Which US Candidate for the Presidential Elections (Obama, Clinton, McCain etc) would you vote for, and why? As Coptic Christians, I think we should be voting for candidates whose policies are in parallel with our values.
There is always the choice to "not vote", which should be exercised in my opinion when both parties support policies that oppress the poor and needy and are corrupt on one side (Republican), while the other side supports homosexual lifestyle, abortion, a subtle pro islamic agenda (Democrats).
I like Ron Paul's Libertarian stance of non-interventionism here. Clinton is way too pro-Israel and defended their recent attack on Lebanon in a way I found quite disturbing. McCain seems like he will just follow Bush's current stance, which hasn't done much to convince anyone.
Abortion:
Again, I have to go with Ron Paul. He opposes abortion, like other Republicans, but would like it to be dealt with on a state, rather than federal, level, which I think is the most appropriate way to do it (that's how all other forms of murder are dealt with, so why not also abortion?).
Death Penalty:
Ron Paul again. He's against it, not as a principle, but because it is unfairly administered, often in favour of those with more money.
Gun Crime:
I'd have to go Democrat on this one as they seem to be the only ones opposing gun ownership.
Healthcare:
I'm in favour of universal healthcare, and therefore would go Democrat. However, I think the administration of such a thing should be carried out by the state governments.
"War on drugs":
Ron Paul once more. The war on drugs is doing nothing to stop drug use. All it's doing is wasting more time and money on policing, as well as overcrowding the prisons. Furthermore, it's main victim seems to be the black population, and it is not helping their social mobility at all.
But I don't think one can say any of the candidates represents Christian values to any great extent.
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6035.msg80454#msg80454 date=1198024946] the reason I chose Guilani is because at least he knows our religon very well.
So do the demons.....I don't see why it makes a difference.
Ha, I just realized both of you are from the UK. Even QT. This doesn't even affect you. The americans on this site aren't even posting. Only the UK peope care. LOL
Considering the US president has fairly limited powers at home - most of them are checked by Congress - but can do pretty much whatever he wants in terms of foreign policy, who is the next US president probably affects those outside the US just as much as those living there.
lol, you got my vote, but really i don't think any of the candidates for the 08 election are that great, if i do decide to vote, i will vote for Guilliani because he has the closest thing to our beliefs(not that close but closer than the others for sure)
I agree with you completely and everything you said crossed my mind, but i think that in the end we as christians all we can do is vote for the closest to our values. the thing is (and i think it is well known) that once the person becomes president that they don't fullfil what they said they would. Because Bush was afraid of a riot(not literally), he decided to have the states decide if gay marriage is ok or not. He didn't want to take the heat from anyone on the decision so he handed off to the states. California the most liberal state decided its ok and others followed along, the state i live in still hasn't made a decision but i hope to God that its not allowed(although i doubt it) all we can do is pray that it doesn't get to a point where the state is saying we(the church) must treat gays equally by allowing there marriage, becoming clergy, etc.
I do not think it matters how much Guliani knows about our religion, the Coptic Orthodox people are a minority in America and 98% of Americans have no clue about our faith. So it is just about impossible for us to affect the political agenda and people like Guliani and all other candidates will not listen to Copts unless like all other interest groups we have money. It is sad but it is true without money your voice is a whisper in politics unless you have the majority and the media on your side. Also Guliani is pro-choice and definitely not the best candidate for Christians. If that is what you are looking for the best person would probably be Mike Hukabee. Anyways when it is time to vote I encourage everyone to participate in the political process and vote for the best candidate.
The candidate for the Republicans is not Giuliani, but rather Ron Paul if you keep up with the straw polls. Clinton is the shoo in for the Democratic nomination due to her name recognition and racial tensions. I say this not to be racist but the reason Obama will not be chosen is due to his skin color. Everyone says equal rights, but not everyone's heart feels that way. If Obama gets the nomination for the democrats, the southern democrats (Dixiecrats) will shy away from him. Clinton faces two problems with her nomination: one, she is a woman. Two, she is a Clinton. The first point is a large portion of the voting population still have not reached the point where they can vote for a woman, sadly but true. The second point is the clinton name is utterly despised by the southeners and the conservatives. However as of now, Clinton looks like the shoo in for the Democratic nomination.
The republican nomination is going to be a heated debate, I believe, between Huckabee and Ron Paul. Huckabee may have the media spotlight, however, Ron Paul has the support of the people. Two days ago, Ron Paul raised over 6 million dollars in 24 hours, from over 50,000 supporters, 25,000 of them being new donators. The media is ignoring him for a reason - he is the only non-corrupt politician running. Giuliani has the name recognition for only one reason - September 11. He has used September 11 shamefully to advance his career. If anyone watched the Republican National Convention in 2004 you know what I mean. Giuliani is pro-choice, has had 3 marriages, was known to be a corrupt politician in NYC, and supports terrorism. It does not matter that Giuliani knows about our religion - Satan of all people knows our religion. Ron Paul doesnt know our religion but is an excellent example of a Christian.
Just for the record, I was a Democrat up until this year. The Democrats were put into office to make changes to the government - they haven't. They have lost my vote. The only candidate I support now is Ron Paul, and I still hold onto my Democratic views, which he is against for the most part, but I am voting to support a moral man, not a crooked thief.
Were I am American I would think of rendering unto Caesar the things that are his and to God those that belong to him.
In answer to your question:
Which US Candidate for the Presidential Elections (Obama, Clinton, McCain etc) would you vote for, and why? As Coptic Christians, I think we should be voting for candidates whose policies are in parallel with our values.
since none of them share my values I wouldn't be voting for any of them. (Which just confirms that only those of us in Europe are concerned with this!)
I think it is hard to choose a candidate that is closest to our religious beliefs, because in a way they contradict each other. Most Republican candidates for instance are anti-gay marriage and anti-abortion yet at the same time do not want to expand social programs on healthcare, welfare, etc. Whereas Democrats are more liberal when it comes to abortion and gay marriage but also want more government intervention to help people. It is almost impossible to find a presidential candidate with both qualitities. If this is the case what is more important? The issues of gay marriage and abortion, or the issues of welfare and healthcare, etc.
I am on the same boat as all of you when it comes to social and moral issues that plauge our society. Overtime I have come to realize that its not political parties that influence changes in social norms and perspectives, but people. MORALS AND POLITICS DONT MIX.
The US Constitution allows for change and it adapts to the choices that Americans make. What we define as moral can be looked at as immoral by someone else. What is immoral to you might be moral to someone else.
Everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, values and morals. We must remember that we are responsible for our own actions. If you belive something is wrong than dont do it, its your responsibility to take care of yourself. If you belive abortions wrong than dont have abortions. If you belive homosexuality is wrong, that dont be a homosexual.
Be tolerant of others and BE AWARE OF YOUR SELF AND YOUR FAMILY not others.
Educate yourselves and realize that social changes are subject only too what is appropriate of our constitution and its boundries.
Did you know ROE VS. WADE took place under a republican president. JUST BECAUSE the Leading party is conservative doesnt mean the nations courts will be.
If homosexual marriges are allowed in our country does that mean the church will allow it? What a stupid question to even consider. belive what you want do what you want to, but understand that just becuase "society" defines it as correct, doesnt make it correct for our church.
THATS WHY CHURCH AND STATE ARE SEPERATE. Voting Republican does'nt ensure your morals and values to be held up in society, there left for YOU to define. Everyone should vote for the canadite that they think has the better policy's and plans that will help our economy and saftey.
The following point has no merit is completly wack. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM!!!!!!!!!! THEY CANT BAN ANY RELIGOUS DENOMINATIONS ON GROUNDS OF HOMOPHOBIA. Thats the most ignorant thing I have ever heard
"If you allow gay marriages in the USA, the effects of this on European policy will be astronomical. The State will then look to Churches and INSIST that if a clergyman is paid (Priest, Pastor, Vicor, Bishop), then it will be discrimatory NOT to employ a gay bishop, priest, deacon etc. They will insist. If Churches refuse to annoint gay clergy, what will be the end result? They could even ban religious denominations from practice on grounds of "homophobia". The possibilities are terrifying."
Just in case you didn't hear, Rudy Giuliani dropped out of the election.
I am an American, but I won't be old enough to vote in the upcoming election.
How about Mike Huckabee? He is the candidate I feel most comfortable with...
By the way, All the candidates seem to be harsh on suppressing immigration... I feel sympathy for our Egyptian family on the waiting list... (or the black list)
[quote author=user00 link=topic=6035.msg82027#msg82027 date=1202699655] Just in case you didn't hear, Rudy Giuliani dropped out of the election.
I am an American, but I won't be old enough to vote in the upcoming election.
How about Mike Huckabee? He is the candidate I feel most comfortable with...
By the way, All the candidates seem to be harsh on suppressing immigration... I feel sympathy for our Egyptian family on the waiting list... (or the black list)
Many candidates have recently dropped out of the election, but I am hoping that the US will decide on the upcoming president, by the will of God, whomever it may be, take us out of turmoil and let us surround the world with peace. I'm not a preacher, but I am one who is hoping that world peace will be here shortly so we don't always have problems that effect our daily lives!! Immigration has gotten tougher, my aunt was supposed to come in, I believe 2005, well it's 2008, and the immigration people said their application has been declined..it's getting harder to move to places!!
Look sorry if anyone feels angry by this but no one right now is really great. The Democrats i am completely against , Obama can't work at all and neither can Clinton, our only hope right now is Mccain because Hackabee is great but has no chance at all. The US has lost it, it is getting worse and worse every day. WE NEED PRAYERS FOR THE US. GOD PROTECT US ALL FROM POLITICS. GBU
Anba Bishoy, I'm guessing you are conservative or republican, but I don't want to get into that whole thing, sorry for bringing it up!! Actually I've heard this story I believe it was an interview with a 100% american born citizen and he said, I don't want an african american to run the country, or a woman, but I would choose an american, possibly mccain. I don't think it was nice of him to say that he thinks that an african american can't run a country, or a woman, you have all seen Hosni Mubarak run our country perfectly fine so far, I think, and Bhutto she was doing great, I don't see why they would say that!! It's bad enough that a lot of men around the world think that women are inferior to them, just because we're women!!
I must agree with Anba Bishoy, I feel that non of the candidates will be good choices and i'm still not sure if i will even vote but if i do i will probably go with Mccain as well. Not because Obama is black or that Clinton is a women but because they really are to libral for my taste, especially on the issues of abortion and homosexuality(i'm not condeming the people just the act and it should not be promoted the way they will) quite suprised actually that Obama would be that libral but thats not important.
[quote author=Anba Bishoy link=topic=6035.msg82032#msg82032 date=1202701716] Look sorry if anyone feels angry by this but no one right now is really great. The Democrats i am completely against , Obama can't work at all and neither can Clinton, our only hope right now is Mccain because Hackabee is great but has no chance at all. The US has lost it, it is getting worse and worse every day. WE NEED PRAYERS OF THE US. GOD PROTECT US ALL FROM POLITICS. GBU
McCain's policies for Iraq are :-[ Read about it.. he wants to send more troops and increase government spending in the war. Democrats are saying "This war is a failure, let's get out", Republicans -- "This war is a failure, let's kill more people and spend more money."
I hate both parties equally, to be perfectly honest.. but It's all just a big shame...
Ron Paul's a pretty good candidate I think, but too bad he doesn't have a chance :-\
I agree with you Anastasi about the Iraq problem, but also consider that maybe as Democrats might want us out of Iraq and McCain wants us to stay, that Bush said that he is planning on making peace in Iraq by the end of his presidency (it said it somewhere in MSNBC). So, by the time the new president comes, there won't be any Iraq issue. I have to disagree with you about Ron Paul, considering that he is openly gay. I would say Huckabee is the best candidate out of everyone running, but unfortunately, I know he has no chance of winning, and that is why I would say that McCain is the definite best out of everyone (he actually has a chance, and he is a Republican). In Christ, aem581
[quote author=aem581 link=topic=6035.msg82041#msg82041 date=1202708481] I agree with you Anastasi about the Iraq problem, but also consider that maybe as Democrats might want us out of Iraq and McCain wants us to stay, that Bush said that he is planning on making peace in Iraq by the end of his presidency (it said it somewhere in MSNBC). So, by the time the new president comes, there won't be any Iraq issue. I have to disagree with you about Ron Paul, considering that he is openly gay. I would say Huckabee is the best candidate out of everyone running, but unfortunately, I know he has no chance of winning, and that is why I would say that McCain is the definite best out of everyone (he actually has a chance, and he is a Republican). In Christ, aem581
I do not know where you got your information, but all of this is incorrect. President Bush has stated numerous times that he will not pull out of Iraq, and the future president will have to deal with it himself. Ron Paul is not gay, nor has he ever been. He is a fervent Baptist; he has been married for 50 years, and has had five children. He has voted pro-life ever since he became a representative. He voted against every bill which tried to redefine marriage from the traditional husband-wife role.
I am a Democrat by policy, but I registered Republican to show my support for Ron Paul. The other Republicans, especially McCain, are fake conservatives and are not trust worthy. McCain has stated that troops could remain in Iraq indefinitely, perhaps even for 100 years, and that future wars are a possibility, especially with Iran and perhaps Korea.
I'd just like to point out that even if the Democrats gain the presidential office, no large changes will occur. Gay marriage will not occur, for there is not a majority in the Congress to vote upon it, and the courts still do not have a majority to vote for it. The opposition would be so strong that it would not be a possibility during their presidency.
Abortion? The laws will most likely not change under either Republican or Democrat, for neither side has or will have a majority in both the courts and congress for a long time. All the fears about gay marriage and abortion are without merit; Nothing will change in the next 8-12 years concerning this, for if any side attempts to do so, it will be political suicide.
What needs to be examined are the core principle issues: healthcare, social security, iraq, and the environment. Once you find your priorities, you can align yourself with a candidate.
I am more scared of McCain becoming president than I would be of Hillary for the time being. Considering the country's current turmoil with economics and Iraq, I doubt there'll be a chance for any democrat to try to pass any abortion or gay rights. They'll be too occupied with all the stuff that's wrong with the country now. Iraq and this economic slump are things to be deeply concerned about this election, as opposed to morality (which will show no severe changes for a long time).
Silent One, I got the news about Bush saying he will get out of Iraq by the end of his term from MSNBC. I thought that a debate mentioned that he was openly gay, but I guess I am wrong. Huckabee is the best candidate because he is considering that the government is Church/State, not just state (like McCain). McCain has shown he is more of a Moderate, but Huckabee has proved himself a true Conservative, being the winner of the mostly conservative people over the weekend's elections. Since, I think that Huckabee cannot win, I would rather have McCain as President because he won't make any issues wrong except Iraq. In Christ, aem581
Comments
I like Ron Paul's Libertarian stance of non-interventionism here. Clinton is way too pro-Israel and defended their recent attack on Lebanon in a way I found quite disturbing. McCain seems like he will just follow Bush's current stance, which hasn't done much to convince anyone.
Abortion:
Again, I have to go with Ron Paul. He opposes abortion, like other Republicans, but would like it to be dealt with on a state, rather than federal, level, which I think is the most appropriate way to do it (that's how all other forms of murder are dealt with, so why not also abortion?).
Death Penalty:
Ron Paul again. He's against it, not as a principle, but because it is unfairly administered, often in favour of those with more money.
Gun Crime:
I'd have to go Democrat on this one as they seem to be the only ones opposing gun ownership.
Healthcare:
I'm in favour of universal healthcare, and therefore would go Democrat. However, I think the administration of such a thing should be carried out by the state governments.
"War on drugs":
Ron Paul once more. The war on drugs is doing nothing to stop drug use. All it's doing is wasting more time and money on policing, as well as overcrowding the prisons. Furthermore, it's main victim seems to be the black population, and it is not helping their social mobility at all.
But I don't think one can say any of the candidates represents Christian values to any great extent.
the reason I chose Guilani is because at least he knows our religon very well.
So do the demons.....I don't see why it makes a difference. Considering the US president has fairly limited powers at home - most of them are checked by Congress - but can do pretty much whatever he wants in terms of foreign policy, who is the next US president probably affects those outside the US just as much as those living there.
Reasons:
1) Great Name
2) if not yet convinced, see reason one...
3) still not convinced? .... go back and reconsider number 1
4) don't vote......
God Bless
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/candidates/
The republican nomination is going to be a heated debate, I believe, between Huckabee and Ron Paul. Huckabee may have the media spotlight, however, Ron Paul has the support of the people. Two days ago, Ron Paul raised over 6 million dollars in 24 hours, from over 50,000 supporters, 25,000 of them being new donators. The media is ignoring him for a reason - he is the only non-corrupt politician running. Giuliani has the name recognition for only one reason - September 11. He has used September 11 shamefully to advance his career. If anyone watched the Republican National Convention in 2004 you know what I mean. Giuliani is pro-choice, has had 3 marriages, was known to be a corrupt politician in NYC, and supports terrorism. It does not matter that Giuliani knows about our religion - Satan of all people knows our religion. Ron Paul doesnt know our religion but is an excellent example of a Christian.
Just for the record, I was a Democrat up until this year. The Democrats were put into office to make changes to the government - they haven't. They have lost my vote. The only candidate I support now is Ron Paul, and I still hold onto my Democratic views, which he is against for the most part, but I am voting to support a moral man, not a crooked thief.
Were I am American I would think of rendering unto Caesar the things that are his and to God those that belong to him.
In answer to your question: since none of them share my values I wouldn't be voting for any of them. (Which just confirms that only those of us in Europe are concerned with this!)
In Christ,
Anglian
God Bless
The US Constitution allows for change and it adapts to the choices that Americans make. What we define as moral can be looked at as immoral by someone else. What is immoral to you might be moral to someone else.
Everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, values and morals. We must remember that we are responsible for our own actions. If you belive something is wrong than dont do it, its your responsibility to take care of yourself. If you belive abortions wrong than dont have abortions. If you belive homosexuality is wrong, that dont be a homosexual.
Be tolerant of others and BE AWARE OF YOUR SELF AND YOUR FAMILY not others.
Educate yourselves and realize that social changes are subject only too what is appropriate of our constitution and its boundries.
Did you know ROE VS. WADE took place under a republican president. JUST BECAUSE the Leading party is conservative doesnt mean the nations courts will be.
If homosexual marriges are allowed in our country does that mean the church will allow it?
What a stupid question to even consider. belive what you want do what you want to, but understand that just becuase "society" defines it as correct, doesnt make it correct for our church.
THATS WHY CHURCH AND STATE ARE SEPERATE. Voting Republican does'nt ensure your morals and values to be held up in society, there left for YOU to define. Everyone should vote for the canadite that they think has the better policy's and plans that will help our economy and saftey.
The following point has no merit is completly wack. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM!!!!!!!!!! THEY CANT BAN ANY RELIGOUS DENOMINATIONS ON GROUNDS OF HOMOPHOBIA. Thats the most ignorant thing I have ever heard
"If you allow gay marriages in the USA, the effects of this on European policy will be astronomical. The State will then look to Churches and INSIST that if a clergyman is paid (Priest, Pastor, Vicor, Bishop), then it will be discrimatory NOT to employ a gay bishop, priest, deacon etc. They will insist. If Churches refuse to annoint gay clergy, what will be the end result? They could even ban religious denominations from practice on grounds of "homophobia". The possibilities are terrifying."
Rudy Giuliani dropped out of the election.
I am an American, but I won't be old enough to vote in the upcoming election.
How about Mike Huckabee? He is the candidate I feel most comfortable with...
By the way, All the candidates seem to be harsh on suppressing immigration... I feel sympathy for our Egyptian family on the waiting list... (or the black list)
Just in case you didn't hear,
Rudy Giuliani dropped out of the election.
I am an American, but I won't be old enough to vote in the upcoming election.
How about Mike Huckabee? He is the candidate I feel most comfortable with...
By the way, All the candidates seem to be harsh on suppressing immigration... I feel sympathy for our Egyptian family on the waiting list... (or the black list)
Many candidates have recently dropped out of the election, but I am hoping that the US will decide on the upcoming president, by the will of God, whomever it may be, take us out of turmoil and let us surround the world with peace. I'm not a preacher, but I am one who is hoping that world peace will be here shortly so we don't always have problems that effect our daily lives!! Immigration has gotten tougher, my aunt was supposed to come in, I believe 2005, well it's 2008, and the immigration people said their application has been declined..it's getting harder to move to places!!
Forever,
Coptic Servent
I'm guessing you are conservative or republican, but I don't want to get into that whole thing, sorry for bringing it up!! Actually I've heard this story I believe it was an interview with a 100% american born citizen and he said, I don't want an african american to run the country, or a woman, but I would choose an american, possibly mccain. I don't think it was nice of him to say that he thinks that an african american can't run a country, or a woman, you have all seen Hosni Mubarak run our country perfectly fine so far, I think, and Bhutto she was doing great, I don't see why they would say that!! It's bad enough that a lot of men around the world think that women are inferior to them, just because we're women!!
Forever,
Coptic Servent
Look sorry if anyone feels angry by this but no one right now is really great. The Democrats i am completely against , Obama can't work at all and neither can Clinton, our only hope right now is Mccain because Hackabee is great but has no chance at all. The US has lost it, it is getting worse and worse every day. WE NEED PRAYERS OF THE US. GOD PROTECT US ALL FROM POLITICS. GBU
McCain's policies for Iraq are :-[ Read about it.. he wants to send more troops and increase government spending in the war. Democrats are saying "This war is a failure, let's get out", Republicans -- "This war is a failure, let's kill more people and spend more money."
I hate both parties equally, to be perfectly honest.. but It's all just a big shame...
Ron Paul's a pretty good candidate I think, but too bad he doesn't have a chance :-\
I have to disagree with you about Ron Paul, considering that he is openly gay. I would say Huckabee is the best candidate out of everyone running, but unfortunately, I know he has no chance of winning, and that is why I would say that McCain is the definite best out of everyone (he actually has a chance, and he is a Republican).
In Christ,
aem581
I agree with you Anastasi about the Iraq problem, but also consider that maybe as Democrats might want us out of Iraq and McCain wants us to stay, that Bush said that he is planning on making peace in Iraq by the end of his presidency (it said it somewhere in MSNBC). So, by the time the new president comes, there won't be any Iraq issue.
I have to disagree with you about Ron Paul, considering that he is openly gay. I would say Huckabee is the best candidate out of everyone running, but unfortunately, I know he has no chance of winning, and that is why I would say that McCain is the definite best out of everyone (he actually has a chance, and he is a Republican).
In Christ,
aem581
I do not know where you got your information, but all of this is incorrect. President Bush has stated numerous times that he will not pull out of Iraq, and the future president will have to deal with it himself. Ron Paul is not gay, nor has he ever been. He is a fervent Baptist; he has been married for 50 years, and has had five children. He has voted pro-life ever since he became a representative. He voted against every bill which tried to redefine marriage from the traditional husband-wife role.
I am a Democrat by policy, but I registered Republican to show my support for Ron Paul. The other Republicans, especially McCain, are fake conservatives and are not trust worthy. McCain has stated that troops could remain in Iraq indefinitely, perhaps even for 100 years, and that future wars are a possibility, especially with Iran and perhaps Korea.
I'd just like to point out that even if the Democrats gain the presidential office, no large changes will occur. Gay marriage will not occur, for there is not a majority in the Congress to vote upon it, and the courts still do not have a majority to vote for it. The opposition would be so strong that it would not be a possibility during their presidency.
Abortion? The laws will most likely not change under either Republican or Democrat, for neither side has or will have a majority in both the courts and congress for a long time. All the fears about gay marriage and abortion are without merit; Nothing will change in the next 8-12 years concerning this, for if any side attempts to do so, it will be political suicide.
What needs to be examined are the core principle issues: healthcare, social security, iraq, and the environment. Once you find your priorities, you can align yourself with a candidate.
I am more scared of McCain becoming president than I would be of Hillary for the time being. Considering the country's current turmoil with economics and Iraq, I doubt there'll be a chance for any democrat to try to pass any abortion or gay rights. They'll be too occupied with all the stuff that's wrong with the country now. Iraq and this economic slump are things to be deeply concerned about this election, as opposed to morality (which will show no severe changes for a long time).
Nonetheless, I stand undecided.
I got the news about Bush saying he will get out of Iraq by the end of his term from MSNBC. I thought that a debate mentioned that he was openly gay, but I guess I am wrong. Huckabee is the best candidate because he is considering that the government is Church/State, not just state (like McCain). McCain has shown he is more of a Moderate, but Huckabee has proved himself a true Conservative, being the winner of the mostly conservative people over the weekend's elections. Since, I think that Huckabee cannot win, I would rather have McCain as President because he won't make any issues wrong except Iraq.
In Christ,
aem581