big feasts (easter and christmas) we say kyerlason 400 times and kneel down and walk around the church, where did all this come from and why is it different from all the other churches?
Comments
this is what i think is the anwser;
1. they say that if u dont have communion for a period of 40 days or longer you become susceptable to the devil not necessarily that u will become possessed. im not sure where it comes from though
2. a) our mass is so long cause we celebrate and commemorate the life of Christ - u tell me which part u think is irrelevant so that we can cut it out?
b) we say kerryalayson 400 times on Good Friday which is the day Christ was crucified
c) all these things came from tradition - some things we do in the mass come from the Bible but most things come from the tradition that the fathers handed down - the Coptic Orthodox church follows tradition
hope i helped
Kristina123
does anyone know where the communion thing come from???
I asked the question about the mass because i have a friend that is more catholic that asked me the question and i didnt know how to answer it, he just asked why do u do all those things wats the difference if u do all that or not, isnt it all the same in the end?
Holy Communion originated from the Last Supper where the Lord took bread and broke it and also gave the discipled the wine and said 'this is my body and blood etc.' we say it all the tym durin the mass if u havnt noticed. and to your other questions.. kristina is 100% correct.
God Bless
+FROG+
im still confused u made no sense at all and didnt even try to answer the question, i know where communion started but my question was how do we know its true that u can become susceptable to demon possiocion if u dont?
Also with the mass all Kris said was we say kerylason 400 times, i already knew that, she said it comes from tradition i also already knew that hence the topic title tradition, she did however say what part do i want removed, which is not something i suggested but she just threw it in for some reason
my question again to make it clear, my friend asked me to explain why we do this stuff in the mass? and why do we does it make us better in Gods eyes for having a longer mass, is it written in the bible that we must do this?
1. they say that if u dont have communion for longer than 40 days u become demon possessed. where did this come from? who made it up? i mean its not in the bible or written down anywhere so how do we know theres truth behind it???
The Lord clearly stated that unless you partake of His Body and Blood, you have no life in you. Holy Communion is what nurtures and sustains us, and without it we cannot lead a Christian life.
The recommendation of not abstaining from Communion for longer than 40 days comes from the experience of the Godbearing fathers and mothers of the Church.
But this is not an absolute rule. Take St. Mary of Egypt, for example, who only received the holy Mysteries twice in her whole life; yet she could walk on water! The Catholic mass is short because they shortened it; simple as that really.
does anyone know any quotes or references to how our mass and the catholic mass were formed?
i personally like ours it has alot of character, i do admit a 4-5 hour christmas mass is huge and i personally have never attended the entire mass
1. they say that if u dont have communion for longer than 40 days u become demon possessed. where did this come from? who made it up? i mean its not in the bible or written down anywhere so how do we know theres truth behind it???
The tradition say that if you don't take communion for a long time u'll be an open target for demons to possess. the 40 days is just the maximum number for you not taking communion, except if there is a 'hormaneia' from a clergy member to not to. that also apply to confession. also i think its listed in the 'Disqoleia' which is 1 of the books of the Apostles' canons. First you can't fully compare with the catholics. the catholics and their liturgy don't take all the steps we do. basicly they do the liturgy of the believers.
Second, please get your facts right. the 400 Kerie Leisons are done on Good Friday followed my the procession. The Order is this:
The elder priest holds up the cross and the congregation says “Lord have mercy,” one hundred times towards the east, one hundred times toward the west, one hundred times north, and one hundred times south, and ending with twelve times towards the east.
The procession circles the altar table three times then three times around the church and ends with procession around the altar table.
Towards the East, West.... because we're, at that time, declaring the death of Jesus Christ on the cross to the whole world. Of course it's done with matanias becuase everyone at that time is asking for mercy. He saved you and just died for you, you wouldn't bow down for Him and preach His death as He said!!!
Now there is many books that talk about the timing the liturgy and it's rites and spirituallity. But to put it in simple steps, the Eucharist liturgy is the where Christ comes to us in His blood and flesh to dwell in our bodies. to be granted this you have to be ready. so that's why we have the liturgy int his order:
- The Agpeya Hours that are appropriate for the day
- Vespers Praises
- Vespers (Night raising of incense)
- Midnight Prayer followed by it's Praises
- Matins (Morning raising of incense)
- The Liturgy:
- The Procession of the Lamb
- The Liturgy of the Word
- The Liturgy of the Believers
- Communion
Now again, there is many books that talk about this. search...........
But if you're not a lady,and you don't take communion for more than 40 days then think about the main reason ur not takin in..its always satan..so within the period of 2 weeks if you skip communion then satan ALREADY has a hold of you. This is just the way i look at it! correct me if am wrong.
GBU
sandra
But most importantly you have to set prayer, fasting, and communion ur #1 priority and take communion consistently..especially during fasting b/c ur aim should be growing closer and intimate with God.
Overall 40 days doesn't exactly mean 40 days.
Second of all, you shouldn't argue someone, well...that's what my father of confession told me... we shouldn't fight others... we should attract people to our faith by our actions..i can't deny that i fight and argue too...but that's not right after all...and u have to always keep in mind that our faith and liturgy has set of meanings, symbols that are meaningful, and during liturgy/tasbeha u feel like u r singing with the angels...the hymns, tasbeha and all these liturgy rhythms are so nice..that's why its long.... also...we shouldn't fight catholics b/c their faith is close to ours and they're Christians..we shouldn't be against them...
i think i've talked alot..but i hoped u learned :)[flash=200,200]http://;)[/flash][/glow]
Who said anything about fighting, im not arguing with anyone its just a topic we were talking about
I dont have a great deal of knowledge about our church and its traditions so thats why im asking to educate myself and know how to answer it next time.
and minagir, get my facts right, what are u on about the kerylason part was just an example there are alot of other things that our church does, which no other church does. its irrelavent what day we do it on.
jydeacon send me the article plz.
"Now I praise you because you remember me in everthing, and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you"
1 Corinthians 11:2
the Bible teaches validity of Tradition. if we are to have a clear and correct understanding of the gospel, we must not exclude the oral teachings that have been handed down from the apostles. the Church uses the word "Tradition" to describe the part of apostolic teaching that was handed down orally. it is very important to remember that when the Church speaks of Tradition, it is only referring to the unwritten teachings of the apostles and not "traditions of men" or "legends".
it was a good and praiseworthy thing for a believer in Christ to hold firmly to the oral Traditions that St. Paul delivered.
Why are Orthodox services longer than Roman Catholic ones? Orthodox 11 was right when he said because the RCs have shortened their service; if you go to Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches you will also find a long Liturgy. The Orthodox Churches stick with the tradition of the early Church.
The Liturgy of St. Basil dates back to the 5th century A.D. St. Basil lived from 434-466 in Cappadocia (part of Turkey now). His Liturgy actually shortened the one then in use (probably the Liturgy of St. James, which is still used by the British Orthodox Church, which comes under Alexandria and is part of the Coptic Orthodox Church); so if you find it a little long, just remember, it used to be longer!
Why do we do it? Because it is part of our tradition. Why is that? Well, what can be more important than giving thanks and praise to God who, through His Son has redeemed us? What else can you be doing that is more valuable? We spend 'quality time' with God and our brothers and sisters in Christ; if you look at the amount of time most of us waste in the average week, the Liturgy doesn't seem too long then. Our Holy Fathers did as we do. Does it make us better Christians? Not really, if we think like that, for that is to be self-righteous. We do it because we are humble in the face of Our God and King.
On the possession by demons front, yes, there are some who say so, but there is neither good scriptural nor patristic warrant for it. That said, it does refer to a deeper truth - which is that it is not good for us to stay away from the source of our salvation. When we take the body and blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ into us, we take part of the divine life into our sinful self, and that helps transform us; we would want to stay away from this life-giving nourishment for why? The only real answer to that would be because we are sinful and slothful and want to stay away from Church because we can't be bothered to attend to our own spiritual welfare. So, in that sense, the tradition of possession by demons points to the truth that if we stay away from the Eucharist for a long time, we are probably in a state of sinful denial.
I hope that this helps with your very interesting - and important - question.
In Christ,
John
You remind us well of one of the things that marks out the Orthodox Church - namely that in it we can find the fulness of the Faith. Those Protestants (and it is not all of them) who talk about the Bible 'alone' miss so much. The Holy Bible itself came out of the tradition of the early, undivided Church, and Orthodoxy has preserved all parts of the tradition, oral and written, which is why those who come to it from other Christian denominations are often blown away by it. Yes, it contains everything any other Christian Church has, but it has lost nothing and added nothing; it is the pure faith transmitted by Him to the Apostles, and by them to the Fathers, and by the Fathers to us.
The Holy Orthodox Church is like the Ark, containing in it everything that is needful; those who belong to it have the pearl of great price, and one of the many marvellous things about the Coptic Church is its willingness to share it with those who will receive it.
Thank you, Iqbal, for the information about the origin of the 40 days idea; a good source, and we should heed its lesson.
He is Risen!
In Christ,
John
your answers were well written. i did not understand it completly (there was alot of big words in there and references to people i havnt heard of before). But i did understand the points you were trying to raise.
sorry if this sounds like a silly question but i might as well ask, Who is St. Basil and St. James oh and St. Makarious. and was there ever a time before orthodox and catholic split up that we all shared the same mass?
Did anyone go to the Easter mass how goos was it, my favourite part was when they turn the lights off then make alot of noise.
really? i read that in my Church's magazine.