What is our faith's and our churche's views on self defence? Is it allowed? If so how about the meathod (physically or verbally...)? Are you allowed to physically stand up for yourself? What if someone bullies you can you fight back? And more importantly Is it a sin if you stand up for yourself?
Thanks in advance.
Kirmich
Comments
i dunno, but if verbal defense is allowed, i know theyr gonna say 'no cursing' but if the other person is cursing at u how do u defend urself?
ex: if i dont defend urself and walk away or do something peaceful, these ppl will never leave me alone cuz they will see that im weak and it could escalate into something horrible...God forbid
nice q tho
GBU and pls p4m
if i dont defend urself and walk away or do something peaceful, these ppl will never leave me alone cuz they will see that im weak and it could escalate into something horrible...God forbid
Now thats what happens. They always pick on you more if u just walk away. How about physical defence?
pray 4 me
what me helped to realize how life is and how it ends was this song :
plz dont say its muslim shit...just listen and realize it
if u do so my brother u will realize that this is nothing (my opinion)
pp4m
and forgive me plz if i said something wrong or so...plz
There is this story about a flood that wreaked havoc on this town in the valley. Many unprepared families and residents were waiting patiently on the roofs of their houses, either for the flood to subside, or to be rescued. A few nights had passed away, and as luck would have it, the flood was actually rising rather than receding.
There was this religious man who kept praying for God to save him. It so happened that a neighbour was able to make use of his canoe and made his way to him, and offered the free seat. The religious man politely refused, and then started praying again, saying, "I am waiting for you." So, a while later, a yacht came by, and the captain offered a ride, and the religious man seeing the rising waters was starting to get anxious still. However, he politely refused, and prayed again to God, saying "My Lord, hasten!" Awhile later, a helicopter from the neighbouring town had arrived, and the religious man now hungry and with the the water level now almost to the apex of the roof, nervously declined their offer to be taken aboard.
Later that day, he died. Whether it was hunger, or whether he drowned, or whether because of his starving state he had no energy to swim, no one knows.
So, the righteous man, indignant or just confused, asked God why He didn't save him. Then God with a look of exasperation, answered, "What do you mean? I gave you the canoe, the yacht and lastly the helicopter!"
The morale of the story is what are we expecting? Some divine intervention. Yes, God does intervene. But through human beings. That is why as Christians we have a huge responsibility to act according to His Will.
[quote author=KrazyLion link=topic=5976.msg79908#msg79908 date=1196573213]
why would you defend yourself if God is defending you? ... do you think that maybe your better than God?
God doesnt defend u when a bully comes to threaten to beat u up for money pyhcically ( i definately spelled that wrong ) , he defends u spiritually, unless someody comes up to you threatening to kill u for beleiveing in Christ, it is Gods choice, he could do what he did to St George, or you could give ur life up for Christ.
i didnt explain it that well, but u have a snese of what im trying to say.
As for verbal self-defense, I don't see the use. If someone yells, curses, or insults you verbally. Where is the need to say anything back. There is no harm to your person, so why retaliate? However, this doesn't mean that you shouldn't say anything at all. On the contrary, you should do your best to verbally diffuse the situation. Be kind, gentle, and try your best to prevent a fight. This does not make you seem weak. Remember: "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God."
he does defend you physically, maybe not directly, but indirectly through others... like someone of authority might walk by, or something like that... and plus if he does let you get hurt, than thats probably for a good reason.
It's true but come on what are the chances of someone walking past? Plus bullies will still think that u are scared and they'll beat u up some other time (so u will need to defend-yourself) so it was better in the first place and you are going to start over again from square one.
[quote author=EpNomos EnTaio link=topic=5976.msg79938#msg79938 date=1196650119]...you are a punching bag for every angry, misled child that comes your way.
Now that is just what happens if u don't defend yourself. I know this sounds wierd but it happens even if you try to verbally diffuse the situation. Evenmore people will tell their friends that you are 'weak' so they can come and pick on u.
So the bottom line is that we can physically defend ourself when it happens. Can we prevent it in the first place (maybe by showing people that we are tough...)? Also is there any examples in the bible where self-defence was used (maybe the new testemant)?
When it comes to being physically attacked by someone, you certainly have the right to defend yourself. There is a time and a place for it though, and discretion is required. Christ taught that if one were to strike your right cheek, off the left as well. However, there is also a time when Christ did not remain silent after being struck. If we look at the incident when Christ was before the Sanhedrin, we find the following scenario:
[quote=John 18:19-23]
Then the high priest questioned Jesus about his disciples and about his teaching.
Jesus answered, "I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.
Why do you ask me? Ask those who heard what I said to them; they know what I said."
When he had said this, one of the police standing nearby struck Jesus on the face, saying, "Is that how you answer the high priest?"
Jesus answered, "If I have spoken wrongly, testify to the wrong. But if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?"
Christ rebuked the officer who struck Him for no reason. So again, a certain amount of discernment is required on our part. We must always strive to be 'wise as serpents' but 'harmless as doves'.
When it comes to verbal abuse however, I think the lesson we learn from Abba Macarius (I believe) is appropriate. One day, Abba Macarius' disciple came to him complaining about having been insulted. So, to teach him a lesson, Abba Macarius told his disciple to go out to a graveyard and to praise the dead. The disciple did so, and when he returned, his Abba asked him, 'Did the dead respond'. His disciple said, 'No, they did not'. Then Macarius told him to go to the graveyard again and to curse the dead. His disciple did so, and when he returned, again, Macarius asked him, 'Did the dead respond', to which his disciple said, 'No'. Macarius then said, 'So it should be with you, you should be dead to the praises or curses of men'.
Pray 4 me
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
When it comes to verbal abuse however, I think the lesson we learn from Abba Macarius (I believe) is appropriate. One day, Abba Macarius' disciple came to him complaining about having been insulted. So, to teach him a lesson, Abba Macarius told his disciple to go out to a graveyard and to praise the dead. The disciple did so, and when he returned, his Abba asked him, 'Did the dead respond'. His disciple said, 'No, they did not'. Then Macarius told him to go to the graveyard again and to curse the dead. His disciple did so, and when he returned, again, Macarius asked him, 'Did the dead respond', to which his disciple said, 'No'. Macarius then said, 'So it should be with you, you should be dead to the praises or curses of men'.
I've tried to ignore and it really works. This story really helps + it makes u feel good that u haven't sinned or lost your temper on anybody.
Pray 4 me
"You have heard that it was said,' An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."[/glow]
It is true just ignore it. I was going to get into a lot of fights last year.But then I thought about my future why am I going to mess up my record because of some slow idiots.So I held myself back and ignored them.
Mannan is right. the kids might call u a chicken or loser but the bible says...........
1 Peter 3: 15-17
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that then they defame you as evildoersm those those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
The Scripture quotations are very good in explaining the proper dispostion we are called to be in Christ. I personally believe if there's no other option available defend yourself but do not kill (the 6th Commandment). I am a martial artist and I believe in helping people make life-saving decisions in times of crises. Humbly decline confrontation to the point of being called a wimp or worse! But when the situation worsens defend yourself. I am talking with experience since I live in "da 'hood" in NYC. I want to go home to my family and not be denied another second without them. Trust in God and train hard under a good teacher and share with Abouna your burdens.
Thank you.
[glow=red,2,300]In the Name of the Father+ and the Son+ and of the Holy Spirit+, the One True God. Amen. [/glow]
The Scripture quotations are very good in explaining the proper dispostion we are called to be in Christ. I personally believe if there's no other option available defend yourself but do not kill (the 6th Commandment). I am a martial artist and I believe in helping people make life-saving decisions in times of crises. Humbly decline confrontation to the point of being called a wimp or worse! But when the situation worsens defend yourself. I am talking with experience since I live in "da 'hood" in NYC. I want to go home to my family and not be denied another second without them. Trust in God and train hard under a good teacher and share with Abouna your burdens.
Thank you.
Yes you are right. The same thing happens to me. Over time I have adapted to try and deal with this verbally but if it gets serious i don't attack but if someone attacks me i just provoke them until they are calmer.
+ The other thing is that many of my friends that are much stronger than me always defend me. This also somtimes annoys me as they can just beat up a kid for verbally abusing me.
Pray for me
What do you mean by "provoking them until they are calmer"? Provocation can sometimes be a trigger for physical attack. Living a Sacramental Life and working out has been two very essential tools in living in "da 'hood'.
Hope this helps... the first reason u wouldn't fight back..and get called names is because u r trying to stay peaceful
" Blessed are the peacemakers, for they be called sons of God" (MATTHEW 5:9)
The verse speaks for itself
God Bless
Coptic Pharaoh
What do you mean by "provoking them until they are calmer"?
I mean as in holding them if the come to punch you.
[quote author=coptic pharaoh link=topic=5976.msg84518#msg84518 date=1206490846]
"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsly for My sake" (MATTHEW 5:11)
Hope this helps... the first reason u wouldn't fight back..and get called names is because u r trying to stay peaceful
" Blessed are the peacemakers, for they be called sons of God" (MATTHEW 5:9)
The verse speaks for itself
Yes this is very important but can be very hard especially if you deal with school children (as Kirmich stated in his posts) who are not mature and have no wisdom to stop or think.
Pray for me
Physically defending yourself should be the last option. I see it as a form of disciplining my neighbor before he does something worse to me or somebody else. Our parents disciplined us out of love and sometimes harshly! Aikido and jujitsu as well CatchWrestling are good because these arts have many restraint techniques that aren't harmful to the aggressor. Killing and maiming him is a no-no because that can be abuse. It takes a lot of physical and spiritual discipline to restrain and control the aggressor. Running away is aonther option. After pacifying the situation leave as soon as an opportunity arrives.
Again, this is when all other options run out.
1. John 18:19-23
This shows that even though Jesus was hit (physically) he used His words, so why can't we do the same? We can go home and pray for those who are hurting us! we dont have to get those people back ourselves but rather leave that in God's hands because He is fair and He will stand up for each and every single one of us who believe in Him and trust Him.
2. Matthew 5: 38-39 So, why do we still want to fight back even though God clearly says in the Bible not to!!
Being realistic though, we all know which is easier to do but we have to stay strong and PRAY for God to make us stronger and over come such temptations and to follow His foot steps.
Hope this helps :)
God Bless
& pp4m