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Food for Lent

coptic pharoahcoptic pharoah
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
I was just wondering about wat you think about the fake fasting foods, like the vegi-burger(that tastes exactly likr the real thing)  fake cheeses and hams. etc.

I think it is wrong cause if u gonna eat this stuff than u might as well be not faasting..



God Bless

Coptic Pahroah

Comments

  • Unknown
    It's just like being a vegetarian or vegan I suppose, we have nothing else to eat except granola bars, beans, and more foul, so veggie burgers I guess are really useful, I know of a lot of people that eat them, including myself, I mean it's just nutritional food, what now it's going to be tempting, I don't like burgers, but I like veggie burgers they taste better than regular ones, except ones that are home-made!!

    Forever,
    Coptic Servent
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    I agree with you to a point, but these fake things really dont taste like the real meats(at least to me) and i don't really like eating them, i only eat them as a source of protein besides foul. But if it is somthing that tastes exactly like the real thing and you are just fasting from the protein that its really as if your not fasting anyway
  • coptic pharoahcoptic pharoah
    but u never actually know wat they use for the veggie burgers..i tried it once..it tasted exactly lik the realthing..and ... what u said makes even a better point..."

    I don't like burgers, but I like veggie burgers they taste better than regular ones

    that is the whole point of the lent..or fast to give up the stuff that u like....  sorry if i have offended u in  any way

    God Bless

    Coptic Pharoah
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    1. if it's a substitution then it is almost like cheating, you are not really depriving yourself of satifaction

    2. we shouldn't be focusing on fasting from food as much as we should be on fasting from sin.

    I just wanted to bring the second point up because a lot of people forget about it. Yes we do have to fast from food, but don't worry about the food until you've began to fast from the sins. (not you personally but everyone)
  • Unknown
    I know what they use for veggie burgers, at first I didn't like them, now I'm just used to them, I eat garlic bread from pizza hut, yes they are siami, but at least I get a portion of the food guide pyramid, that's one thing I've seen us coptic christians do, is lack nutrition, yes I know veggie burgers aren't the greatest thing in the world, the ones from bk anyway, just the one from sam's club, those taste like the real things. I don't think food it the whole point of the lent if you were going for that, I certainly think it's just it's that time of year where we can give back to God, and it's fine you didn't offend me in anyway!!

    Forever,
    Coptic Servent
  • coptic pharoahcoptic pharoah
    His Servant,
    if we all focused on fasting from sins before the foods, then we would be starting to focus around a week before the end of the fast.. im not saying that we shouldn't concentrate on both of them at the same time...


    God Bless

    Coptic Pharoah
  • user00
    I agree with coptic pharaoh!
  • mannanmannan
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6366.msg83964#msg83964 date=1205882001]
    I agree with you to a point, but these fake things really dont taste like the real meats(at least to me) and i don't really like eating them, i only eat them as a source of protein besides foul.

    Same here  think they are nasty btw did you know they even have veggie dogs (Hotdogs )
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    Yeah they are by far the worst things(veggie wise) i've ever tasted
  • coptic pharoahcoptic pharoah
    lol...i kniw someone that was making a joke about how bad that stuff was... he said it is so bad, we shuld eat it on good friday as a way of sufuring and feeling the pain of Jesus like we drink vinager lol..i dunno if u think it is funy or not...

  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    In my opinion, you need a source of protein, hence the veggie burgers are fine as well as all the soy derived products, regardless.  The USA, since it has no religious identification, lacks any sense of the Fasting Seasons, and we make do with what is available.

    'Food for Lent' identifies abstinence from the 'food of the world' and substituting with the simpler 'spiritual food'.  The choice of vegan products allow us to revert to a simpler time (in the Garden of Eden) and to focus on the goal of reaching Paradise.

    Lent is tri-part:  Fasting (abstinence for a certain time, and vegan intake), Prayer, and Alms.

    What is improper is:  the baklava syndrome, the "fasting" cakes, "fasting" cookies, Tofu ice cream, etc.

    These things are stupid and make us look hypocritical and pronouncers of hypocrisy.  When the foreigners see us doing this they see the "substitution" effect.

    Let remember the old proverb I pronounce many a time:  "If it looks like baklava, smells like baklava, and tastes like baklava...it is baklava."

    I hardly think veggie burgers or the vegan products fall into that category.

    BTW (Coptic Pharaoh):  Great Friday is full abstinence for the entire day (for the physically able).

    A Blessed Great Lent, a Holy Pascha, as we anticipate the celebration of the Resurrection Feast.
  • kokiiekokiie
    There are some vegie burgers that taste, smell and feel like meat [eww!] , but there's others that are made from just plain old vegetables and they're really yummy..

    The point of fasting is to concentrate on your spiritual food and not your physical.... I really jjust eat whatever's available..
  • Unknown
    If I may add also to the physical nutrition, to also gain protein I suggest soy products, I tried soy milk, the only they advertise on television and well from my opinion it was really sweet, I thought this couldn't be milk, I guess it turned out to be creamer, but anyways look for the soy foods, like granola bars and what not!

    Forever,
    Coptic Servent
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    [quote author=coptic pharoah link=topic=6366.msg83970#msg83970 date=1205884036]
    His Servant,
    if we all focused on fasting from sins before the foods, then we would be starting to focus around a week before the end of the fast.. im not saying that we shouldn't concentrate on both of them at the same time...


    God Bless

    Coptic Pharoah


    these words were not mine own but came directly from the mouth of my priest.

    food is the LAST thing we focus on in fasting, because fasting from food is meaningless when u can't fast from sin.
  • Unknown


    food is the LAST thing we focus on in fasting, because fasting from food is meaningless when u can't fast from sin.

    I agree, but Fasting and Prayer is the key to a successful fast!!

    Forever,
    Coptic Servent
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    By humbling the body through fasting, one is able to appreciate the necessity of:  prayer and almsgiving.

    Funny, not too many people like to discuss almsgiving.  Theoretically, it is easy to discuss fasting and prayer, that does not cost anyone anything financially, but almsgiving is a scary topic because people would have to put 'their money where their mouth is'.

  • coptic pharoahcoptic pharoah
    don't u think we should"multi-task"  i mean focus on both....



    God Bless

    Coptic Pharoah
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    ehh always focus on what can get you to heaven, and the first thing is abstinence from sin, then from food. Fasting from food doesn't make us strong if you keep sinning, but fasting from sin makes you strong when fasting from food.
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    His Servant is right if you just focus on the food during fasts then you've really done absolutely nothing(and i mean nothing) all you have done is change your diet which obviously does nothing for our spirituality. You have to focus on repenting and reading the Holy Bible and growing spiritually through prayer. Those are a must.

    ilovesaintmark, i must disagree with you, almsgiving is not just apart of fasting but should be something that is done(for those who can obviously) regardless of the time of year.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    JYdeacon,

    You are taking my words out of context.  If we recall the Gospel of the Sunday preceding the start of Lent, the three points are mentioned specifically.  Abstinence and food are an issue.  Our Lord made it an issue by fasting for 40 days and 40 nights.  He made food an issue when He had to find sustinance for those in the desert.

    Look at all of my words as a whole and try not to make potholes with out-of-context extracts.

    Certainly, Absolutely, Totally, and fully the avoidance of sin is the prime directive.

    Almsgiving is a daily act, and is inclusive of tithing.  I was making noting that pick and choose, and one has to remember it is the whole package.  Each portion allows for a fuller appreciation.

    Good Night.
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=6366.msg84077#msg84077 date=1205970383]
    JYdeacon,

    You are taking my words out of context.  If we recall the Gospel of the Sunday preceding the start of Lent, the three points are mentioned specifically.  Abstinence and food are an issue.  Our Lord made it an issue by fasting for 40 days and 40 nights.  He made food an issue when He had to find sustinance for those in the desert.

    Look at all of my words as a whole and try not to make potholes with out-of-context extracts.

    Certainly, Absolutely, Totally, and fully the avoidance of sin is the prime directive.

    Almsgiving is a daily act, and is inclusive of tithing.  I was making noting that pick and choose, and one has to remember it is the whole package.  Each portion allows for a fuller appreciation.

    Good Night.


    I think you are talking about changing the stone to bread, this was not to worry about food but instead we do not need food because we will die with food but we will live with the Word of God, it wasn't about abstaining or anything like that, it was about reminding us that the Word of God gives life and nourishment, not food alone.
  • ZakharyZakhary
    I guess back to the original question, personally I don't see any thing wrong with as long as you don't long for it or desire it, but my father of confession thinks its wrong to eat things that remind you of the tasty meats especially since there is a lot of other things that are available.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    Not my opinion but rather Pope Shenouda's in one of his tapes:

    "Kifaya ini ismaha lahma"

    "It's enough it's called meat"

    I think what he said speaks for itself. And I know at least one person is going to get mad at me but I would like to remind all of you that these aren't my words but rather the pope's.

    My opinion is that it's ok to eat these things but I don't think you should completely rely on them while fasting. Once a week of these things is plenty.

    Plus, my mom is a doctor, and she is currently following up on reports of soy causing colon cancer. So healthwise, these things aren't that great.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    How can you argue with the Pope?

    The man's answers in one phrase or sentence to quaff any doubts or thought.

    Nice...PopeKyrillos.  I like that answer.
  • ServantOfJesusServantOfJesus
    Coptic Pharaoh,

    In answer to your original question:  It's important to note that when you fast, you're abstaining from the TASTE associated with the senses, not the chemical composition of the food. Does it matter what the food is made of? It's simple sacrifice due to the taste, so if the same luxury of taste is essentially generated through a different combination of chemicals, what exactly are you fasting from? Might as well save yourself the trouble, carcinogens, and hassle, and eat the real thing  ::)

    H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy gave a great lecture about this once. I don't reckon it's online anywhere, but it's a shame we have substitutes for everything now, and that people think it's okay because they "have nothing else to eat". What's the point of fasting? DISCIPLINE. Discipline in no way constitutes CONVENIENCE. So if you have nothing to eat, you're doing something right. If the world and it's fake meats and luxuries is open to you all year round, then you might as well not compromise fasting in the first place. Like His Eminence said, you should eat rotten cheese, made of pure milk and be disappointed in the luxury of it, rather than enjoy all sorts of artificial meats and cakes..

    I'm sure we've all been to Church associated activities where even the church gives you powdered milk, fake chocolates, and cakes.. all sorts of substitutes. Now, I don't want to judge the church or anyone within it.. this is just a matter of personal diligence. if you really want to profit from fasting and do it honestly, then you would not accept substitutes or surrender to the flesh in a merely different way.

    I say this all loosely, of course. Some people have special circumstances or permission for whatever. And some people can't be as diligent in fasting as others, so it's understandable.. everyone should do what they can handle, so it's difficult to make generalizations.

    Peace.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Anastasi,

    Very valuable discourse.  I would just add that it is often necessary to take the advice of the Father Confessor in developing that discipline and diligence so not to fall into vainglory.

    I think you expressed my "Baklava Syndrome" in a nicer way.  I usually pronounce it:  'if it looks like baklava, and smells like baklava, and tastes like baklava, it is baklava".
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