Hi Copts (and Coptessess),
I was having a chat (AGAIN!) with muslims, and they asked me about my faith. They said that in Christianity, we do not respect women.
I said :"huh!! U must be joking? Tell me where we do not respect women?".
Then they came out with this verse from Deutronomy, but they read it in Arabic. It says that if a woman has her period she is "NAJESSAH" (which means filthy).
I said.. " no .. in the english, it means UNCLEAN, why does the arabic have NAJESSAH (filthy) as a translation? This is therefore not a good translation".
They said :"Its a Christian Bible, and it is how it is translated".
Can someone check for me in the arabic bible: Are women really filthy in arabic and yet "unclean" in English?? If that's the case, God save the Queen!!
Then they said :"Why did saint paul mention that women should SHUT UP in church". Well, I have no idea.
Can someone just give me good (bible referenced) answers for these questions??
Thanks
Comments
Arabic is my first knowledge, and I can affirm that "najessa" in this sense means unclean as you right said. As much as any language does have many meanings for one word, Arabic is no exception, and by the way: God's people were full of "najassa" (= uncleanliness), as the Bible says, but God still accepted them back every time they repented, just because they became clean again. How much more do we respect women then, when God accepts us all the unclean. For sure, Muslims wouldn't understand a word of that, because it is all about symbolism, and they are ignorant in that sense unfortunately (or fortunately).
Giving you Biblical references, I can't, due to lack of knowledge. But generally, these arguments don't appeal to me, as they do not build at all.
God bless you and mention us in your prayers
But I want to understand for me.
So, In arabic , it says "Najessah"; but why did they translate it to meaning "filthy"?
Does "najessah" mean filthy or "unclean"??
As I told you it has got several meanings, but the meaning that I believe the Bible meant is "unclean". However, in their book they use that word to determine if someone, or something is filthy, because they don't believe in cleanliness and uncleanliness, and you can see that for yourself :).
I hope that clears it up a bit.
God bless you and pray for us a lot
Then they said :"Why did saint paul mention that women should SHUT UP in church". Well, I have no idea.
Everyone should refrain from speaking in church, both men and women. The only exceptions are those men who have been ordained as Bishops, priests, deacons, or readers.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5767.msg77171#msg77171 date=1190191082]
Then they said :"Why did saint paul mention that women should SHUT UP in church". Well, I have no idea.
Everyone should refrain from speaking in church, both men and women. The only exceptions are those men who have been ordained as Bishops, priests, deacons, or readers.
OK.. but why didnt he mention that: "Both of u just shut up in Church" - why single out women?
OK.. but why didnt he mention that: "Both of u just shut up in Church" - why single out women?
If the church he was writing to was anything like mine, it was the women that needed reminding :P
On the point of being "unclean", note that the exact same expression is used to describe men who have had a discharge (see Leviticus 15 for example).
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5767.msg77183#msg77183 date=1190210821]
OK.. but why didnt he mention that: "Both of u just shut up in Church" - why single out women?
If the church he was writing to was anything like mine, it was the women that needed reminding :P
On the point of being "unclean", note that the exact same expression is used to describe men who have had a discharge (see Leviticus 15 for example).
Yeah.. same here.. Coptic Egyptian women in France are so noisy. We should introduce tasering.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5767.msg77183#msg77183 date=1190210821]
OK.. but why didnt he mention that: "Both of u just shut up in Church" - why single out women?
If the church he was writing to was anything like mine, it was the women that needed reminding :P
On the point of being "unclean", note that the exact same expression is used to describe men who have had a discharge (see Leviticus 15 for example).
Yeah, I told them that! I said : If it says about the woman she is najessah, (even though this is not the correct translation), then BE SURE that it says the same thing about the man if he has a discharge.
But... the ONLY problem is: I didnt know how to explain "discharge" in arabic. It was very funny...
hahahha
I tried to explain.. and they wouldnt let me speak in English... but.. at the end they got the picture.
you must know that , unfortunately , the arabic translation of the Bible isn't acuurate in many places.
About what St.Paul said ..Orthodox11 is right , i was told that St.Paul mentioned the women particulary because there were some noble women who tried to take control over the church , but in general no one is allowed to talk.
I also take issue about reading the Law of Moses. Our religion professes that the fulfillment of the Law is shown by Christ. To understand the Law properly, it's spirit and not just the letter, it must always be in the mind of the seeker the figure of Christ. That is what I believe, and I think belies the recommendation to the seeker to read the NT before the OT. For knowing the spirit of the Law, we can begin to decipher it.
Then they said :"Why did saint paul mention that women should SHUT UP in church". Well, I have no idea.
That was because at that time women wer not educated so it states that when they went home they can ask. This was done so that women who had a lot of questions wouldn't disturb the prayer.
2-To translate a certain text from one language to the other would be hard. A lot of words are present in one language but absent in another. I know there could have been alternatives to NAGESA but it might have been the best suiting one. Anyway it was not put there to be sexist and mean to women. God is not mean or horrible and God doesn't separate between genders.
Pray 4 me
Kirolos
[quote author=smile4ever link=topic=5767.msg78742#msg78742 date=1193164911]
yes...
So "Najessa" means filthy??
yes