i don't think LostEgPrincess meant too much eating, i think she was talking about general eating correct me if i am wrong lostegprincess (nice name by the way ;))
oh to add to that, people who dont eat like anorexic people who think theyr fat and actually are not and dont eat.. they dont glorfiy God because theyr not happy with what they have.. theyr displaeased with what God gave them
It's not feeding the earthly body, but the holy spirit in you. That's what he cares for, not the earthly body, after all, you eat to live, not live to eat.
I read all what written about dance. One must ask himself is it suitable and proper and keep my mind without disturb ance. Is that what I feel? Does this make me a good member in the body of Christ? Does that make me not ashamed when my sister do that, even one cann't control himself? One must be severe with himself and not make excuses.
That's true, and I mentioned that before. I f God were watching you and you wouldn't be ashamed, keep on going. If you were to stop what you were doing and avoid God's glance, that's when you know you're doing something wrong.
[quote author=sleepymusician link=board=1;threadid=325;start=60#msg7788 date=1090803082] It's not feeding the earthly body, but the holy spirit in you. That's what he cares for, not the earthly body, after all, you eat to live, not live to eat.
if dance were part of ur extracurricular activities, then its perfectly fine.. eating is imp to care for the Body God gave u.. mind u there r verses in the Bible that talk about eatign right.. and not being filled with drink .. etc.. so thats first thing.. secondly, if tbe dancing one practices does not glorify God.. its just like doing drugs.. which harm ur body.. then definitely dont do it..
get it?
some dance is good, some r bad.. just like some food r good while soem r bad.. depends on ur view of good and bad.. which comes from ur beliefs and ur own mentality..and society of course which influence us greatly...
unconditional_love, the dances that we do for fun aren't glorifying God, but they aren't hurting him or us either. It's like excercising. That doesn't glorify God, and neither does it tarnish his love for us. Not everything is done to glorify God. There are things out there that don't glorify god, but they don't hurt him either. This can be considered one of them.
unconditional_love, the dances that we do for fun aren't glorifying God, but they aren't hurting him or us either. It's like excercising. That doesn't glorify God, and neither does it tarnish his love for us. Not everything is done to glorify God. There are things out there that don't glorify god, but they don't hurt him either. This can be considered one of them.
sleepy
when we dance for fun, but we dont glorify God, how is that not hurting him? ofcourse it is! u guys, im not gonna get overanalytical again and say how exercising does glorify God cause ur keeping the body He gifted u with healthy, and no, nothing will ever tarnish his love for us... but still, things either do or dont glorify God Its like a black and white section... theres no gray in between
if ur being does not glorify God then ur nothing..period.
unless u can see that what ur doign DOES NOT glorify God in any way, then u should stop... theres nothign called it doesnt glorify Him and doesnt hurt Him either.. this is called the grey spot.. but u see.. in Christianity, there is no grey.. either black or white.
If I'm at home, and I start dancing to a cool song I love, but I'm not making anyone fall into sin, and neither am I doing it for anyone for myself, question 1: how am I glorifying god? question 2: how am i not glorifying god?
[quote author=unconditional_love link=board=1;threadid=325;start=60#msg7821 date=1090811924] im sorry id have to diagree with u on this one..
if ur being does not glorify God then ur nothing..period.
unless u can see that what ur doign DOES NOT glorify God in any way, then u should stop... theres nothign called it doesnt glorify Him and doesnt hurt Him either.. this is called the grey spot.. but u see.. in Christianity, there is no grey.. either black or white.
wow... first off: this is the freakiest thread thus far lol now to answer ur questions sleepy how are u glorifying God? ur not.... thats the point im sure u know the verse: All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 1 Corinthians 10:23 ;);) n thats what we should abide by now how are u not glorifying God? simply because dancing does not edify..... right? and it's not exactly helpful n plz, i dont wanna c a thousand posts as to how it's helpful in exercising, arts, etc... i'm being realistic here n not talking about ballet or tap or whatever...
Yes, but nothing wrong is coming out of simply hearing a song, listening to it, and dancing to it because it moves you. Is it because it doesn't "edify" that automatically, it's wrong? I'm so confused.... ???
no.. since it doesn't edify.. all that means is that it doesn't build up.. meaning that it wastes ur time.. and time is precious cuz u don't know how long you have on this earth.
That's true, we can't waste our time on earth because we don't know how much we have of it but then again, aren't we also allowed to have a little fun? I mean god says that he wishes us to be like little children in their innocence and all, but they also play and are care-free, aren't we allowed just the same?
i agree with sleepy. besides, if there no wrongin intentions and its in an appropriate envirnoment, wats the problem.
say im having an all girls party (sorry guys ur not invited :-\) and i decide to put music on and we start dancing to it, is that a problem? i dont think so. and i dont see any logic if it is wrong.
I hear everyone who has spoken thus far but I strongly feel people are looking far too deeply into the dancing issue.
Not attacking anyone, but I'd like to comment in general, stating my thoughts. I have long kept my mouth shut about dancing because it's a surefire way to start a riot in Coptic churches.
I agree with stevey820's arguments about dancing in general. I think these are especially valid in situations like wedding receptions and parties, whether families and friends. I won't go into wedding reception arena because it's been discussed and argued to death. (And hopefully no one will pick up on it in a coming post. ;)) I agree with everyone else who likes to be cautious and non-complacent in their spiritual lives, thinking about every action and whether it will add or subtract from their spiritual stature.
Having said all that, I'd like to stop talking about exceptions and more about the concept of dancing. Firstly, without waxing philosophical, our God is the God of music and rhythm. He values music and rhythm, and if you look at (I think) 1 Chronicles, you'll see the degree to which King David went to ensure that music and dance were done properly in Jewish liturgical worship. So there is a definite component of dance and music there. Secondly, our God gave us souls and spirits that are capable of responding to things that touch us. So, a good love song or even just a powerful hip-hop track with a complex, intelligent beat can stir us.
Music and dance then are Siamesed together and I don't think we can ever separate them. To deny the fact that we won't be moved or 'aroused' by music is denying the fact that we are specially crafted humans by God. Also, to say that all music, if it evens gets me thinking about dancing, is sinful would also be far too extreme. I perceive that when people talk about dancing nowadays in Coptic circles, they're referring to one or more of the following:
Also, not all dancing is sensual. Some are very, but not. Someone rightly pointed out that churches in South Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa in general incorporate a lot of dancing in their worship. Even African Orthodox Churches do it and they have done it during the Holy Liturgy. I have experienced many of these liturgies and I'd be a hardened loser to say in all my pride that their dancing is wrong. Their hearts and their eyes only attest that they're truly glorifying God. However, we cannot apply dancing in all worship because we don't have that cultural or heritage license.
Call me weird, but when I dance, I dance to the music and not to the person in front or behind me. Yes, if an attractive girl is swaying her hips in front of me, I'd be a liar if I said I don't notice. But I got up to dance not because I want to impress that girl or get close to her - I got up to dance to dance! If that girl is causing my eyes or my passions a stir, it's my responsibility to turn around (preferably elegantly and not too obviously) and slide to somewhere else. We often pick on those who instigate, but it's also up to the person being affected to do something - like flee as St. James said.
Dancing to house or electronica is pretty much a solitary thing. If you're moshing at a rock concert, it's the same thing. So at the end of the day, dancing is not always a communal thing. Dancing is foremost an expression of your response to the music you're listening to. We can't just reduce dance down to an act deplorable as fornication or gluttony. If we're going to put a negative label on any kind of infectious dance or rhythm, I think (in own my view) we're putting a negative label on how the Trinity works. The Trinity works in harmony, in rhythm and in peace. If we say any kind of rhythm is bad, then it's going too far. Our bodies function on rhythms, nature seems to be running on some kind of God-ordained rhythm. We can't just escape rhythm altogether and say 'it incites lust'.
I think the key to all of this is, again, our intentions and knowing ourselves. In Christian settings or places where there are others involved, oh yes, if we do anything less than what the Bible says about stumbling blocks or hurting others, then we're not being faithful Christians. In all other counts though, we can't use the same arguments or apply the same reasoning.
I have read over this page and i still dont understand. So Dancing kind of makes you weaker and desire things?/? or something of that sort or thats wat i got out of this page. :-\I NEED HELP I guess you can also consider T.V. like Dancing because it gets you off guard. But waht if you dance but are not attracted to.... ^ |
just because herodius did it and got wat she wanted. Does taht go for everyone?
[quote author=markosphillips link=board=1;threadid=325;start=90#msg8347 date=1091674429] I have read over this page and i still dont understand. So Dancing kind of makes you weaker and desire things?/? or something of that sort or thats wat i got out of this page. :-\I NEED HELP I guess you can also consider T.V. like Dancing because it gets you off guard. But waht if you dance but are not attracted to.... ^ |
just because herodius did it and got wat she wanted. Does taht go for everyone?
please help me...... A very confused soul
Anonyamos
Hi markosphillips,
The issues with dancing are intent.
For example, how would you feel if you went to a club and started to dance with someone of the same sex? That would feel very strange because it almost always something you do with a member of the opposite sex. It is for that reason that we have to realise that there is more to dancing that it just being a form of recreation. This is not to say that all dancing is bad but the dancing that people do in night club is not a very chaste pass time...
If your talking about something like greek dancing which isn't done with a paticular sex then you know the intention is different. This is why we can do it.
Comments
correct me if i am wrong lostegprincess (nice name by the way ;))
hence eating DOES glorify God.
sleepy
I read all what written about dance. One must ask himself
is it suitable and proper and keep my mind without disturb
ance. Is that what I feel? Does this make me a good
member in the body of Christ? Does that make me not
ashamed when my sister do that, even one cann't control
himself? One must be severe with himself and not make
excuses.
sleepy
It's not feeding the earthly body, but the holy spirit in you. That's what he cares for, not the earthly body, after all, you eat to live, not live to eat.
sleepy
lovin the holy spirit part there... ;)
eating is imp to care for the Body God gave u.. mind u there r verses in the Bible that talk about eatign right.. and not being filled with drink .. etc.. so thats first thing..
secondly, if tbe dancing one practices does not glorify God.. its just like doing drugs.. which harm ur body.. then definitely dont do it..
get it?
some dance is good, some r bad.. just like some food r good while soem r bad..
depends on ur view of good and bad..
which comes from ur beliefs and ur own mentality..and society of course which influence us greatly...
unconditional_love, the dances that we do for fun aren't glorifying God, but they aren't hurting him or us either. It's like excercising. That doesn't glorify God, and neither does it tarnish his love for us. Not everything is done to glorify God. There are things out there that don't glorify god, but they don't hurt him either. This can be considered one of them.
sleepy
Thanks SMS! ;)
unconditional_love, the dances that we do for fun aren't glorifying God, but they aren't hurting him or us either. It's like excercising. That doesn't glorify God, and neither does it tarnish his love for us. Not everything is done to glorify God. There are things out there that don't glorify god, but they don't hurt him either. This can be considered one of them.
sleepy
when we dance for fun, but we dont glorify God, how is that not hurting him? ofcourse it is! u guys, im not gonna get overanalytical again and say how exercising does glorify God cause ur keeping the body He gifted u with healthy, and no, nothing will ever tarnish his love for us... but still, things either do or dont glorify God
Its like a black and white section... theres no gray in between
if ur being does not glorify God then ur nothing..period.
unless u can see that what ur doign DOES NOT glorify God in any way, then u should stop... theres nothign called it doesnt glorify Him and doesnt hurt Him either.. this is called the grey spot.. but u see.. in Christianity, there is no grey.. either black or white.
sleepy
im sorry id have to diagree with u on this one..
if ur being does not glorify God then ur nothing..period.
unless u can see that what ur doign DOES NOT glorify God in any way, then u should stop... theres nothign called it doesnt glorify Him and doesnt hurt Him either.. this is called the grey spot.. but u see.. in Christianity, there is no grey.. either black or white.
Read my post to SMS. :D
sleepy
now to answer ur questions sleepy
how are u glorifying God?
ur not.... thats the point
im sure u know the verse:
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.
1 Corinthians 10:23 ;) ;)
n thats what we should abide by
now how are u not glorifying God?
simply because dancing does not edify..... right? and it's not exactly helpful
n plz, i dont wanna c a thousand posts as to how it's helpful in exercising, arts, etc... i'm being realistic here n not talking about ballet or tap or whatever...
sleepy
sleepy
besides, if there no wrongin intentions and its in an appropriate envirnoment, wats the problem.
say im having an all girls party (sorry guys ur not invited :-\) and i decide to put music on and we start dancing to it, is that a problem? i dont think so. and i dont see any logic if it is wrong.
sleepy
Not attacking anyone, but I'd like to comment in general, stating my thoughts. I have long kept my mouth shut about dancing because it's a surefire way to start a riot in Coptic churches.
I agree with stevey820's arguments about dancing in general. I think these are especially valid in situations like wedding receptions and parties, whether families and friends. I won't go into wedding reception arena because it's been discussed and argued to death. (And hopefully no one will pick up on it in a coming post. ;)) I agree with everyone else who likes to be cautious and non-complacent in their spiritual lives, thinking about every action and whether it will add or subtract from their spiritual stature.
Having said all that, I'd like to stop talking about exceptions and more about the concept of dancing. Firstly, without waxing philosophical, our God is the God of music and rhythm. He values music and rhythm, and if you look at (I think) 1 Chronicles, you'll see the degree to which King David went to ensure that music and dance were done properly in Jewish liturgical worship. So there is a definite component of dance and music there. Secondly, our God gave us souls and spirits that are capable of responding to things that touch us. So, a good love song or even just a powerful hip-hop track with a complex, intelligent beat can stir us.
Music and dance then are Siamesed together and I don't think we can ever separate them. To deny the fact that we won't be moved or 'aroused' by music is denying the fact that we are specially crafted humans by God. Also, to say that all music, if it evens gets me thinking about dancing, is sinful would also be far too extreme. I perceive that when people talk about dancing nowadays in Coptic circles, they're referring to one or more of the following:
1. 'bump n grind'
2. belly dancing
3. touchy feely dancing
Also, not all dancing is sensual. Some are very, but not. Someone rightly pointed out that churches in South Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa in general incorporate a lot of dancing in their worship. Even African Orthodox Churches do it and they have done it during the Holy Liturgy. I have experienced many of these liturgies and I'd be a hardened loser to say in all my pride that their dancing is wrong. Their hearts and their eyes only attest that they're truly glorifying God. However, we cannot apply dancing in all worship because we don't have that cultural or heritage license.
Call me weird, but when I dance, I dance to the music and not to the person in front or behind me. Yes, if an attractive girl is swaying her hips in front of me, I'd be a liar if I said I don't notice. But I got up to dance not because I want to impress that girl or get close to her - I got up to dance to dance! If that girl is causing my eyes or my passions a stir, it's my responsibility to turn around (preferably elegantly and not too obviously) and slide to somewhere else. We often pick on those who instigate, but it's also up to the person being affected to do something - like flee as St. James said.
Dancing to house or electronica is pretty much a solitary thing. If you're moshing at a rock concert, it's the same thing. So at the end of the day, dancing is not always a communal thing. Dancing is foremost an expression of your response to the music you're listening to. We can't just reduce dance down to an act deplorable as fornication or gluttony. If we're going to put a negative label on any kind of infectious dance or rhythm, I think (in own my view) we're putting a negative label on how the Trinity works. The Trinity works in harmony, in rhythm and in peace. If we say any kind of rhythm is bad, then it's going too far. Our bodies function on rhythms, nature seems to be running on some kind of God-ordained rhythm. We can't just escape rhythm altogether and say 'it incites lust'.
I think the key to all of this is, again, our intentions and knowing ourselves. In Christian settings or places where there are others involved, oh yes, if we do anything less than what the Bible says about stumbling blocks or hurting others, then we're not being faithful Christians. In all other counts though, we can't use the same arguments or apply the same reasoning.
*Phew* I'm done. Just a few thoughts.
Mina.
sleepy
|
just because herodius did it and got wat she wanted. Does taht go for everyone?
please help me...... A very confused soul
Anonyamos
sleepy
I have read over this page and i still dont understand. So Dancing kind of makes you weaker and desire things?/? or something of that sort or thats wat i got out of this page. :-\I NEED HELP I guess you can also consider T.V. like Dancing because it gets you off guard. But waht if you dance but are not attracted to.... ^
|
just because herodius did it and got wat she wanted. Does taht go for everyone?
please help me...... A very confused soul
Anonyamos
Hi markosphillips,
The issues with dancing are intent.
For example, how would you feel if you went to a club and started to dance with someone of the same sex? That would feel very strange because it almost always something you do with a member of the opposite sex. It is for that reason that we have to realise that there is more to dancing that it just being a form of recreation. This is not to say that all dancing is bad but the dancing that people do in night club is not a very chaste pass time...
If your talking about something like greek dancing which isn't done with a paticular sex then you know the intention is different. This is why we can do it.
God bless,
CS