hi everybody, has everyone heard about evolution?
well I would like to know who has a pdf. file or other computer
document about EVOLUTION BEING FALSE! & if he can send it to me because I am with
a fight about my Faith of christian against evolution if anyone could help me, it would be appreciated!
my e-mail is (
[email protected])
God bless you All! amen.
Comments
I hope this helps
http://www.coptichymns.net/module-library-viewpub-tid-1-pid-375.html
Please pray for me
In Christ
WAIT!!!!!!! Who said evolution is wrong??? No one ever said that evolution is wrong. I really think that the idea of evolution might have some to it. I mean maybe not us evolving from monkeys, but mankind had to adapt to his enviroment, where do you think races came from.?
Adapting is known as micro-evolution. IT is not really evolution. THis is accepted as animals adapt to their environment. Any other evolution is completly FAKE!
+ What do you mean by races? Of people? They came from adam. Noahs three children became fathers to nations and races. Like Egyptians and assyrians were the decendants of Ham and so on.
Evolution Exposed (Expanded Edition). There are many serious books online or by mail delivery but take just the scientific info. Christians should unite to refute evolution issues: we all experience at some time its destructive aspects, even when we're just debating together about it.
Evolution has also been discussed earlier in the forum here you'll find many links for many references as PDF or movies. Again we mainly take the scientific info and leave most of the rest.
About races, there is an idea about this here http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=6400.0
GBU
Whether you believe in evolution, or not it should not change one's faith because science and religion are not in a battle with one another. It doesn't matter whether God created the world through evolution or in seven days...God created the universe both ways, end of story. I don't see where the issue is, there is nothing wrong with saying "I know that God created the world, however the method in which He created is still in question. Some evidence points towards evolution and others don't...so what it doesn't matter"
All of the greatest scientists in history believed in God and felt that it was there calling to discover the equations God put into the universe. So let's not feed into the athiest argument that science and religion are at odds with one another, they are not...The church was never an authority on science, and it never claimed to be.
I brotherly suggest you do like I did that is ask the Lord if He created the universe in billions of years then why He told believers He did it in six days (each day with one morning and one night). God being of the highest Wisdom may indeed intentionally confuse willingly blinded scientists for the Glory of His Name but He'd never do that with His own flock of believers. He could also create the whole of the universe, seen and unseen, with the Power of His Word in a fraction of a second, or couldn't He? Referring to the first post by icocbechristos, if we (God forbid) doubt the strongest manifestation of the Lord's Almighty power that is: creation He made and described Himself and then the following events of life then death sentenced upon mankind - then how can we understand, reconcile with the Christian doctrine or believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior?
GBU
I brotherly suggest you do like I did that is ask the Lord if He created the universe in billions of years then why He told believers He did it in six days (each day with one morning and one night).
I agree with you, but we must not forget that a day to the Lord could be any number of years to us(i have heard both a thousand and a million, but who knows!! :D) I believe this was from a book by His Holiness on Creation(don't quote me on this, i will look it up and find out)
What is meant by Evolution
As Anba Bishoy requested so here it is. Evolution is the change of an organism or object to another. THere are six forms of this like:
+ macro-evolution (like animal, plant and human evolution)
+ micro-evolution (species variation)
+ Sterllar and planetery evolution (of planets and stars)
+ Three others but these ones are the most important.
Scientists believe that everything was created as an accident. There was a soup of different chemicals on earth. A spark passed through and life formed. THis lived in the waters then evolved to have lungs and so on until you have got the ape that evolved into a human.
The ignorance of science
Of the six forms of evolution only spicie variation (micro-evolution) has been observed and is proven. THis is like animals or humans who differ from one another eg. the facial features, hair colour...
+ Scientists got the idea of human evolution from this. THis is totaly ignorant as if two organisms reproduce then their off spring will still be of that spicie. It won't become any other animal. What you will get is variation like their colour of eyes, hair, fur (if they have any). You will not get another animal.
+ The bottom line is that evolution is a fraud. Put the fraud of evolution on google and you will get a lot of sites explaining from a scientific point of view or if you are a biologist please study this theory carefully to see it's validity.
Pray for me
[quote author=Lost link=topic=6421.msg84894#msg84894 date=1207048898]
Scientists believe that everything was created as an accident. There was a soup of different chemicals on earth. A spark passed through and life formed. THis lived in the waters then evolved to have lungs and so on until you have got the ape that evolved into a human.
When science points to an infitesimal chance we point to God...God is compatible with evolution, thats all I'm saying. God could have orchestrated the entire evolutionary process. No need to wage a war against the scientists, because evolution is the process of how we got here after being given all the required materials not how the required materials were made.
For example, evolution can tell us that there was "soup of different chemicals" and then a spark tunneled its way through and created created the first organism. And then over time, this organism evolved into many different organisms and then these different organisms kept on evolving into more intricate structures to the result of what we have today. What evolution fails in doing, is explaining where the "soup of chemicals" came from, or where the electrons that formed the "spark" originated from.
Evolution is method. And God has the power to use any method He pleases.
God told us we are made of dust... but He also explained with emphasis how He created us so differently (specifically not as this fantasy of being derived from any animal through the evolution fiction). You see to me evolution is in a way a kind of heresy and indeed a science fiction fantasy.
"I know evolution is not proven..." that's honest. It has not even been in the scientific plausible area (widespread irreducible complexities). If science can scientifically prove (for example) viruses and phages had evoluted into animal/plant and bacterial cells then I may start to consider it as "plausible". Only minor subspecies variations are scientifically proven and thus acceptable (micro evolution only). It is not. It is a philosophy and a belief.
GBU
Evolution would tie in much better, if animals and all the creatures of the earth had been created during these three days. They all would have went through evolution, and then once the days became 24 hours long, they would have been pretty close to what they appear to look like today. I hope I haven't confused anyone, I just wanted to clarify certain points in order to keep this thread accurate with the Bible's account of creation, which is what we must go by since it is the word of God.
I believe this is the reference you were referring to:
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
By the way, one way evolution does not click in my mind is that, let's say that human form "evolved", the body. How did we get an eternal spirit? Did that evolve too? How can you evolve a spirit? And if we evolved from monkeys, how on earth did God create us in His own image? If we believed evolution, we'd being making God and His Holy Word a liar. How can this be?
Also, it does not really make sense... How could animals and organisms who behave by instinct "evolve" to humans, creatures with free will, a mind, etc.
It doesn't make sense? Why don't other animals have those things?...
It is a most ridiculous theory indeed...
[quote author=duck link=topic=6421.msg84902#msg84902 date=1207058470]
No need to wage a war against the scientists, because evolution is the process of how we got here after being given all the required materials not how the required materials were made.
What are you saying? They are the ones trying to wage a war on us creationists. Have u seen them. THey basically call us stupid and dumb and want to wipe out creationism from the earth.
+ The process of how we got here is written clearly in the 1st chapter of Genesis. Please can you study this chapter carefully to see why evolution can't have happened.
The churches view
From what I know the church completely rejects evolution. His holiness has published a few books explaining why evolution isn't true.
+ The other day I was watching a program with his grace Metropolitan Anba BIshoy the secretary of the holy synod discussing why evolution is a fraud and he said that in animals like apes it can happen on a small scale but once they are half way between ape and human they just die out as they are not fully ape (no survival skills) or fully human (this means no spirit or huge brain) so they can't survive and this has been proved in Germany. THis proves that any type of evolution is fake and is a fraud.
+ The bottom line is THis topic has been discussed on huge numbers of threads here. Evolution is not acepted by the church wheather you like it or not.
+I really feel that on this thread, all we are doing is just recycling our posts from previous evolution threads which is worthless and we won't spiritually gain anything from this.
Please pray for me
Sorry, I formulated my words wrong. I meant to say that we shouldn't feel the need to vehemently deny evolution because we feel threatened by their accusations because there aren't any problems in the first place...since it's my personal belief a Christian can accept evolution as a plausible explanation to the creation of the world.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg84913#msg84913 date=1207079963]
Numerous outstanding scientists refuse this fabricated theory. Please speak only for yourself, when you say "because evolution is the process of how we got here".
So what. There are also many more outstanding scientists, Christians (catholic, protestant, etc..), and outstanding Christian Scientists (Francis Collins for example...lead the Human Genome Project) that accept evolution. The fact that certain people disagree with the particulars of the theory, in now way proves that the theory is not the least bit plausible. As a matter of fact, since there are an abundance of people who accept the theory, it should at least lead you to the conviction that it is at least somewhat plausible.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg84913#msg84913 date=1207079963]
God told us we are made of dust... but He also explained with emphasis how He created us so differently (specifically not as this fantasy of being derived from any animal through the evolution fiction). You see to me evolution is in a way a kind of heresy and indeed a science fiction fantasy.
+
[quote author=Lost link=topic=6421.msg84972#msg84972 date=1207145557]
+ The process of how we got here is written clearly in the 1st chapter of Genesis. Please can you study this chapter carefully to see why evolution can't have happened.
Your right he did create us differently. Lets study...
Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust"....
Whose to say it happened instantaneously? What an assumption!For example...I created a dish of pasta, it took time to make. If I had the powers of God, it could have been made instantaneously or it could have been made over time through some process...a method. In both instances I could say I created this dish of pasta and I wouldn't be wrong either way.
And who is to say that the other creatures weren't created from dust...think about it.All creatures share one thing in common, and that is the atoms which form us. So from a materialistic point of view we were all created using the same material, so we can then say creatures were created from the "dust".
If we were made in God's image and likeness than we would have something in common between us and God.
"and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life"
This is what distinguishes us from other creatures, is the breath of life. That is how we were created differently. God is spirit not flesh so what you would expect to be in common between us and God is not flesh...but spirit. And so materially speaking we are similar to the creatures of the world, but our difference is the breath of life, which was breathed into us.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg84913#msg84913 date=1207079963] It is not. It is a philosophy and a belief.
No. Evolution is a scientific theory, in this context the method in which God created the creatures of the earth, including humans.
Once again, this isn't to show evolution as fact...but as a plausible explanation that doesn't contradict scripture.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg84913#msg84913 date=1207079963] Amazing! who ever spoke of "to wage a war against scientists"?! We all do respect real science.
Sorry, I formulated my words wrong. I meant to say that we shouldn't feel the need to vehemently deny evolution because we feel threatened by their accusations because there aren't any problems in the first place...since it's my personal belief a Christian can accept evolution as a plausible explanation to the creation of the world.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg84913#msg84913 date=1207079963]
Numerous outstanding scientists refuse this fabricated theory. Please speak only for yourself, when you say "because evolution is the process of how we got here".
So what. There are also many more outstanding scientists, Christians (catholic, protestant, etc..), and outstanding Christian Scientists (Francis Collins for example...lead the Human Genome Project) that accept evolution. The fact that certain people disagree with the particulars of the theory, in now way proves that the theory is not the least bit plausible. As a matter of fact, since there are an abundance of people who accept the theory, it should at least lead you to the conviction that it is at least somewhat plausible.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg84913#msg84913 date=1207079963]
God told us we are made of dust... but He also explained with emphasis how He created us so differently (specifically not as this fantasy of being derived from any animal through the evolution fiction). You see to me evolution is in a way a kind of heresy and indeed a science fiction fantasy.
+
[quote author=Lost link=topic=6421.msg84972#msg84972 date=1207145557]
+ The process of how we got here is written clearly in the 1st chapter of Genesis. Please can you study this chapter carefully to see why evolution can't have happened.
Your right he did create us differently. Lets study...
Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust"....
Whose to say it happened instantaneously? What an assumption!For example...I created a dish of pasta, it took time to make. If I had the powers of God, it could have been made instantaneously or it could have been made over time through some process...a method. In both instances I could say I created this dish of pasta and I wouldn't be wrong either way.
And who is to say that the other creatures weren't created from dust...think about it.All creatures share one thing in common, and that is the atoms which form us. So from a materialistic point of view we were all created using the same material, so we can then say creatures were created from the "dust".
If we were made in God's image and likeness than we would have something in common between us and God.
"and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life"
This is what distinguishes us from other creatures, is the breath of life. That is how we were created differently. God is spirit not flesh so what you would expect to be in common between us and God is not flesh...but spirit. And so materially speaking we are similar to the creatures of the world, but our difference is the breath of life, which was breathed into us.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg84913#msg84913 date=1207079963] It is not. It is a philosophy and a belief.
No. Evolution is a scientific theory, in this context the method in which God created the creatures of the earth, including humans.
Once again, this isn't to show evolution as fact...but as a plausible explanation that doesn't contradict scripture.
The problem, though, is that we were created in His image and likeness. If you accept total evolution, you are saying one of two things:
1) God's image and likeness changes over time, and at one point it was that of an ape
2) Scripture is incorrect in saying we are made in His image and likeness.
I think you're trying too hard to reconcile a theory with theology. Maybe you're afraid of absolute statements and you want to keep an escape open in case you believe that one day evolution is proven as true.
The problem, though, is that we were created in His image and likeness. If you accept total evolution, you are saying one of two things:
1) God's image and likeness changes over time, and at one point it was that of an ape
2) Scripture is incorrect in saying we are made in His image and likeness.
I think you're trying too hard to reconcile a theory with theology. Maybe you're afraid of absolute statements and you want to keep an escape open in case you believe that one day evolution is proven as true.
Your equating God's image and Likeness with the way we look. That is not what it means...atlest to the extent of what I learned. From my understanding, being created in God's Image and Likeness means that we were given an intellect far superior than that of any animal. Since the Trinity does not have an "image" you can't say its the image of a human...
I am not trying to hard, its rather simple.
Remember, the church once believed that the earth was the center of the universe...
Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, Psalm 104:5 says, "the LORD set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place, etc."[74] (Wiki)
However, the church was backed by the science at the time as it supported this theory. Later on, science changed its view and so did the church on this matter.
Faith and Morals go to the Church and theologians...science to the Scientist
Remember, the church once believed that the earth was the center of the universe...
Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, Psalm 104:5 says, "the LORD set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place, etc."[74] (Wiki)
The psalms explain that the earth is established by the lord and it will stay. It wont be moved meaning that god cares for the world and nobody can take it away like the devil. IT also means that the earth will remain their till the last day and won't be destroyed before then.
+ AS for Ecclesiastes 1:5 it is talking about how it moves from our sight or point of view. WE only see the sun move across the sky then set then it returns to it's place again (east).
+++ About it being firm or can't move, the psalms don't mean it in a literal way. It is more symbolic to represent that GOd cares for us and nobody can 'move' the earth and take it away from God's love and mercy. THis is an assurance for us.
[quote author=duck link=topic=6421.msg85010#msg85010 date=1207177626]
However, the church was backed by the science at the time as it supported this theory. Later on, science changed its view and so did the church on this matter.
Faith and Morals go to the Church and theologians...science to the Scientist
The church doesn't change it's views. WE have a bible that we follow. WE can't change to accept any theory unless the bible accepts it. Evolution as a means doesn't contradict the bible (a lot) but it is built upon lies and frauds.
+ Science doesn't go to scientists when they FAKE stuff to get away from creation.
Sorry if I couldn't explain clearly or in detail. Please if there is anything to add or another contemplation about the verses please post them.
The thing is most people accept evolution as the true way we got here. IT is not a theory any more. What I don't get is why do scientists put up with it when it just about denies many laws of science like the first law of thermodynamics and the law of conservation of matter + Energy if they don't believe in God It is just rediculus.
duck: I know that to you you may believe that evolution can be a meathod that God created us and I respect your views but trust me (as an advice from a friend). If you start getting into it you won't get out as a christian. You will be pulled away by this frauds and false 'theory'. God created it as he blew into dust. If it was by evolution fine (although i do not agree) but what is this going to benifit your eternal life. There are more things in life that have the priority over how we got created like the salvation of our souls. Let it not bother you.
Pray for me
let me requote it...
[quote author=icocbechristos link=topic=6421.msg84779#msg84779 date=1206926882]
hi everybody, has everyone heard about evolution?
well I would like to know who has a pdf. file or other computer
document about EVOLUTION BEING FALSE! & if he can send it to me because I am with
a fight about my Faith of christian against evolution if anyone could help me, it would be appreciated!
my e-mail is ([email protected])
God bless you All! amen.
All I am saying is that you do not need to fight and waste your time on something that isn't necc. for your salvation because evolution doesn't contradict anything the story of creation tells us. "Fine evolution could be true, so what it doesn't matter because it doesn't oppose scripture"...
It only contradicts when you interpret Gen 2 literally, but who is to say it does have to be taken literally? I can say I created a pan of pizza from dough, sauce and cheese. Will you argue that I made it instantaneously? Sure I could have if I was God, or you could say I made it over time, another option God could have chosen. The elaboration to this is in an earlier post, scroll up to check it out.
It's a fraud for scientists to pass evolution as an absolute fact as you said, because a theory is called a theory for a reason. However when almost every renown biologist accepts evolution, and with many religious denominations accepting evolution to be a plausible explanation (Christians, Jews, Mulsims)... you can only think to give some credence to the theory...something about it has to make sense to convince people.
Do not take my opinion for it, take his (a converted ex-atheist researcher) watch these 3:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/video/ondemand/
Creation, Evolution and Deception Dr. Monty White part 1 part 2 part 3
then watch the next pack:
Origin of the Species Dr. Terry Mortenson part 1 part 2 part 3
if you're at school watch also this (amazing):
Inherently Wind Dr. David Menton part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4
Dear icocbechristos,
I can think how you would wisely deal with this issue: by believing it's wrong does not mean you cannot study it or answer question about the subject from the evolution perspective (because you did understand it and had studied it) to get your marks OK and pass your tests. Do not discuss it with higher authority and never deny God. Never deny you're Christian and never deny Jesus Christ. The main thing is you surely know evolution theory as currently put and taught is wrong. Later you can discuss it but only with those likely to respect your views, reciprocally (even only in the scientific aspects it's a very fragile theory that's why they don't need further complication from religious people). You'll be amazed how brain washed people react when they confront scientific method's established scientific truths versus inferences derived by circular reasoning. You can be a Christian and a scientist at the same time. You have free will and you are free to believe in Christ. No one can take that from you unless you allow them.
GBU
Do not take my opinion for it, take his (a converted ex-atheist researcher) watch these 3:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/video/ondemand/
Creation, Evolution and Deception Dr. Monty White part 1 part 2 part 3
then watch the next pack:
Origin of the Species Dr. Terry Mortenson part 1 part 2 part 3
if you're at school watch also this (amazing):
Inherently Wind Dr. David Menton part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4
Dear icocbechristos,
I can think how you would wisely deal with this issue: by believing it's wrong does not mean you cannot study it or answer question about the subject from the evolution perspective (because you did understand it and had studied it) to get your marks OK and pass your tests. Do not discuss it with higher authority and never deny God. Never deny you're Christian and never deny Jesus Christ. The main thing is you surely know it's wrong. Later you can discuss it but only with those likely to respect your views, reciprocally (even only in the scientific aspects it's a very fragile theory that's why they don't need further complication from religious people). You'll be amazed how brain washed people react when they confront scientific method's established scientific truths versus inferences derived by circular reasoning. You can be a Christian and a scientist at the same time. You have free will and you are free to believe in Christ. No one can take that from you unless you allow them.
GBU
You say evolution is a fabrication...it would be if its proven false, however since it isn't proven false (look below) then you can't say its a fabrication.
While I do appreciate the effort you put into finding these guys, it doesn't really mean much. The debaters are oddball scientists.
Let me ask you a question, do you accept the fact that the world is only 6000 years old? Well guess what, every one of thescientists you list (including the website) supports the young earth theory. Our church denounces it, yet you are all for these guys?
Evolution is not proven to be false, because if it was then mainstream science wouldn't accept it. However, it hasn't been proven to be absolutley true either. Almost every single biologist accepts evolution to be the best theory that accurately explains how humans and other species came to be. Not only that but you have an overwhelming percentage in the scientific community (61% accept evolution....http://www.livescience.com/history/080102-evolution-teaching.html). And these are the people who think evolution is true! Imagine the percentage of people who consider it to be plausible??
So you have almost the entire community accepting evolution to be true or plausible (This includes many religious people aswell as mentioned above) and your going to rest your argument on the overwhelming minority? Particularly on a website with three people who believe the earth is 6000 years old? If they can argue the world is 6000 years old then it just proves that anybody can argue anything...
Check out the people who believe the earth is flat
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=9471434dc95b353e02b4e0bb09128eba&;
- nothing, which evolutionists suppose to be responsible for universe creation and what's in it, really means nothing
- it's against the first two fundamental laws of thermodynamics
- quantum theory cannot be proven by the scientific method (it can only be theoretical)
- the fossil record is inconsistent
- radio carbon dating is totally inaccurate beyond 300 000 years (and well before this number)
- Adam was created about 6000 years ago (traced and calculated) and not millions of years
- Eve had to be created (could not appear by chance)
- Adam and many men lived about 600 to 900 years (or may be 600 millions years?!)
- the catastrophic total submerging flood covering Earth well above mount Everest (with all the associated weather, surface, underground, gaseous cataclysms) occurred at the specified time of Noah, with a date that can be accurately traced and calculated
- sudden appearance and stasis of species (with all the added huge information and know how)
- numerous species had to appear in both their male and female versions at the same time and in the same area to be able to reproduce and survive
- every species had to be created, otherwise you would find ALL the (fabricated) missing links in billions of specimens in the so called fossil record
- the expected (I meant the long awaited) intermediate missing links (if they were at all present) could not be fit to survive and reproduce at most stages of their alleged evolution
- presence of existing (and extinct) intractable irreducible complexities in all levels and fields that undermine all branches of evolution
- "living fossils" whose ancestors were estimated to have appeared hundreds of millions of years ago show not even a slight evolutionary change
- statistically evolution theory is impossible
- most inferences in evolution can be scientifically criticized, re-evaluated and rectified over time
- evolution has not been proven by the scientific method (and cannot so will not)
- evolution is immoral and leads to chaos
etc.
These were really just few headings as food for thought and are by no means meant to be the comprehensive list against evolution.
GBU
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85059#msg85059 date=1207245025]
Let me state just few of the numerous scientific reasons against the theory of evolution:
- nothing, which evolutionists suppose to be responsible for universe creation and what's in it, really means nothing
- it's against the first two fundamental laws of thermodynamics
- quantum theory cannot be proven by the scientific method (it can only be theoretical)
You mean only the 2nd law of thermodynamics..Well the second law of thermodynamics only applies to a closed system...can't apply it here.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85059#msg85059 date=1207245025]
- the fossil record is inconsistent
- the expected (I meant the long awaited) intermediate missing links (if they were at all present) could not be fit to survive and reproduce at most stages of their alleged evolution
Hmm, so if something isn't found that means it doesn't exist? Sorry, nice try.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85059#msg85059 date=1207245025]
- radio carbon dating is totally inaccurate beyond 300 000 years (and well before this number)
Radiocarbon dating isn't the only method available
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85059#msg85059 date=1207245025]
- presence of existing (and extinct) intractable irreducible complexities in all levels and fields that undermine all branches of evolution
There have been many scientists who have reduced the "irreducible", check out the wiki article and read the criticism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity#cite_note-49
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85059#msg85059 date=1207245025]
- the catastrophic total submerging flood covering Earth well above mount Everest (with all the associated weather, surface, underground, gaseous cataclysms) occurred at the specified time of Noah, with a date that can be accurately traced and calculated
What does Noah have to do with this?
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85059#msg85059 date=1207245025]
- most inferences in evolution can be scientifically criticized, re-evaluated and rectified over time
What an opinion!
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85059#msg85059 date=1207245025]
- evolution has not been proven by the scientific method (and cannot so will not)
So everything must be proven by the scientific method for you to accept it? Ok, well lets see. Just because something cannot be proven by the scientific method (in this particular case, because nobody can live over a few billion years) doesn't mean it cannot be true. The scientific method has limits, and its apparent when you apply the scientific method to itself. Can the scientific method prove that the scientific method is true? Uh, wierd eh? No it cannot, hence the scientific method is limited.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85059#msg85059 date=1207245025]
- evolution is immoral and leads to chaos
Darwinism, is immoral and which leads to chaos. Darwinism is the movement in which people like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens use evolution to undermine religious belief to promote athiesm. It is when the scientists step out of their boundary and fuse evolution with psychology and philosophy, to create what is called Darwinism. Hitler (and many other dictators) infused the "survival of the fittest" biological hypothesis to their political ideology which resulted in the ethnic cleansing of the Jews in WWII...Darwinism is the culprit, not evolution.
Evolutionary theory isn't complete and scientists have never disagreed with that. Just because the young-earth-creationists can point out the gaps in the theory, doesn't disprove it whatsoever...just that the theory isn't complete.
(otherwise everything within or smaller is an open system) they exist but only in delusional minds (missing links exist non scientifically as a belief, a myth)
Tell me duck if I am wrong, tick Y/N (let's read Genesis):
*God created the Earth first (planned for living creatures) then He created the Sun?
*God created birds before land reptiles (and perhaps birds evolved into reptiles)?
*God created all kinds of flying creatures in the same day (includes all taxonomy concerning any flying creatures, phylla genera species etc. insects birds mammals as ex.)?
GBU
a "closed system" is actually the whole universe as one huge package
(otherwise everything within or smaller is an open system)
Your right the universe is a thermodynamically closed system. But that doesn't rule out evolution. The second law of thermodynamics says that the entropy of the universe is ALWAYS increasing. As a whole, the entropy must increase...that does not mean that entropy must increase in all sectors of the universe. For example: entropy can decrease here on earth by 500 (the number is only used for the example) but then increase in mars by 1000.
What is the net increase in the entropy of the universe?
1000-500 = 500...
So you see, a decrease in entropy is perfectly acceptable and doesn't violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Only a NET decrease violates the law.
A more real example is the Earth. The Earth is a thermodynamically open system, in that it constantly receives energy from the outside in the form of solar light. Life on earth is capable of using this free energy to do work, and move to a higher state of order, of organization. But as the Earth uses this energy to bring more order, the universe as a whole is experiencing a greater increase in disorganization.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85064#msg85064 date=1207256819]
they exist but only in delusional minds (missing links exist non scientifically as a belief, a myth)
Just because the people over in AnswersInGenesis (the "Earth is only 6000 years old" bunch) says there isn't doesn't prove anything. Theres a plethora of museums, websites, biologists, scientists, and theologians who say there are transitional fossils. I know I don't have the scientific acumen to state without a shadow of a doubt that all of them are wrong...do you? I'll take a guess, probably not. So all we can do is google search some websites that claim to refute each other and just repost them here. For example heres one the evolution of the horse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
While we are at it might aswell debate Quantum Mechanics, or maybe String Theory...your pick
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=6421.msg85064#msg85064 date=1207256819]
*God created the Earth first (planned for living creatures) then He created the Sun?
*God created birds before land reptiles (and perhaps birds evolved into reptiles)?
*God created all kinds of flying creatures in the same day (includes all taxonomy concerning any flying creatures, phylla genera species etc. insects birds mammals as ex.)?
Interpreting Genesis literally is what we are debating! But to show you that you can't take the chronology literal, read chapter 1 where it says that animals were made before Adam AND Eve (1:20-28) and then in chapter 2 it says that Adam existed before the animals were created and then eve coming later (2:15-25). Now your going to pull the answersingenesis argument and say that it was translated wrong! Well thats debatable. A majority of translations leave it the way it was and don't render it the way in which the NIV translates it. So who knows whose right.
Now you are left with 3 options:
a) Evolution is wrong because God made the earth in 6 24 hour days EXACTLY described in Genesis.
b) Genesis should definitely be interpreted allegorically because evolution is fact.
c) Evolution is not fact but its well supported. So lets see if Genesis can work with Evolution and if it does...well then its a possibility.
Option C, the person understands that the way God created things doesn't matter at all to his/her salvation...so whether it is by 6 literal days (possibility...low chance due to virtually no scientific support) or through a long process involving billions of years (another possibility, but more support from science), or maybe through some unknown method we don't know for sure, it doesn't matter to him/her; let science figure it out, either way in the end God created all of it.