aghabi everyone,
a few weeks ago mi freinds nd i were discssing religion during our lunch period. so it was me and this other girl who is brethren. she says it is a tipe of christianity juss like orthodox, catolic nd protestants. so she says we follow the bible exactly the way it is written so i don think they actually do n they may be talkin it literaly? now i told her id have the answers to her questons after april becuz as u can prob see i think it is teh ebst time to gather mi thoughts durinh holy week.
so she asked y do u have priests nd bishops..in the bible it says to have"elders''. so she has a grop of man in her church.
she aslo said that women r not suppposed to have a say. i meen in mi church in staten island girls noe almost everything yahni. tehy arent as powerful but tehy can talk?
she doesnt do teh sign of teh cross and said wen we say our father hoo art in heaven... we start with father not jesus. so she is s aying that jesus is not as important as the father. yet they r teh same one. nd in matt. chapter six Jesus Christ himself told u show to pray.
she also doesnt have an altar.. so pleeze guys help me outt here with quotes, sayings, truths, beliefs anything to prove wats rite. yet i dont want it to be a quarrel becuz no matter wat she wil prob stick with wat she thinks is rite.
noww.. just on friday me nd mi catholic frends wered dicussin gay ppl nd i was saying it was a sin. tehy r catolic but tehy presonaly dont like the bible.. tey think it is not a sin. yahni god created adam and eve not adam nd steve. so i said it was ritten in the bible but tehy were liek twelve aplostles wrote the bibel not God. i meen i noe that god rote it through them u noe? but ten i was asking taht brethren friend of mine nd she said it was a sin so yea
i am so sryy to bother uu guys nd if i relli confuesed u.. plzz help me out here thank u so much again
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mahraeel
plzzz p4m sister in Christ
Comments
Bishops are mentioned in the Bible in Philippians 1:1 "Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ,to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:" and also in Titus 1:7 (NKJ version) now in NIV it is "overseers" but that is basically another name for bishops.
About the sign of the cross, we do it because we are proud of it (Galatians 6:14) and also because it is the power of God (1corinth 1:18). So every time you do the sign of the cross you are asking help from the powerful God and do we not need that?
It is true that women should be loud in the church, but that does not mean they do not have a say or a ministry and the proof is that in Romans 16:1 Phoebe was a servant (deaconess) in the Church, which means that women can serve and have a say in the church.
Also I think your friend should read Hebrews 13:9 and Timothy 16:17 because her teachings are not congruent with teachings of the apostoles. Her "church" has teaching like that of (2timothy 4:3) which is just made to fit their desires since no where in the bible does God ever support homosexuality.
Hope that was helpful.
Be careful of her. Her intent is absolutely to mislead and to take from the fold of the Lord's Flock.
noww.. just on friday me nd mi catholic frends wered dicussin gay ppl nd i was saying it was a sin. tehy r catolic but tehy presonaly dont like the bible.. tey think it is not a sin. yahni god created adam and eve not adam nd steve. so i said it was ritten in the bible but tehy were liek twelve aplostles wrote the bibel not God. i meen i noe that god rote it through them u noe? but ten i was asking taht brethren friend of mine nd she said it was a sin so yea
This happens to all of us a lot. They say that being gay is part of a mentall illness. They just say that the bible is being unjust. But it says it many times in the bible (especialy in the pauline epistles) that homosexuals will not inherit eternal life.
+ Take care because they think that god hates gays but make sure you tell them that god hates Homosexuality itself not the people who are gay. That is why people need to leave homosexuality.
+ the problem that I faced was that every time you have a debate and you say it's wrong then they say that you are actively homophobic which counts as a serious offence.
+ It's just the same when people argue about God flooding the land in the time of NOah. They think that these people should have lived. In this position you can come back by telling them that God has sent many righteous people to try and make them repent ending with NOah but they just didn't listen.
The point is we need to always stick to our faith and keep it strong even if the whole world id against us, we can go against them (not violently).
bii the waay ilovesaintmark, well maybe i agree becuz she don do teh sign of teh cross but she believes in a good n she is very religious. don wory tho shes not changing mi religion. yet i juss dont liek it wen ppl think tehy r rite? anywayz any ither references, comments, thoughts, ideas...would be great
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
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mahraeel
plzzz p4m sister in Christ
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
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mahraeel
plzzz p4m sister in Christ
Please read the first half of the Nicene Creed concerning the relationship between the Father and the Son and the second half concerning the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father. When we worship the Father it goes to the Son and the Holy Spirit as well. They are not the same people as they have the same essence thus they are equal to one another (Essence is WHAT we are- God's is divine. Person is WHO you are- The Holy Trinity, 3 persons, one Essence). Now God has revealed to the Church that the Holy Spirit is related to the Father through PROCESSION (The Spirit comes from the Father-John 15:26) and the Son comes from the Father through SONSHIP (John 3:16). You can use many resources from the Holy Councils, the Bible and the Holy Fathers to further understand this.
Hope it helps :).
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
Pray for me.
srryy for all the questions=}
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
and anywayz does anyone have other verses to support all mi questions since teh first post???thxx
MayGBU
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
1 It came to pass on the eighth day that Moses called Aaron and his sons and the elders of Israel. 2 And he said to Aaron, “Take for yourself a young bull as a sin offering and a ram as a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the LORD. 3 And to the children of Israel you shall speak, saying, ‘Take a kid of the goats as a sin offering, and a calf and a lamb, both of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering,
Numbers 11, (The Seventy Elders)
16 So the LORD said to Moses: “Gather to Me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom you know to be the elders of the people and officers over them; bring them to the tabernacle of meeting, that they may stand there with you. 17 Then I will come down and talk with you there. I will take of the Spirit that is upon you and will put the same upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, that you may not bear it yourself alone.
Matthew 26
3 Then the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders of the people assembled at the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,
Since OT through NT time, I think there were always both priesthood and elders. Both made of special people having different important religious and/or social statutes and responsibilities. They had to be higher and lower ranks and these must be well organized otherwise the situation would become soon unproductive or even out of control.
In fact elders may mean also men of understanding, knowledge and higher statutes.
The priesthood is also comprised of chief priest, higher priest, etc.
GBU
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mahraeel
plzz p4m siste rin Christ
One request please can u keep ur English to the formal as much as possible. Ur simplified texts (or should I say mobile phone texting style) seem sometime a bit too hard to read. It helps if u read over what u wrote :D
Its actually good to know ur actively sharing about ur church and religion. Wahts wonderful now u have a great opportunity given to u by God this season of fasting to brush up on ur knowledge on some very important things about ur church that u have been surrounded with since ur childhood.
Firstly the priest hood which is one of the sacraments of our church is the most holy and blessed office that is given by our Lord himself. This is enhanced in our Coptic church since no one can become a priest on their own will. And order of ordaining a priest is the same in sister churches.
Secondly I am not going to start even telling u reason for the priest hood its use why it is there what and how his role has changed and what is it now.
The reason for that is that it I probably get old sitting here and typing it all up. :D
Instead I am going to give u some reading material which u can read till the end of Easter. Count ur self blessed for ur friend who has caused u to learn more.
There is a book written by our beloved Pope papa SHENOUDA III on the sacrament of priest here u will find all answers.
As for u friend did u say that she was Indian? tell her does she know that Saint Thomas went to India and preached there. He ordained priests and bishops there. And that after so many thousands of yrs they are there with the exact mass and beliefs as our mother church from Egypt. (of course in different languages) we can receive communion in their church. It is because of St Thomas that we have Christians in India not just Christian but orthodox Christian. We know this for certain for we mention his travel in the Katmarous for he had missed St Mary’s departure returning from India but he was blessed to see her assumption If u walked in the state of Kerala u ll see many Christian and church at every corner!!!!
http://www.ananthapuri.com/kerala-history.asp?page=christian
Don’t give it too much of ur time if she doesn’t respond to u and keeps asking questions going in circles then it is useless. Speak a little and if she responds positively then say more but if not then keep ur peace. Also a great book for both of u is “introduction to the Coptic church “ written by FR Tadros Yacoub Malaty.
Actually there are Indians in our church baptized in our orthodox church.I am sure u ll be able to locates the books but until u do here is some reading to get u started.
hope this helps God bless
priesthood, and the attempt to seize it and grant it as a
birthright to all, such rebellion was spearheaded by people who
wrongly interpreted "a kingdom of priests",
(Num 16:3) They gathered together against Moses and Aaron,
and said to them, "You take too much upon yourselves, for all
the congregation is holy, every one of them, and the LORD is
among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the
assembly of the LORD?"
Koorah, Dathan and Abeeram spearheaded a group of rebels,
grabbed the incensers and proceeded to offer incense. As
recorded in chapter 16 of the Book of Numbers. The Lord
commanded the earth to open up and swallow up all of them.
(Heb 5:4) And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who
is called by God, just as Aaron was.
Isa 61:1) "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, Because
the LORD has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the
poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim
liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to those
who are bound;
The Mission
(Luke 9:1-2) Then He called His twelve disciples together and
gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure
diseases. {2} He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and
to heal the sick.
(Luke 10:1) After these things the Lord appointed seventy
others also, and sent them two by two before His face into
every city and place where He Himself was about to go.
The Lord described their mission as of His own:
(John 20:21) So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As
the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
(John 17:18) "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent
them into the world.
The Lord also confirmed the necessity of this mission when He
said:
(Mat 9:38) "Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out
laborers into His harvest."
The bishops were the successors to the Apostles who were
appointed by the Holy Spirit as shepherds. The Holy Spirit
appoints and commissions. This is why the Lord Jesus said;
(Mat 9:38) "Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out
laborers into His harvest."
The Lord Jesus ordained His disciples granting them the Holy
Spirit and the Episcopal Authority. The Lord describes such
ordination as:
(John 20:20-23) When He had said this, He showed them His
hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they
saw the Lord. {21} So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you!
As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." {22} And when He
had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive
the Holy Spirit. {23} "If you forgive the sins of any, they are
forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
[15] This Holy Breath Still Upheld And Is Handed Over
From Generation To Generation
In the ordination of priests, the ordained opens his mouth while
the chief priest (bishop) breathes on him and says, “Receive the
Holy Spirit”. The new priest then recites a portion from psalm
119 which says “I opened my mouth and for myself, I attracted
a Spirit”.
[16] By The Laying Of Their Hands, The Apostles
Ordained Bishops, Priests And Deacons and Gave Them
The Holy Spirit
[3] Saint Paul Is Called Priest
Saint Paul called himself a Priest on various occasions. The
word Priest was repeated several times in the New Testament,
but it is regrettable to report that our brethren of the
Evangelical denominations have elected to replace the word
with “Elder”. The Roman Catholic Translation is more accurate.
In an attempt to discredit the priesthood, our Protestant
brethren translate the word ‘bishop’ or ‘priest’ to ‘elder’ and a
deliberately attempt to confuse the grade of bishop with the
grade of priest
Usually the word “Elder” is biblically reserved for the
priesthood in general. So an Elder could be a priest or a bishop
or a disciple.
(1 Tim 3:2-7) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of
one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior,
hospitable, able to teach; {3} not given to wine, not violent, not
greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
{4} one who rules his own house well, having his children in
submission with all reverence {5} (for if a man does not know
how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church
of God?); {6} not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he
fall into the same condemnation as the devil. {7} Moreover he
must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest
he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
[10] Some Say, Why are Today's Bishops Celibates?
Initially, marriage was permitted, to allow the suitable saints to
become bishops, especially that these people were already
married well before the rule of celibacy was canonised.
However we observe Saint Paul has enumerated the advantages
of being celibate, for the service of the Lord:
(1 Cor 7:8 ) But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is
good for them if they remain even as I am;
(1 Cor 7:32) But I want you to be without care. He who is
unmarried cares for the things of the Lord; how he may please
the Lord.
Celibacy was gradually accepted by the Church, and declared by
the Church as one of the its Canons at the Council of Nicea
(325AD).
Phil 1:1) Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, To
all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the
bishops and deacons:
Here we observe the special mention of the bishops and the
deacons, as a special group separate from the laity.
Again we ask: If all were equal and all were priests, why
differentiate?
Christ The Lord Is Still Our Lord And Master Even
thou He Was The Same As His Brethren In All Things, And
Was Not Ashamed To Call Us Brethren
(Heb 2:12) saying: "I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You."
(Heb 2:17) Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His
brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest
in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of
the people.
And in great humility the Lord told Mary Magdaline
(Mat 28:10) Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go
and tell My brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see
Me."
(John 20:17) Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have
not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and sa
to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to
My God and your God.'"
Out of humility, the Lord calls the disciples brethren, but this
did not entitle them to call Him a brother in return?
Based in brotherhood, would the apostle, or any one else dare
to claim equality with Christ?
In spite of Christ calling them brethren He still said:
(John 13:13-14) "You call me Teacher and Lord, and you say
well, for so I am. {14} "If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have
washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet.
Christ’s brotherhood to them did not preclude Him from being a
High Priest.
(Heb 2:17) Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His
brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest
in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of
the people.
Hence brotherhood does not institute equality.
thank you so much about the information u provided me. you have some great responses. do u have any others for the following questions? nd umm she isnt exactly orthodox. she is brethren christian. so yeah thanks so much karas7!!
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister i n CHrist
anything on the gay/lesbo converstaion. lol anything besides BECAUSE GOD CREATED adam and eve NOT adam and STEVE. lol thanks u guys are a great help. and again sorry for the messed up texting above. i am improving.
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mahraeel
plzzz p4m sister in Christ
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
"And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man." - Genesis 2:21-22
"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." - Genesis 2:24
I think this should be sufficient enough. If you need more, just ask.
How do we know orthodox is the true faith?
Well orthodoxy means correct teaching,correct life and correct witnessing. Orthodox is composed of two words Ortho and Doxa Ortho means straight forward and Doxa means glory. We are also saying that not because of pride but because of our church history. Secondly all the teachings of our church are from the Bible. Thirdly all the teachings of our church are derived from church traditions,sayings and interpretations of our church fathers.
When I read "during our lunch period" by Mahraeel, I inferred that she is in high school. With that being said, although she may convince her of our church, it's not like she'll go to church with her and get baptised. She's still a minor and probably her parents wouldn't let her.
Come on! Mahraeel wants to defend faith first of all then she wants to clarify things for her friend. By my judgements I think that this is a good service to people who are lost. I don't think that it has gone to a point when a discuusion about which church she will join emerges. She is just confused about christianity!
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6330.msg84647#msg84647 date=1206673298]
I think your just wasting your time mahraeel.
No! This is not a waste of time and I repeate this. If the apostles had followed that rule then we simply wouldn't have known anything about christianity. This is just lazy and somewhat selfish. If you have somthing to offer do you offer it or do you keep it and just can't be bothered about it.
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6330.msg84647#msg84647 date=1206673298]
Even if you were to convince her of all these things, what would be the next step?
You don't know. God can change people's hearts in seconds. Whatever happens we still need to give these people the true info so that someday God can act on them because of this and because of their desire to know him. Still it is harder without any support from us.
+ The important thing is that we need to do our part as well
Pray for me