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A question I had on another thread
This is a question I had on desertnurse's thread, "Deacons". Since he told me to create a thread for it and ask, Here it goes. ;D
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5513.msg74004#msg74004 date=1184035323]
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Now, I'm not sure I agree with the statement that ' a man lusts after a woman, his sinful desire has the possibility of being corrected, i.e., he may, through spiritual guidance, discover he can, in fact, marry that woman, sanctfy his union and channel his desires properly in love.' A relationship that has its foundation based on sin (i.e. lust) is, in my opinion, doomed to fail. There is a difference between lusting after a woman and being sexually attracted to one. It is important that one be spiritually as well as physically attracted to their future spouse, but that does not mean one should lust after them. Lust is a sin whether it be before marriage (for their potential spouse) or while one is married (for their spouse).
[/quote]
On the highlighted part, I have a question. Is it a sin to look at a woman and be attracted to her? I mean, just waking down the street and you see a woman and sexually attracted?
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5513.msg74004#msg74004 date=1184035323]
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Now, I'm not sure I agree with the statement that ' a man lusts after a woman, his sinful desire has the possibility of being corrected, i.e., he may, through spiritual guidance, discover he can, in fact, marry that woman, sanctfy his union and channel his desires properly in love.' A relationship that has its foundation based on sin (i.e. lust) is, in my opinion, doomed to fail. There is a difference between lusting after a woman and being sexually attracted to one. It is important that one be spiritually as well as physically attracted to their future spouse, but that does not mean one should lust after them. Lust is a sin whether it be before marriage (for their potential spouse) or while one is married (for their spouse).
[/quote]
On the highlighted part, I have a question. Is it a sin to look at a woman and be attracted to her? I mean, just waking down the street and you see a woman and sexually attracted?
Comments
No, it is not a sin to be attracted to a woman. If it were, then all married couples and engaged couples and dating couples would be sinning. I'm not sure how often you walk down the street and are sexually attracted to a woman. Granted, you may notice that they are physically attractive, but I think that is a far cry from being sexually attracted to them. One thing to discern between is lusting after a woman and being sexually attracted to one. Husbands are sexually attracted to their wives, but they do not lust after their wives. Lust occurs when you objectify something and they cease being a what they are. In the case of women, when you lust after a woman, you no longer view her as a person, created in God's image. You view her as an object who's sole purpose is to fulfill whatever sexual (or otherwise) fantasy you may have. This is what Christ warns us against when He says that if we look at a woman and lust after her in our heart, we have committed adultery with her. She stops being a person and becomes an object of desire. Once that desire is fulfilled, she is discarded. This is not how we are to treat God's image.
What is the difference? Is it not the case that, by and large, sexual attraction is based on physical attraction?
And when you claim "[husbands] do not lust after their wives," how do you explain rape in marriage? Is that simply (acceptable) "sexual" attraction, or is that lust, in your opinion?
Kind regards,
M
For me, when I speak of being 'physically' attracted to another person, it's about admiring their physical features. That is to say, how they look. For instance, I find Jessica Alba to be physically attractive. However, that does not mean I want to jump into bed with her. Nor does it mean that I wish to pursue a relationship with her to find out whether she would make a fit wife so that we could get married. Furthermore, I see nothing wrong with acknowledging that certain women are physically attractive. Sexual attraction is possible, in my opinion, after you've gotten to know a person of the opposite sex and found that you are compatible to settle down and have a family. It is an important component in a healthy marriage as well. Physical attraction can (but doesn't necessarily) lead to sexual attraction. Physical attraction can also (but not necessarily) lead to lust as well.
As for my comment that '[husbands] do not lust after their wives', you are quite correct and please allow me to correct myself. That statement should read '[husbands] should not lust after their wives'.
Just to be clear, though, I believe there is a failure in this discussion so far to accurately use words to refer to what we really mean.
"Attraction" is synonymous with "allurement" and "fascination". It hinges upon one being "drawn" to someone or something.
Your attraction, as you call it, towards Jessica Alba, with respect, should be appropriately termed "admiration".
Going on what you have said then, it would seem you are not, in fact, "attracted" to Jessica Alba; rather, you "admire" her features, in a similar sense you might admire say, a rose. I don't believe you or I could ever be "attracted" to a rose.
I apologise if I seem pedantic, but I am of the opinion it is an important distinction that should be made.
Kind regards,
M
I believe that you and I are, in effect, saying the same thing, although, for some reason, a certain amount of unnecessary word-play is occurring.
It is beyond me as to how you can assert one can be attracted to a rose in the same context this discussion is being held and in which I made my earlier comments, i.e., physical and sexual attraction.
The interdependence you believe exists between attraction and admiration, as exhibited in your two-step process, is not convincing. And as an aside, I would think one would usually admire someone first before they could be attracted to them. But anyway...
To make my point a little clearer, let's say, instead of having used a rose in my example, I chose a puppy dog or a fine-crafted dining table.
If I admire either one of those two things, is it then possible to say I am 'attracted' to them, regardless of how much I might admire their features? Unless, of course, there is something rather strange with me (the admirer), I think it is safe to assume the answer would, nay, should, be an emphatic 'no'.
Hence, I reiterate: I do not understand how you could say one could ever be attracted to a rose. You might admire it to the nth degree, but become "attracted" to it, or allured or fascinated by it, in the context of this discussion? Surely not.
In any case, I think we've beaten this thing to death. I propose we now let others have a go, if they wish. I am interested in what they might have to say.
Kind regards,
M
I am using your 'definition' of attraction to explain how one can be attracted to a non-human entity. You defined it as being 'drawn to someone or something'. Thus, I still stand by my statements above. Does that somehow extend to one being physically or sexually attracted to these non-human objects? I think the answer to that is self apparent. There are different types and levels of attraction which is why sometimes the type of attraction is qualified by a preceding adjective (be it the adjective physical or sexual). Perhaps a little more thought on your part is in order.
dictionary says:
attraction: the force by which one object attracts another
admire: appreciation
MIY says is says admire than attract
Cephas says attract then admire
does it really matter? no i dont think so.........
all in all i agree 100% with KOKO he has made a number of valid points
ps:onli coz its his bday 2dai....
[move]HAPPY BIRTHDAY Κηφᾶς!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/move]
Awwwww, shucks you guys. You shouldn't have. It's a shame there isn't a smiley that blushes, but I guess this one will have to suffice: ;D.
I am happy for you to have the last word.
As for your last sentence - noted, but not appreciated. What you implied is both pretentious and somewhat offensive.
Happy birthday,
M
[quote author=MIY link=topic=5576.msg74739#msg74739 date=1185152872]
Happy birthday,
Thank you kindly.
You know the couencidence is??? My birthday is tommorow July the 24th!! ;D ;D
[glow=blue,2,300]HAPPY BDAY 2 U[/glow]
[glow=purple,2,300]HAPPY BDAY 2 HAILEMIKAEL[/glow]
[glow=blue,2,300]HAPPY BDAY 2 U[/glow]
[glow=purple,2,300]HIP HIP[/glow]
[glow=blue,2,300]HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!![/glow][/center]
[glow=pink,2,300]:) :) :) :) :) :)[/glow]
[glow=purple,2,300][shadow=black,left]HAPPY 19th BUDDIE[/shadow][/glow][/center]
[center]May u have a FAB-U-LOUS day blessed with many memories ;)
God bless n take care
FA!![/[/center]
Happy Birthday Hailemikael. May your day be filled with God's love, joy and peace.
kerestina , wow I did not expect this kind of enthusiasm from here. Thanks a lot. :) :D
My second question is: Is masturbating a sin? Is waisting your seeds a sin? Like using condom?
Thanks!
Not sure what sort of answer you were looking for, but no, I did not say that sexual attraction was inherently sinful. Lust is though. Anyway, regarding your other questions: Yes. It is a way of 'relieving' (if you will) your sexual lusts and desires. It is a form of self-gratification which is not condoned by the Church. Wasting your seed in masturbating is a sin. Using a condom, as far as I know, isn't. The Church is not against birth control (as far as I know).
I read that it is not wrong to go walking in the street and be attracted to a woman. This is a tricky thing to say because if you say its not wrong at all i disagree. If you look at a woman and you admire her thinking wow what a wonderful creation by God than there is no problem, but if you think about having sex with her than that is the definition of lust and it is definately a sin. So you have to be very aware of the way you are attracted to her.
Please correct me if im wrong
im sorry to jump from this topic but i wanted to comment something that was originally said.
I read that it is not wrong to go walking in the street and be attracted to a woman. This is a tricky thing to say because if you say its not wrong at all i disagree. If you look at a woman and you admire her thinking wow what a wonderful creation by God than there is no problem, but if you think about having sex with her than that is the definition of lust and it is definately a sin. So you have to be very aware of the way you are attracted to her.
Please correct me if im wrong
That's a very good question, Mina2008. I believe in what you said too.
Read here about the Seven deadly sins. Lust is listed as one. But it's wikipedia, so it's very subjective and we have to be careful in how we interpret it.
And here is a long summary of sin I found in Catholic Encyclopedia.
Tomorrow I will point the facts that I think are important for this thread and for the questions raised and discussed here.
I have to do a little homework and go to bed now. :D ;D
It's been long time since he told me, and i really want to know too! ;D
God bless.
it's ok to admire someones beauty and he said 'wanting' is a human nature.... but if it is bad... then we should turn back..
So, I'm going to try to conclude, at least until someone tells me something difference, that it isn't bad to admire a girls beauty and her features. But my abouna also said that if we admire a girls beauty, that doesn't mean that we should diminish a girls' features because then we are diminishing the Creater (God). We should not say someone is ugly or what not.
Peace!
Happy Debre Tabour holiday! everyone... don't know if ya'll celebrate it.... but Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo church celebrates it. It is the day Jesus revealed Himself to His disciples... at the mountain... where Moses and Elias came back from the dead... ;D ;D ;D :)