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The Stability of our Church?
I read a article from Al Ahram Newspaper (Eng edition)
and i was very distrubed by the article but mostly by this quote:
Heres the whole article if you guys are interested
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/834/eg8.htm
and i was very distrubed by the article but mostly by this quote:
Can anyone verify this???This is not the first incident of the Orthodox Church being mired in internal rifts. Pope Shenouda has reportedly been in conflict with many bishops nationwide. The disputes led to the unprecedented resignation of the bishop of Mehalla Al-Kobra and the expulsion of the bishops of Luxor and Abu Tesht. The bishop of Samalout has not attended meetings of the holy Synod for 20 years while bishop of Manfalout has lost authority over half his parish, which is now affiliated to Pope Shenouda.
Heres the whole article if you guys are interested
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/834/eg8.htm
Comments
It's a newspaper.. rumor not fact.
Even if there were 'internal rifts' within the Church, why should that be of any concern? We are human after all, and thus fallible. It should be no surprise that there may be a clash of egos between members in the hierarchy. The 'stability' of the Church is in no way threatened, however, because the Church is founded on the Rock of Christ. He is unshakable, and thus, any sorts of disagreements, fights or what have you, will not weaken the Church by any means. Do you actually think there were no 'internal rifts' throughout the history of the Church? And yet, 2000 years on, the Church still stands.
The situation with H G Bishop Morcos and the others, I am not sure. I have no information on this.
My opinion is this: The Coptic Church will prevail, but life would be easier if we left politicians to politics.
Κηφᾶς is surely correct in what he says?
Although the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, it is inhabited by sinners, and why are we surprised that from time to time there are problems - or that newspapers exaggerate them?
In Christ,
Anglian
it's like all the media shows that have priests debating with those who are not effected what what they talk about...
I read a article from Al Ahram Newspaper (Eng edition)
and i was very distrubed by the article but mostly by this quote: Can anyone verify this???
Heres the whole article if you guys are interested
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/834/eg8.htm
Brother,
This is a newspaper and only a newspaper, just as Hizz_chiilld perfectly said. Most newspapers right false claims to either get one of two things:
1) Fame (indeed they won it if it made it on a post on Tasbeha.org)
2) Money (want people to buy that newspaper of that date and then eventually subscribe to it to make money off you)
Newspapers want attention and money so that they can even get more of each. If anybody wants to correct me, feel free.
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Even if there were 'internal rifts' within the Church, why should that be of any concern? ........ And yet, 2000 years on, the Church still stands.
This is the best answer I have ever read in this topic.
I would like also to add that St. Paul did not agree with St. Mark about certain aspects and accordingly Paul preached in Rome and Mark in Egypt. Both have done a wonderful job and became the cornerstones of Christianity all around the world along with the rest of the apostles. Nothing happened to the church.
Do not worry about who fights with who or which bishop is right and which is wrong. Every one has a job to do in God's plan whether good or bad.
I wouldn't take either very seriously. The Church was here long before either - and will outlive them.
In Christ,
Anglian
Come now, Wikipedia isn't all bad. Lord knows it has been very useful to me when it comes to getting a quick overview on particular subjects. :D
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Come now, Wikipedia isn't all bad. Lord knows it has been very useful to me when it comes to getting a quick overview on particular subjects. :D
No. Wikipedia is very dangerous. There are some very incorrect things in there. I think the reason being is that any tom dick and harry can add his / her entry in there.
Be careful mister!
Fret not. I would never use Wiki as a source in writing a term paper, or in my Masters thesis. But again, to get a broad overview on a topic, it is not in the least bit dangerous. As long as you find a credible source that backs up the information, you're all set.
My advice is " do not listen to all these rubbish. Keep Christ in your heart and do not be distracted by what you hear or what you read. Read the positive stuff not the distructive ones."
To me, and I stress to me (for I am weak); as a staunch advocate of literacy and logic, to restrict my pool of knowledge as selectively as suggested makes me feel as if I am shrinking from a threat. And I see that threat as a "sort of hidden knowledge or innate fear" that I may be wrong about faith. That is why I persist to be afloat on these issues.
Are the owners of AL-AHRAM Christians or Muslims? And are they mainstream media in the Middle East or independant?
Currently the Muslims would like to discredit Coptic Christianity in the eyes of the public and give it more of a human side. This could be the onslaught by the Islamic Brotherhood.
Questions:
Are the owners of AL-AHRAM Christians or Muslims? And are they mainstream media in the Middle East or independant?
Currently the Muslims would like to discredit Coptic Christianity in the eyes of the public and give it more of a human side. This could be the onslaught by the Islamic Brotherhood.
They certainly aren't Copts. As you say, there are many Islamists who would like to discredit the Church - well, they've had more than a thousand years and it hasn't worked - nor will it now. We have His assurance that the gates of Hades will not prevail against His Church.
In Christ,
Anglian
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Even if there were 'internal rifts' within the Church, why should that be of any concern? We are human after all, and thus fallible. It should be no surprise that there may be a clash of egos between members in the hierarchy. [quote author=Anglian link=topic=5748.msg76799#msg76799 date=1189614269]
Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
Κηφᾶς is surely correct in what he says?
Although the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, it is inhabited by sinners, and why are we surprised that from time to time there are problems - or that newspapers exaggerate them?
In Christ,
Anglian
Hello:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Although we are sinners, we can never justify our sins. We can never justify hurting people or turning people away from church either directly or indirectly. This topic doesn't just relate to clergy members, but to all members of the church.
We always talk about how weak we all are, which is true to some extent, but what we seem to forget is how strong we actually are. We are all strong enough to say "NO" to satan. You can find many good examples of this by reading the Life of Saint Antony. Saint Antony was attacked not just by one demon but by several. Imagine living in the desert and being attacked by multiple demons waiting to try and make you fall into sin. That was not a pretty sight at all.
It is one thing to admit we are sinners, but it becomes a whole new deal when we justify our sins because of our human nature.
I would like to share a nice quote with all of you.
"The devils cannot do anything against us without God's permission. But with God's permission they are powerful. All wickedness, all the passions are inspired by them. But listen: God allows them to suggest sin to a person, but they cannot force him to do it. We ourselves are responsible for accepting or rejecting their seductive suggestions" (John Damascene, The Orthodox Faith, 2, 4).
After reading that, I realized how much control I have over my sins. God helps us in every way possible, but we need to realize that we will need to fight our own battles against our own demons. It's a battle worth fighting.
If we trace the impact of what effect our sins have on others, we will find that we not only hurt ourselves and others but we hurt God. If we have younger brothers or sisters, we hurt them by the negative examples we set forth. If we have children, we hurt them because sin has a way of trickling down. Our negative habits, becomes our children's negative habits.
We should never justify our weak human nature for any sin. If there are problems, God always has a solution. We don't need to hurt one another to solve those problems.
God Bless
In Christ,
Anglian
Allow me to echo what John has said. Neither of us has justified anything. On the contrary, we have pointed out the fallibility of man which can (and has) caused rifts in the Church. Does that make it right? Certainly not. It is a reality though, something we all have to acknowledge. Our goal is to strive to be like Christ, He is our role-model. He taught us to crucify the self and that is the ideal we all work towards. We will stumble along the way and we will let our egos get the better of us. Pointing this out is not justifying it, it is merely addressing the issue.
"Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." 2 Peter 1:4
So Dr. Bebawy has said that we participate in the essence of God, we actually partake of the nature of God and become divine... It is something like the New Age Religion that has come up nowadays...
The truth is that we do not participate in the essence of God but only his energies... In other words we work with God in the divine plan. Even these energies do not become ours, so how can we say we partake of the essence? If anyone has any questions on this topic feel free to ask...
While I have personally not read what Dr. Bebawy has written, a friend of mine has. We have talked about the controversy surrounding Dr. Bebawy and it would seem that there is nothing unorthodox about his writings regarding Theosis. My friend (who is far more knowledgeable than I) went so far as to say that if one were to hold up St. Athanasius the Great's writings and Dr. Bebawy's, they would be essentially the same.