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Stigmata?
Is Stigmata a Catholic rite (as my old Sunday School Teacher says)
or is it something also accepted by the COC, because my
grandmother has a book about a young girl who had it
God Bless
or is it something also accepted by the COC, because my
grandmother has a book about a young girl who had it
God Bless
Comments
If that's what you meant then no. Nobody is worthy of this.
Conclusion- The COC doesn't recognize this
P4m
PK
It is not a Catholic rite, although it is a phenomenon recognised by the Roman Catholics. The Orthodox Church has not recognised this, and, as has been stated, there are authorities in the Church who have written against it.
In Christ,
John
the Girl is a Coptic Egyptian Girl named Mariam and there are pictures of HH Pope Shenouda
wiping the blood off with tissues (Thats what haas me confused)
also what about the modern day Catholic People who have it
Its basically when a person gets marks similar to that of Christ, accompanied with continous bleeding
and the bleeding occurs at the wrists/hands, the feet, the sides (because Christ was nailed with
at the wrists feet and struck with the spear on teh sides)
This link documents it happening to a Syrian lady called Myrna Nazzour -->http://www.livingmiracles.net/Myrna.html
Its an AMAZING article, and even recounts the messages Myrna has had with Mary and Jesus.. You will all be astounded.
I've also attached a picture of Myrna meeting with Baba Shenouda not too long ago.
When they met they spoke for about 40 minutes, and Baba Shenouda asked for some holy oil off Myrna. The fact that our Patriarch would meet with Myrna indicates that he believes her stigmata is real.
Lastly, if anyone wants they can go here ---> http://web246m.dynamic-kunden.ch/maria/stigma.html and scroll halfway down to watch videos of Myrna during the stigmata.
Rabana maakum,
Matt
I think it should be noted that it doesnt matter what the Coptic Orthodox Church says about stigmata, its a fact that the Stigmata does happen.
The Church's position on the issue matters very much. Stigmatas can be psychosomatic, self-inflicted (i.e. fake), or caused by the powers of the air (demons). The Church's position is absolutely essential in avoiding spiritual delusion.
[quote author=matt88 link=topic=5435.msg72481#msg72481 date=1181731413]
I think it should be noted that it doesnt matter what the Coptic Orthodox Church says about stigmata, its a fact that the Stigmata does happen.
The Church's position on the issue matters very much. Stigmatas can be psychosomatic, self-inflicted (i.e. fake), or caused by the powers of the air (demons). The Church's position is absolutely essential in avoiding spiritual delusion.
You might be right, but personally i cant agree. I know of cases (Padro Pio and Myrna Nazzour etc) and i accept them as cases of stigmata, in the exact same way i believe in miracles by Baba Kyrillos. I know, of courses, about the differences between the churches, and every Christian church has Christ as is essence. Therefore, to me, I believe its possible for a Catholic priest to peform miracles in the same way our Coptic ones have. Thats not to say i would pay more attention to non-Coptic matters (I wouldnt). But i certainly believe in the stigmata by Padro Pio and Myrna Nazzour, and the myriad of miracles by Charbel Maklouf. Lastly, as i noted earlier, it seems to me that the rapport developed between Myrna Nazzour and Baba Shenouda would seem to indicate that Baba Shenouda accepts her stigmata as a genuine occurrence.
Rabana maakum,
Matt
Here is the opinion from the Coptic Orthodox Diocese of the Southern USA concerning the stigmata phenomena:
Stigmata is a phenomenon foreign to the Orthodox experience and, as such, the Church has no official position towards it. Such things may be signs from God, or they could be deceptions or distractions from the devil. The best thing is to remain focussed on Christ and not give much heed to these phenomena. In the end what matters above everything is God and God alone. Therefore we should not allow any disgracers to shift our focus.
I read that scientists are inclined to believe that the stigmata are connected with nervous or cataleptic hysteria.
- HG Bishop Youssef
HH Pope Shenouda III meets every day with different peoples who are from different background and faith, ranging from Sheik AL Azhar to a leader of a certain church. So it is not a matter of importance if HH had met with this lady you mentioned, do you know what did HH tell her?!!!!1 A meeting dose not mean approving an idea or faith.
H.H. Pople Shenouda III was asked about incidents where an icon would drip oil or blood. Sometimes these incidents are categorized as miracles and sometimes not. How would they differ?
H.H. answered by saying something to the following effect:
We have to question the reasoning behind a miracle. If they are during a time of weakness in faith and people are away from the church, then they are miracles. If they take place during time of persecution or heresy, they are signs from God.
But, if they end up distracting us from our focus, then they very well maybe the work of the devil.
So, it is not the incident in of itself, its more the reason or effect of the incident that should be considered and that is done on a case by case basis not generalized over a type of event or incident.
Just thought I would share....
Thank you for sharing that with us. As always, His Holiness shows the wisdom for which he is famed - and we would do well to heed him.
We do not deny it might happen, but neither do we take a position on it other than than adopted by HH Pope Shenouda.
In Christ,
John
Dear matt88,
Here is the opinion from the Coptic Orthodox Diocese of the Southern USA concerning the stigmata phenomena:
Stigmata is a phenomenon foreign to the Orthodox experience and, as such, the Church has no official position towards it. Such things may be signs from God, or they could be deceptions or distractions from the devil. The best thing is to remain focussed on Christ and not give much heed to these phenomena. In the end what matters above everything is God and God alone. Therefore we should not allow any disgracers to shift our focus.
I read that scientists are inclined to believe that the stigmata are connected with nervous or cataleptic hysteria.
- HG Bishop Youssef
HH Pope Shenouda III meets every day with different peoples who are from different background and faith, ranging from Sheik AL Azhar to a leader of a certain church. So it is not a matter of importance if HH had met with this lady you mentioned, do you know what did HH tell her?!!!!1 A meeting dose not mean approving an idea or faith.
Thanks Safaa for letting me know of the Church's official position. I personally dont agee with the last part (scientists belief in what causes stigmata - scientists are trained to be skeptical so their position on miracles in general is that they dont happen).
Also, i should have commented that when Myrna Nazzour met Baba Shenouda their meeting was scheduled to last 5 minutes, though they ended up speaking for 40 minutes and at the end of the meeting Baba Shenouda asked for Myrna's blessing, and holy oil. I dare say Baba Shenouda would never ask for the blessing of Sheikh Tantawi or even ordinary laymen.
Overall though, as you said, the most important thing for us is to maintain Christ as our very central focus and not be distracted my miracles, healings, apparitions, stigmatas etc.
i love this tropic and personally i take matt'z stance on it.
In the case of HH's meeting with Myrna Nazzour he is correct in what he has said. Although it is important that we note that His Holiness took "Holy Oil" from Myrna's hands. He did not take the blessings or acknowledge the stigmata. The church does believe in "holy oil" im sure we all kn0w this.
I just thought that this is an important point we must make.
Oil not blood!
god bless and Rabena Maa Gameakum
Remi