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WHO IS MARY THE MOTHER OF CHRIST IS SHE A GOD EQUAL TO CHRIST?

Maranatha1969Maranatha1969
edited December 1969 in Youth Corner
Can someone educate me who Mary the mother is christ is, is she really GOD? did she really have a kids after Jesus Christ?

Comments

  • Unknown
    As an Orthodox Christian, we consider Saint Mary to be the Mother of God (or Theotokos). She gave birth to Christ the logos/word. She is also known as the "Panagia" - the "Ever Virgin".

    She is not "God". She is not divine. She is human of human nature, and not of a divine nature; unlike Jesus Christ who's divinity united completely with his humanity; who was born of the Holy Spirit and of Saint Mary.

    When you say "Equal to Christ" , in what sense? In divinity - she is not divine. She is the Holy Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic]

    vassilios is exactly correct.  The Holy Theotokos is 100% human.  She is the Mother of God in the flesh but she is by no means Divine.  Just one minor correction: 'Panagia' means 'All Holy'  ;).
  • Unknown
    YES! I forgot! She IS described as "EVER VIRGIN" by the Greek Orthodox. She is called "Panagia" - all Holy by both of us. I forgot the word in Greek for ever virgin but it begins with a "p"....

  • Unknown
    [quote author=Maranatha1969 link=topic=5243.msg70327#msg70327 date=1177389901]
    Can someone educate me who Mary the mother is christ is, is she really GOD? did she really have a kids after Jesus Christ?

    No , Saint Mary had no kids . We said she is "EVER VIRGIN" - even there are titles given to her for her perpetual virginity.

    ALL orthodox churches are in accordance of this.
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    Ever virgin = aey parthenos (like we say in omonogenees for example  ;) )
  • kokiiekokiie
    St Mary was born to a barren mother after long, heart felt prayers. She had promised to give her child to the temple.. So that's where St Mary spent her life, serving in the temple. As soon as she turned 12 she was no longer allowed in the temple so she left and was betrothed (engadged) to an older man named Joseph. Soon after this, an angel appeared to Mary:

    Luke Chapter 1
    "“Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”[c]
    29 But when she saw him,[d] she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
    34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
    35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. "

    St Mary is human, she is forever a virgin and only gave birth to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
  • copt-icboycopt-icboy
    All of the above are valid points, I just want to add one more.

    According to our othodox belief, she was born with the sin of Adam.  Our borther's the Catholics belive in the Immaculate conception of Virgin Mary, meaning she was born without the sin of Adam.  This is NOT TRUE!!! Otherwise, she wouldn't have said " My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God MY SAVIOR"

    Tradition also tells us that Saint Ann, Virgin Mary's mother, after giving birth to Virgin Mary, she brought her to the temple, St. Ann Got pregnant again with another Girl and named her Mary as well.  Later on, Mary The sister of Virgin Mary was Married to a man named Klopas and had 4 children, who are Christ's Cousines.  They would often be refered to as "His brothers".

    Just thought I would add these two points to clear things up a bit.
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    St Mary did not have kids after Jesus Christ for if she did they would have taken her to her home rather than St John the disciple of Jesus after the crucifixion or during the crucifixion.. that might just be one point

    Read St Mary in the Orthodox Concept book
    www.copticchurch.org/Texts/Spirituals/Vstmary.pdf
  • Amoussa01
    two words: NO WAY! Like everyone else mentioned she is of human nature like us. We DONT WORSHIP HER! We only ask for her interecessions. The only one we worship is the Trinity. She is not part of the Trinity. The catholics however, worship her, but we do not do that. Christ is part of the Trinity by the way...

    GB
    Tony
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic]

    The catholics however, worship her, but we do not do that.

    To the best of my knowledge, this is not true.  They ask for her intercessions just as we do.  They just view her as not having the stain of original sin (their teaching of the Immaculate Conception), which we strongly disagree with.
  • copt-icboycopt-icboy
    I agree they don't worship her, however to give her the title "co-redemptress" meaning she helped in the redemption process.  They are saying that through her suffering, seeing her only Son being crucified, that is part of the price of sin that was paid on our behalf.  This of course is NOT true as well.  Jesus was enough of a sacrifice and He did not need her help.

    Just thought I would clarify...
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic]

    however to give her the title "co-redemptress" meaning she helped in the redemption process.  They are saying that through her suffering, seeing her only Son being crucified, that is part of the price of sin that was paid on our behalf.

    Is that really the case?  I was aware that they did give her the title of co-redemptrix, but is it because of her own suffering?  I was under the impression it was because she bore the Word of God, and it was through her that the Word took flesh.  That is how she is the co-redemptrix.  Not so much in suffering while her Son bore crucifixion (which any mother would, seeing their own child in a similar state).
  • jmaziounjmazioun
    A lot of people think that the Catholic church gives Mary the title of 'co-redemptrix'. They actually don't and they are against giving her this title. This title has been given to St Mary by some of the fathers of the Catholic church, the Catholic church as a whole does not worship Mary neither does it call her co-redemptrix.

    God bless u all
    john
  • Unknown
    [quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5243.msg70355#msg70355 date=1177423678]
    Ever virgin = aey parthenos (like we say in omonogenees for example  ;) )

    Yes.. that's the one.. look, they both begin with a "P" - ( it was a common mistake and I did know this.. !)

    Saint Mary is PARTHENIA (EVER VIRGIN)
    and PANAGIA (EVER HOLY).

    She is not Divine.
    She is not of the divine nature, but COMPLETELY and wholly human, born of Saint Anne and Joachim.
    We ask for her intercessions. She intercedes for us, with the saints. SHe is above the Cherubim and Seraphim. She is higher than all the heavenly hosts, saints, and powers. But she is not divine. We do NOT worship her.

    Her Son Jesus Christ was Immaculate. He was born of the Holy Spirit. He is without sin, and His Divinity AND His Humanity were completely united.

    Saint Mary, although she died, her body ascended into heaven. It was the apostles who saw this. The Catholics AND Orthodox venerate her, and celebrate her holy assumption to heaven every year, around August 15th.



  • person55person55
    [quote author=Coptic boy link=topic=5243.msg70364#msg70364 date=1177429682]


    According to our othodox belief, she was born with the sin of Adam.  Our borther's the Catholics belive in the Immaculate conception of Virgin Mary, meaning she was born without the sin of Adam.  This is NOT TRUE!!! Otherwise, she wouldn't have said " My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God MY SAVIOR"



    why wouldn't she have said that if she was born without sin?

    and about the Catholics not praying to St. Mary... i go to a Catholic school and they have a prayer called the Hail Mary. if you are not familiar with it, it goes like this:
    Hail Mary,
    Full of Grace,
    The Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women,
    and blessed is the fruit
    of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary,
    Mother of God,
    pray for us sinners now,
    and at the hour of death.
    Amen.

    i believe this prayer is intended to be prayed to her. and many teachers in my school say that they pray to saints when they need help.

  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic]

    why wouldn't she have said that if she was born without sin?

    I guess the reasoning goes: if she did not bear the mark of the sin of Adam, then she would not be in need of salvation, and thus, why would she refer to God as her Saviour. 
  • Unknown
    Person55,
    Many persons get confused or disorientated when they hear the word "pray to" someone. In fact, in the Coptic Church, we too have our own version of "Hail Mary"; but we don't use the term "pray" to her. We "venerate her"; asking for her intercessions does not mean we worship her! She appeared in Egypt in 1969 and bowed before the cross, she would want us to do the same.

    The catholics don't worship saint mary either, NEITHER consider her as a co-redeemer. This is not true. It is true that they believe that she was born immaculate or that she was immaculate, but for me,what's essential is that they too believe in her assumption to heaven. It is not written in the Bible the story of what happened when she passed away, but we all believe her body was taken to heaven.

    [quote author=person55 link=topic=5243.msg70411#msg70411 date=1177535938]
    [quote author=Coptic boy link=topic=5243.msg70364#msg70364 date=1177429682]


    According to our othodox belief, she was born with the sin of Adam.  Our borther's the Catholics belive in the Immaculate conception of Virgin Mary, meaning she was born without the sin of Adam.  This is NOT TRUE!!! Otherwise, she wouldn't have said " My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God MY SAVIOR"



    why wouldn't she have said that if she was born without sin?

    and about the Catholics not praying to St. Mary... i go to a Catholic school and they have a prayer called the Hail Mary. if you are not familiar with it, it goes like this:
    Hail Mary,
    Full of Grace,
    The Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women,
    and blessed is the fruit
    of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary,
    Mother of God,
    pray for us sinners now,
    and at the hour of death.
    Amen.

    i believe this prayer is intended to be prayed to her. and many teachers in my school say that they pray to saints when they need help.


  • kokiiekokiie
    hmm.. Correct me if i'm wrong..[and i kow this isnt our topic, sorry] but i always thought that one of the reasons that the Protestant Church split away from the Catholic Church was because they worshiped St Mary.. So obviously the line between  "venerate" and "worship" must've been crossed.. right ?
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic]

    Luther incited the Protestant Reformation for a lot of reasons, and I believe veneration (which may have been misconstrued as worship) was one of them.  But I believe there were 98 others.  He did have a list of 99 points that he nailed to a church door.
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    Suprisingly enough Luther believed in her perpetual virginity, and was not against the veneration of St Mary.

    [She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).

    see also:
    http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.htm

    (I dont know how reliable this site is though, but i found such quotes on more than one site)
  • Anglican
    I think that Vassilios has guided us aright here.

    His Holiness, Pope Shenouda III has written:


    She is the mother of all of us, the lady of all of us, the pride of our kind, the queen at the right side of the King, the Virgin with perpetual virginity, the pure, the filled with grace, the saint Mary, the powerful and helpful compassionate mother, the mother of the Light, the mother of mercy and salvation, the true vine. This is the one whom the Church elevates over the rank of archangels, so that we say about her in her hymns and songs: O Mary, you have been raised above the cherubims, and have become higher than the seraphims, O Mary. Mary who was bred up in the temple, and lived the life of prayer and contemplation since her childhood, and who was the sacred vessel whom the Lord has chosen to come inside her.

    He also writes:

    She is the mother of God, in perpetual virginity. She is the Virgin who came to our country during the childhood of Christ, and inhabited our land for years, during which she sanctified it, and blessed it.........

    She is the Virgin who appeared in Zeitoun 32 years ago, and attracted to her the feelings of the crouds, with her light, her appearance, and her visit to us.........

    She is the Virgin who makes miracles in numerous places, where we celebrate feasts for her. The stories of her miracles are innumerable.....

    The Virgin is not a stranger to us; because she is profoundly assimilated with the feelings of Copts that come out from faith to special experience and emotion. How great an honor is it for our country and our Church, to be visited in past times by our Lady the Virgin! How great an honor is it that our Lady appeared on her domes many years ago! There is not a human being whom christians have loved so much

    The approach he takes seems in profound agreement with the one which our Church has always taken.

    In Christ,

    John
  • person55person55
    [quote author=vassilios link=topic=5243.msg70418#msg70418 date=1177577103]
    The catholics don't worship saint mary either,


    then i guess my whole school is misled!!!
  • Anglican
    It is an easy thing to be misled about.

    Protestants tend to mistake our own veneration of the blessed Theotokos for 'worship', so it is not surprising that the same thing is said about the Roman Catholics. But, like us, they venerate her, and would agree with HH Pope Shenouda's comments which I quote in my last posting.

    We need to be careful when engaging with other Christian Churches; centuries of division has created many myths about what others believe; there are enough causes for division without our adding to them.

    On the bright side, your school is now better informed!

    In Christ,

    John
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